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EVE New Citizens Q&A

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Ship/Weapon and Skill Selection

Xavier Morientes
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2017-03-24 08:54:38 UTC
I need a bit advice to chose what kind of ship and weapon should use. As much as I understand, there is no ship/skill restriction for an Omage Clone and I have no disadvantages to start cross training because I'm at the start of the way (Is that true or should I create a new Caldari alt if I choose to use missiles? Actually this is the first question What? ).

I prefer to work as long range DPS in MMOs. I like to be a pure demage dealer rather than crowd controller. I don't like pets, they usually behave much like children, hard to control and guess what to do next.

As much as I understand, pets are drones in new Eden and Gallente ships heavily use them. What do you recommend me? Does Gallente has convenient ships for me or should I start cross training immediately? If so, which way?
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#2 - 2017-03-24 09:26:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregorius Goldstein
Don't start a new pilot. There are great pirate ship that require you to train the ships of two races anyway.

Gallente uses Drones the most, then come the Amarr ships, then Minmatar and Caldari use Drones the least.

Most players see Caldari as the best (or at least most anyoing) crowed controllers, followed by Gallente and Amarr while Minmatar get a bonus to Target Painters that are no real CC but rather "moar DPS" modules.

I prefer Minmatar ships for range DPS and there are even better ones that use Gallente and Minmatar skills. There are some Gallente ships that can work with Railguns as long range Gunboats. Try a Brutix but make sure you are always at the edge of your optimal as tracking will be bad when enemy ships get close to you.

A lot of players go for the Machariel and/or Rattlesnake on the long term.. And as you don't like Drones (the Snake is all about the drones) and the Macha needs all Gallente and Minmatar T1 ships up to at least level 3 anyway you can't go wrong with any of them.
Ralph King-Griffin
Dissidence Dawn
#3 - 2017-03-24 10:26:50 UTC
well as your a paid account you can and should cross train.

Drones are more like a pack of angry squirrels than children tbh.
squirrels with guns granted but squirrils regardless.

almost every ship in eve uses them to some degree or another so training into them is definitely a smart thing to do,
particularly if you like long range dps because if something gets close to you they're basically all you have.
here's why (hint: tracking mechanics)

aside from telling you not to neglect training drones (even if your not going to focus on them) pretty much all the races have boats good at long range
#4 - 2017-03-24 11:18:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Schnozymandias
Omegas can train any skill, so there is nothing stopping you from cross-training. And as mentioned above, cross-training is in fact a pre-requisite for accessing pirate faction ship lines.

I have two questions for you: are you intending to train primarily for PvE or PvP activities? And, if the latter, are you interested in solo, small-gang or fleet fighting?

Every weapon system in EVE has a long-range option. Drones differ somewhat from the other weapon classes in that they can be destroyed, and that they have a single long-range option (sentry drones, usually used by the larger ships) where the other systems have both short- and long-range options at each size class.

For PvE activities, drones and missiles require the least amount of pilot interaction and are thus preferred tools for PvE (PvE can get rather stale over time). In larger fleet combat, however, turret systems are often preferred because of their instant damage application. One of the problems with using long-range weapon systems (excepting those used within point range) for PvP is that their range can exceed that of tackle modules, meaning unless you have some way to pin your target down that target can simply escape. If you are in a gang or fleet with deficated tackle pilots this is not an issue, but if you are a solo sniper it's something you should consider.

For ranged fighting you would likely want to train Caldari, as a good number of their standard and specialized ships are bonused for missile or hybrid turret range. Caldari ships below battleship size are pretty popular in the meta right now, too.
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#5 - 2017-03-24 11:39:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregorius Goldstein
Schnozymandias wrote:

For PvE activities, drones and missiles require the least amount of pilot interaction and are thus preferred tools for PvE

If you let your drone boat orbit semi-AFK in a site that does not pose a real threat that is true.
If you want to fly a more dangerous (and thus rewarding) site with your hands on deck but without to much micro-management I prefer to MJD out and sniper everything from afar. Because in tight fights drones act like the squirrels mentioned above.

The OP sounds more like the "jump out and sniper away" kind of player. (Yet light/medium T2 drones are needed for the frigs that slip through.)
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#6 - 2017-03-24 11:39:57 UTC
The nice thing about drones is they give you 2 weapon systems which can be important as you move to larger ships. Cruise missiles and torpedoes do very little damage to small ships like frigates, especially when they are close. It's useful to have a squadron of light drones available to deal with them.

If you prefer to engage from long range with missiles the Rattlesnake probably has a place in your future. Typically fit with sentry drones and cruise missiles, you use a micro jump drive to pull range on your opponents, drop sentries and slaughter them as they burn toward you with low angular velocity. If any get too close, recover your sentry drones and jump again. This blog post is a couple of years old but still relevant - little has changed.

Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#7 - 2017-03-24 11:43:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregorius Goldstein
I am doing my rattlesnakes wrong. Roll
Max. damage drones for the big stuff and rapid lights for the small stuff. (Fitting skills are still a bit lacking..)
Xavier Morientes
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2017-03-24 11:59:16 UTC
Schnozymandias wrote:

I have two questions for you: are you intending to train primarily for PvE or PvP activities? And, if the latter, are you interested in solo, small-gang or fleet fighting?

I'm planning to join a null sec mining corp. for my career, not just for mining and also escort duty. I'm not sure how many escort stay with mining ships. While earning ISK with mining, I plan to spend this credit with solo PvP for fun, probably hunting for gankers and will die trying.
#9 - 2017-03-24 12:18:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Schnozymandias
Alright. So for PvE you have excellent options for long-range damage using any of the weapon systems. Your biggest concern will be making sure you are dealing the right type of damage for the NPCs of your area of space. Drones, Missiles and Projectiles afford you the most flexibility in these cases since your damage type is dependent on the drone or ammunition choice you use.

For solo PvP, your biggest concern will be applying your damage while keeping the opponent from warping away. If you want to fight at range, this places you in the area of 18-24 km using warp disruptors. Artillery, drones, energy turrets, hybrid turrets, and missiles can all be effective at these ranges. You'll want to place emphasis on speed and range, as longer-range weapons usually have lower DPS and you need to control range between you and your opponent to be effective. Very popular for this at the moment are cruisers that use the Rapid Light Missile systems, including the standard Caldari Caracal. By cross-training Caldari and Gallente, you also gain access to the Mordu's Legion ships, which have bonuses to warp scrambler and warp disruptor range (increasing your effective range of control and kiting). Just some things to think about.

You should definitely invest in drone training at some point. While the Amarr, Gallente and Guristas have ships that use drones as primary weapon systems, a very large number of ships in EVE (especially at the cruiser size and up) use drones as a secondary weapon system. Drones are particularly useful when you are flying larger ships, as larger weapon systems have some trouble applying their full damage to smaller, faster targets. Drones help somewhat to alleviate this issue.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#10 - 2017-03-24 12:29:40 UTC
Nothing wrong with brawling in a rattlesnake - consider using a Gecko, the role bonus effectively turns it into a heavy assault cruiser with ~ 700dps. They're expensive at 70 mil but a lot cheaper than an assault cruiser! With RHML and a T2 fit 1400 dps and 150K ehp are not difficult to achieve.
Alasdan Helminthauge
Zulu People
#11 - 2017-03-24 14:26:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Alasdan Helminthauge
Xavier Morientes wrote:
I prefer to work as long range DPS in MMOs. I like to be a pure demage dealer rather than crowd controller. I don't like pets, they usually behave much like children, hard to control and guess what to do next.

The combat drones in EVE are pretty easy to control and predictable as long as you set them to be PASSIVE. When they're aggressive, they might kill the triggers of a lv4 blackade mission one by one and have you face 30+ battleships at a time. So always set them to be Passive.
The problem with drones are 1) they cannot be overheated to do more damage, and generally don't have very high dps 2) they travel slow or can't move at all (the sentries) 3) they can be killed to reduce your dps, and that happens pretty often, whether facing players or npcs 4)usually you can at most carry 5 flight of drones, while it's very easy to carry 10 types of ammos (whether they're all useful is another question).
The advantage of drones are 1) damage type selectable (if you're carrying them) 2) they help a lot to deal with small ships which your large guns or missiles can't hit 3) they may pull aggression from your ship and thus become some sort of tank 4) good range: you can reach something as far as 60km away on a frigate without spending any slots, isn't it amazing? 5) the drones themselves use separate fitting resources and it would be a waste not to use drones on a ship having a drone bay.
Also there're a lot of other types of drones, like mining drones, salvage drones, webbing drones, ecm drones, neuting drones, logi drones, rogue drones etc. They're all pretty useful.
Xavier Morientes
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2017-03-24 14:43:49 UTC
Thanks for the valuable information. At the end, which ships do you recommend me (drones for support purpose only)?
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#13 - 2017-03-24 15:09:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregorius Goldstein
Xavier Morientes wrote:
Thanks for the valuable information. At the end, which ships do you recommend me (drones for support purpose only)?

You said you wanted to join a null corp? They will have doctrin ships and will ask you to train into some of them.
I would stick to fitting and support skills (those all ships benefit from) and only train T1 ships up to cruiser or battlecruiser.

I would wait with T2 ships, T2 weapons and even large weapons and battleships until you know where you will settle.

Minmatar is flown a lot and Hurricanes a popular fleet doctrine.
Keno Skir
#14 - 2017-03-24 18:54:43 UTC
Get a Vindicator they pretty cheap right now Pirate
Xavier Morientes
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2017-03-24 20:43:41 UTC
Thank you for your support. It seems Caracal best for me at the beginning than Rattlesnakes for the future.

I have one more concern. If I chose to turn my subscription from omega to alpha clone, let's say one year later, can I use Caldari ships that I already have required skills with my Gallente character?
#16 - 2017-03-24 20:51:25 UTC
You will not. Even if you have Caldari training, once you go Alpha you are restricted to using your own race's T1 frigates, destroyers, cruisers and industrials (and the Venture frigate). You don't lose the skills, they just become inactive until you get Omega status again.
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2017-03-25 03:40:45 UTC
Xavier Morientes wrote:

I prefer to work as long range DPS in MMOs. I like to be a pure demage dealer rather than crowd controller. I don't like pets, they usually behave much like children, hard to control and guess what to do next.

While some of the things that you talk about from other MMOs do appear in Eve to a certain degree, I feel that they are so different that you are better off droping those ideas and just trying Eve as if you've never played an MMO before.

There are no classes in Eve. You can fit a ship to fill a role if you wanted to but ship don't really have roles and neither do characters.

The exponential increasing of skill training length with each level of a skill with no greater increase in benefit means that you are typically better off spreading skill around instead of focusing on one thing.

I recommend to new players that they spread their skills around and try out pretty much everything. I came to Eve with the " I typically do X,Y and Z in other MMOs " mentality and found Eve to be so extremely different from other MMOs that none of it really applied.

Train and try everything and train more of the things that you find yourself doing more often. However don't commit to any one aspect for the long hauls as your tastes will change as you play the game.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2017-03-26 16:18:57 UTC
Turrets is probably the better choice for cross training.
All 4 major factions are well represented with gun-boats.

The gunnery support skills will apply to any size of turret and each of the types equally.
(pedants may try to point out that Projectiles don't need the cap-skill)

+Tracking Speed
+Base Damage
+Rate of Fire

I would say are the skills you want to prioritise in skill-queue planning alongside the relevant turret skill

+Fall Off Range
+Effective Range

are the ones you can worry about less (Unless you're training lasers, then the cap skill is very useful).

then it's just a question of deciding between Shield or Armour skills, which will give you the racial ship skills to focus on.
Alaric Faelen
El Ultimo Hombre
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2017-03-26 18:13:51 UTC
I agree with Kitty Bear above.

First I suggest putting training time into core skills. These affect every single ship you undock and shouldn't just be left at IV and forgotten. As you get into more complex ships or fittings, you will find it becomes much harder to get the load out you want. You start needing to compromise your fits due to skill restrictions.

Most any (Omega) fit you see simply assumes you have an 'All V' character. With lower core skills you may not be able to use that same fit- and if you need to make too many compromises with your fit- you might as well be flying something else. I know grinding the Engineering tree to V's isn't as sexy as training for that shiny new ship class, but you'll get more mileage out of core skills. Despite being able to fly virtually every sub-capital in the game, I still end up flying the same small handful of ships most of the time.

I believe the OP is more on point about ROLES than many players. In Eve, fleets are made up of specific roles- FC, tackle, DPS, EWAR, Logi, Command, etc. It is these roles that you should be concentrating on rather than specific ships/weapon types. Using logi for example, you not only need the Logistics skills, racial frigate/cruiser to V, you need good skills in Navigation to keep up and stay in rep range, Repair modules use a ton of capacitor, so we are back to those core skills I mentioned above as well. Choosing a ROLE will direct your training focus more than choosing a race or specific ship. These roles all offer depth of gameplay and tactics- take the time to really learn your role.
Remember- it is better to fly one thing really well than to fly five things poorly.

As for 'pets', in Eve it's drones. These are a necessary evil. Most ships larger than a frigate or destroyer get drones. This is because Eve favors single weapon ships- all one type and size of guns. We don't have point defense weapons really, no smaller set of guns to bring to bear on fast tacklers. So your battleship will have a very hard time hitting a Ceptor that has you scrammed. Enter the drone. As for their behavior, we do have settings to control them- most of the time you will set them to passive so you can direct whom they attack and when.

Lastly, when you do cross-train initially stick to skills that are shared between races/ships. Like Kitty's suggestion of turrets. All races have turret based ships so training the Gunnery tree will support a great many ships. Both Gunnery and Missile trees have several support skills that affect all weapons of that type, so again, these are the 'core' skills for that tree and should be priority for training to V.

An important note is that Eve does not have a dedicated 'tank' role. Any ship can be attacked so all ships need to have their own basic tank (if supported by logi) or strong individual tank (if no logi is present). So the Shield and Armor trees are another time-sink for training, but absolutely critical to invest in.