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Have Multiboxers and Botting ruined Eve Online?
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Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#61 - 2017-03-26 13:32:59 UTC
Dunno regarding ore anoms - not something I've spent too much time paying attention to - they were there around early 2015ish when I stopped playing.
Salvos Rhoska
#62 - 2017-03-26 13:59:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
I cant find anything on google.
I also noticed the lack of HS Ghost sites.

I wasnt paying attention, but now realize I havent seen them anymore.

Wtf happened to ore anomalies and HS ghost sites?


Implement:
http://imgur.com/Klh4hzj

Bots will be confounded.
Lazy miners will earn less.
Attentive miners will earn more.

Very simple, and fair.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Beast of Revelations
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#63 - 2017-03-26 14:18:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Beast of Revelations
Quote:
making mining more interactive can resolve this problem?
basically changing the "semi-afk" style that is required right now to mine :)


They were sure quick to do this to carrier ratting, and did it the wrong way in my opinion by nerfing fighters. But the point is, why nerf carrier ratting but leave afk mining alone? You couldn't actually safely carrier rat afk, and it actually did require some level of activity and clicking. Was still nerfed.

EDIT: I want to clarify - I'm not saying ISK from carrier ratting didn't need to be nerfed - maybe it did, maybe it didn't. I'm saying 1) I was against the way it was done, and 2) why was ISK from carrier ratting deemed too excessive for too little work, while ISK from bot mining is completely AFK?
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#64 - 2017-03-26 14:23:11 UTC
Multiboxers to me are a legitimate playstyle, they have to play both accounts, and they pay twice what I do so there's that.

I've roamed FW Minmatar/Amarr lowsec before and couldn't find literally anything to fight for over an hour until I came across two guys in their pirate/navy faction Frigates to fight my Incursus. Since this was the only two other players in lowsec at the time, I did the cat/mouse thing. I admit I'm not good at this game but eventually I had seen a Punisher on dscan, thought maybe one of them shipped down for me; which is true but the punisher ended up being one of their alts, 3x neuts and a scram. Eventually I died.

There's also cloaky griffin alt guy. ECM is a cool game mechanic for sure. Especially when you think you've got a Frigate 1v1.

Or the guy who bubble camps with THREE Stratios' by himself. lol

Ruined Eve Online? Well yeah I've been pretty put off before but I have my game and they have their's I don't know what other lesson I can learn from this. Other than maybe Eve sucks SmileP

I've only seen the botting thing a few times but I guess I am not sure how I feel either way - don't have much experience

@lunettelulu7
Salvos Rhoska
#65 - 2017-03-26 14:24:13 UTC
Beast of Revelations wrote:
But the point is, why nerf carrier ratting but leave afk mining alone?.


One step at a time.

Carrier ratting largely only applies to NS.

AFK mining is a more complex widespread issue, but I agree it must be mitigated.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Yiole Gionglao
#66 - 2017-03-26 14:24:48 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Rroff wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Something like this, but where the player doesnt know which hex is which for % value, except by process of elimination, as the hex % value remains the same per rock/ice.

http://imgur.com/Klh4hzj


It would be better to make it part of the setup process rather than the mining itself - i.e. actually having to probe down higher value asteroids, etc. minigames as part of the actual harvesting process itself would be incredibly tedious for what is already largely a boring activity.


1) Legit question:
I was away for awhile, and it just hit me I havent seen any ore anomalies since my return.
Did CCP remove them, or did I forget that I filtered them or something?

2) Probing has already become too much of the game.
I get what you mean, but probing itself gets tedious, especially when it starts to be a part of everything.

3) In my proposal, and the image, all you need to do, is click a hex.
Simple as that.

+/-3% per cycle is substantial over time, but its hardly crippling.
If you care enough, you can adjust your hex target on your next cycle.


The real harm from bots is that they can (and will) mine 23.5/7. It doesn't matter what amount of yield they lose, since they mine longer than a human pilot could/would/should. All in all, they're wasting miner cycles on suboptimal asteroids, wasting a whole cycle to mine those last 23 units of veldspar... sho what? They will keep going on until they mine 100% of every rock.

EVE rewards n+1. That also is true for time, a bot mining 8, 10 or 12 horus a day (whatever is the threshold so CCP's automated system doesn't detects abnornal account activity) will easily outperform a miner who might do it for 2, 3 or 4 hours. And whatever cap CCP could palce on time or yield, would hurt true miners more than botters who might just pay a second account. Make it impossible to PLEX ana ccount with mining, and you hurt paying customers for nothing... it makes no sense.

Specially now when it's CCP itself who spawns bot fleets... Roll

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an alpha / And so it's you
Salvos Rhoska
#67 - 2017-03-26 14:29:58 UTC
Yiole Gionglao wrote:
The real harm from bots is that they can (and will) mine 23.5/7. It doesn't matter what amount of yield they lose, since they mine longer than a human pilot could/would/should. All in all, they're wasting miner cycles on suboptimal asteroids, wasting a whole cycle to mine those last 23 units of veldspar... sho what? They will keep going on until they mine 100% of every rock.


I know.

My proposal doesnt "kill" bots.
Only CCP can do that.

I just aim to mitigate the advantage of bots, such that a present player can earn +3% for the time they are online.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Cherry Sulphate
ojingo
#68 - 2017-03-26 14:39:13 UTC
single shard; single account.
Salvos Rhoska
#69 - 2017-03-26 14:48:30 UTC
Cherry Sulphate wrote:
single shard; single account.

Cutting off multiple accounts, would destroy CCP income.

I myself have multiple accounts.
If you make it impossible for me to use the accounts I have sunk money, time and effort into, wtf am I supposed to do with them?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#70 - 2017-03-26 14:53:14 UTC
Cherry Sulphate wrote:
single shard; single account.


Easy to get around with a minimum of effort and very little performance impact. The skills and knowledge are already in use today.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
Cherry Sulphate
ojingo
#71 - 2017-03-26 14:54:10 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Cherry Sulphate wrote:
single shard; single account.

If you make it impossible for me to use the accounts I have sunk money, time and effort into, wtf am I supposed to do with them?


:shrug:
i don't honestly care.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#72 - 2017-03-26 14:54:15 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Beast of Revelations wrote:
But the point is, why nerf carrier ratting but leave afk mining alone?.


One step at a time.

Carrier ratting largely only applies to NS.

AFK mining is a more complex widespread issue, but I agree it must be mitigated.


AFK highsec force auxiliary mining is where it is at

http://imgur.com/BKyQ86i
Salvos Rhoska
#73 - 2017-03-26 15:18:56 UTC
What am I supposed to be looking at here.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2017-03-26 15:51:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
To address OP's title question: no.

Why? Because the number of activities in EvE where massive multiboxing and botting is beneficial is very small. It's a niche thing, and at best it brings in extra cash for CCP. Also I would say it's not affecting the average single account player ... I know because I'm playing competitive with one char in areas often accused of botting.

Brains still outperforms multiboxes in most areas... and remember if you do not use additional accounts you also do not need to rake in the ISK to PLEX and outfit them.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#75 - 2017-03-26 15:53:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Galaxy Pig
Everyone who is concerned about this issue needs to enlist in the New Order today.

Don't just complain on forums, do something about it!

Highsec is worth fighting for!

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#76 - 2017-03-26 16:11:23 UTC
Trebon Luap wrote:



I am saying they are hurting Eve in the way that their game play affect the new to Eve player base. New and not so new players see and compete with these multiboxers and find that there is no way to compete with them on any footing. Then because of this, these people leave Eve and the player base does not grow.


Nonsense.
Salvos Rhoska
#77 - 2017-03-26 16:21:45 UTC
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Trebon Luap wrote:



I am saying they are hurting Eve in the way that their game play affect the new to Eve player base. New and not so new players see and compete with these multiboxers and find that there is no way to compete with them on any footing. Then because of this, these people leave Eve and the player base does not grow.


Nonsense.


For readers information, Nicolai Serkanner was one of the prime defenders of ISBoxing and keybroadcasting back when the issue was fought.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#78 - 2017-03-26 17:39:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
I think part of the problem is the lack of things that push players to work together early on - if people are fleeted up mining for instance they are almost inevitably deep in wormholes or nullsec, etc.

(Not ignoring that there are some highsec industry corps, etc.)
Ded Akara
Doomheim
#79 - 2017-03-26 17:43:27 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Ded Akara wrote:
If you can't be bothered to do what it takes to counter them, then you're clearly not that bothered by them, or you're just not that invested into the game anyway.


Are you talking about key broadcasting, or multiple accounts?


Anyone using multiple accounts to play.
Ded Akara
Doomheim
#80 - 2017-03-26 17:46:18 UTC
Beast of Revelations wrote:
Quote:
making mining more interactive can resolve this problem?
basically changing the "semi-afk" style that is required right now to mine :)


They were sure quick to do this to carrier ratting, and did it the wrong way in my opinion by nerfing fighters. But the point is, why nerf carrier ratting but leave afk mining alone? You couldn't actually safely carrier rat afk, and it actually did require some level of activity and clicking. Was still nerfed.

EDIT: I want to clarify - I'm not saying ISK from carrier ratting didn't need to be nerfed - maybe it did, maybe it didn't. I'm saying 1) I was against the way it was done, and 2) why was ISK from carrier ratting deemed too excessive for too little work, while ISK from bot mining is completely AFK?


Because there's no such thing as 'AFK mining' it requires clicking.

AFK carrier ratting is a whole different story.