Player Features and Ideas Discussion

If your 210-man corp is incapable of exploding a single T3 cruiser, what makes you think you could explode 204 T3 cruisers on a station?

While I agree that station games that allow aggression without commitment to a fight are lame, I don't know what that has to do with the war mechanic at all.

OP, if a 4 man corp wardecs your 210 man corp, and is winning, that's just a sign that you either lack proper tactics, organization and skills.

The war system IS broken, but not for reasons you listed.
If you complain about him running when faced with a much bigger fleet, then my question is, you wouldn't?
Everyone that isn't looking for lulz or a whelp retreats in the face of a superior force, unless they have a strategic objective to achieve.

I wardec corporations in much the same way he does. I play almost always completely solo, taking on much larger groups of players. Who, if they'd organize themselves properly, would be able to easily take me down. The reason why they don't is because I play to my strengths. I don't fight on their terms, I strike where they're the weakest and I do NOT fight fair. Guerrilla warfare at its best.
If an opponent has superior numbers, you either wait for those numbers to decrease, or you influence the situation in such a manner that his numbers lower down to a manageable level.

Why should you be immune to attack by groups smaller than you? I don't see how group size is linked to whether your opponent is a "pro player" or not. A group of 5 new alpha players could wardec you too if they were brave enough and wanted to. Shouldn't they be allowed to challenge you? And a group of 200 hundred experienced veterans could challenge you under your proposal, and you would have zero chance against them if you can't handle a single "pro player".

There are no such thing as "easy kills" in this game. Don't let that carebear ideology poison your thinking. There are just kills. Everyone is at risk to everyone else. There will always be players and groups who fight smart and with purpose, picking only the engagements most heavily in their favour. Your strategy against them is to bait them into a fight where they cannot escape, or to bring something they do not expect and are unable to handle. Also, don't fall into the classic trap of thinking killmails mean much at all. Don't be afraid of giving them up if the odds are in your favour and don't take them as the sole indicator if you won a fight. If your opponent takes to cowering in a station you have held the field and won the battle.

Eve Online is more of a war simulator than a fleet fight simulator. Rarely, if ever, do two equal sides line up on each side of a grid and have an honourable battle to the death. The real game is shaping and choosing the sites, times, and sides of a battle so that the outcome is in your favour and furthers your greater interests in amassing power in New Eden.

So -1 to your proposal. Guerrilla wars and wars of harassment against a stronger opponent are one of the main uses of a war in a game where you can choose not to undock. The only other major one would be for shooting structures in highsec, and your citadels and engineering complexes should definitely not be immune to attack by any group smaller than yourself.

Figure out what he likes to go after, then rig one up with tackle and tank out the wazoo while the rest of your fleet waits cloaked or elsewhere. Once he shows his ugly face, scram him and web him and warp in/decloak. -1 T3.

A group of 2 or 3 veteran players / characters warps into a belt in high sec. tackle and kill a first week newbie mining in his venture.
A solo player in a frigate or a destroyer locates and kills an Ishtar full of drones they caught while ratting in nul sec.
Do you really expect me to believe that both of these situations require the same amount of player skill and effort to accomplish?

While I understand the basic idea you are trying to convey here the simple reality is that there are easy kills in this game and the newbie in his venture is just one of them.

Of course some kills require more effort, coordination, patience, skill or luck. Not all kills are created equal. That is not the point. The point is that dismissing certain kills as "easy" as some sort of pejorative is not productive or useful. It attempts to offload the blame onto the attacker for what is ultimately your responsibility:

8 Golden Rules For Eve Online

Worse, the "easy kill" meme ignores the core idea of the game which is players shooting each other and losing ships to each other. Yes, I know many vocal players like to come to the forums and loudly proclaim that is not why they play the game or what they like to do, but the game was designed on this fundamental idea that we are all each other's content. If you enter the carebear echo chamber that people are "bad" for indulging in "easy" kills, you are always going to feel the victim and never completely at ease in this game.

Everyone can play Eve how they want, but one should not fall into the trap of blaming a loss on the motives of another player. You are completely in control of what you undock into the unsafe environment that is New Eden, and you cannot know what motivates the other player, or how much effort he or she has put into catching you with your pants down, nor does it ultimately matter. Besides, it's much more satisfying to chase a wardeccer into a station (like the OP and his friends did to their credit) and look down on him as a coward, rather than to think of yourself as a victim of someone trying to farm "easy kills" and hide in a station yourself when you are playing a game where we are purposely put at risk to each other so that we can capitalize on mistakes we all make from time-to-time. Just get out there and do your thing to make your ISK (while taking precautions) and laugh at the failure of your opponent to stop you and quit worrying about what motivates him or how "easy" he likes his kills to be.

Honestly, some of my most profitable kills have been the "easiest" and some of my "hardest" - those that required the most stalking, patience and coordination with other players have lost me ISK. But if I am just looking for ISK, I want my kills to be as "easy" as possible. Why I am shooting you doesn't matter to you as a potential target. You just need to defend yourself from me like you do from everyone else (and exactly like I have to do when I am gathering and building things).

Calling other players on their mistakes (or going out looking for them or even to provoke players into making one) may not always be the honourable and noble space samurai thing to do, but it is an intended and sometimes lucrative way to get ahead in this game. Also, many players find it fun.

That all said, while I think trying to balance wars based on player numbers is silly, I sympathize with those trying to dislodge a station camper. CCP really should look at adding the new Upwell docking mechanics to NPC stations. The reality is though that with proper insta-bookmarks and scouts, there is very little a single hub warrior who never leaves the docking ring can do to your corp. Set up a trap for when and if he comes after you and stop wasting your time fighting him on his terms. Players never have to undock to fight you, so don't waste your time.

yeah sounded like him.
just call him some variation of "bitter ginsoaked old lady" and enjoy him embarrassing himself in local

The take away lesson here is: Don't engage in station games.
bait, isolate, overwhelm. thats the trick.


most everything else (barr neutral logi) is actually experience+numbers+intell.

station games are bullshit, and irritating ill agree but war is something every corp has to reconcile with.

that said wars do infact need some work and while i dont think this is the solution you have highlighted one of the issues ive spoken about before,
that being the gulf of nuanced experiance between a dedicated (if gobbyshite) pvp group and the average corp.

If anything, make it a LOT cheaper for smaller groups to wardec big entities, and more expensive vice versa. At least that way you might get the bigger groups breaking up a bit.

First they need to change name from High Security Space to High CONCORD Bribery Space

I dont know why we have wars in HS space that is sooo broken if aliance get war dec what is difference between HS and null? no difference at all (except HS have shity isk income)
They need to move pvp in low and null space and for HS leave just duel option...

Nv.