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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Operation Fresh Start: OLD Emergency Announcement

Author
Sylvenia Juirian
Samrddhi ke Don Consortium
#41 - 2017-03-26 13:00:06 UTC
Graelyn wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I'm about to contact a sympathetic person who has an Obelisk that's apparently configured for passenger hauling.


Why, Pieter...

You know I have the same resources. And a fellow corporate member, no less.

I can't speak for Pieter, Cardinal, but I would think that two is better than one, hmm? I would greatly enjoy seeing other transports besides my own engaged in this endeavour. There are a great many civilians to be ferried after all.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#42 - 2017-03-26 13:48:40 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
I think Ms Kim forgets a lot of the civillians are new citizens, and in no way have completed (or likely even started) mandatory training given how long this project has physically being going on for.

Hmm, isn't then military training obligatory for them? If I understand correctly, in order for a civilian to become a citizen, they should serve a three year term in the Army.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#43 - 2017-03-26 14:10:47 UTC
Sorry if this question has already been asked, but since supposedly there were caldari citizens on the Quafe freighters destroyed the other day, is their any plans in place so that something similar does not happen to your own if worst case requires you to evac? Obviously you wont be flying freighters clearly marked as Gallante ships but just incase i guess.
Sylvenia Juirian
Samrddhi ke Don Consortium
#44 - 2017-03-26 14:43:50 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
Sorry if this question has already been asked, but since supposedly there were caldari citizens on the Quafe freighters destroyed the other day, is their any plans in place so that something similar does not happen to your own if worst case requires you to evac? Obviously you wont be flying freighters clearly marked as Gallante ships but just incase i guess.

If you're asking me, the answer is... Trade secrets, my dear.

That, and I've already crossed the border without issue more than once.
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#45 - 2017-03-26 15:03:08 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Utari Onzo wrote:
I think Ms Kim forgets a lot of the civillians are new citizens, and in no way have completed (or likely even started) mandatory training given how long this project has physically being going on for.

Hmm, isn't then military training obligatory for them? If I understand correctly, in order for a civilian to become a citizen, they should serve a three year term in the Army.

I would assume that it would be obligatory, but given this project is still extremely young it would be doubtful that every single individual would have been picked up for their conscription service. There is a lag time you know, where in you essencially wait to be called up for any kind of service. The megacorps are not so efficient to be able to pick up, supply, outfit and train every single new adult and citizen at the exact moment they are of age or required to serve. There is a limit to how many warm bodies you can accomodate in any system, so as others finish training and service those on the list replace them. It's called logistics and human resources, fields I got very familiar with as a Director for 13 and recruitment officer for several other capsuleer organisations.

Further, this project as far as I am aware is far less then the total three years, and Pieter himself has confirmed there are no troops on Caldari Prime under his project. So, we can rule out any of the new citizens having finished training or serving on Caldari Prime itself unless Pieter inducted them from the point of Caldari Prime being recaptured by the State, had them do their conscription, then returned them to Caldari Prime under this venture. That or they are serving as Police conscripts, in which case their training would be presumably directed to law and order, not holding a rather large target of a building in a vain suicidal 'last stand' as it is bombarded by a Federal Navy capital fleet.

However, I'm not 'on the ground' so to speak so it would be helpful if Pieter could confirm the details there. That or perhaps learning to be a little less binary and a little more realistic and imaginative might assist you.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Arrendis
TK Corp
#46 - 2017-03-26 18:57:50 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
To break a word you shall give it. Do YOU know what exactly he did agree on? Maybe you can tell us with references what did he agree on? But before you do, keep in mind, if you will claim he has agreed to something that he didn't - it will be you, who will lose the honor.

Now, go ahead.


You mean like the tacit agreement to obey the applicable laws regarding construction on Caldari Prime, as mandated by both powers?

Stop being foolish, Diana.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#47 - 2017-03-26 18:59:55 UTC
Sylvenia Juirian wrote:
That, and I've already crossed the border without issue more than once.


You're a capsuleer. Capsuleer traffic isn't being stopped at this time.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#48 - 2017-03-26 19:07:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Utari Onzo wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Utari Onzo wrote:
I think Ms Kim forgets a lot of the civillians are new citizens, and in no way have completed (or likely even started) mandatory training given how long this project has physically being going on for.

Hmm, isn't then military training obligatory for them? If I understand correctly, in order for a civilian to become a citizen, they should serve a three year term in the Army.

I would assume that it would be obligatory, but given this project is still extremely young it would be doubtful that every single individual would have been picked up for their conscription service.


That, and the fact that the State maintains a Navy, not an Army. Caldari Army is a capsuleer corporation. Nor does universal military service make any sense with the Caldari corpoate structure. As has been explained to me before my Caldari participants on these boards (and if this is wrong, Pieter, please tell me), many Caldari citizens are funneled directly into the technical, service, manufacturing, and other wings of their respective megacorporate structures. Citizenship involves corporate service, but not necessarily military service—because State citizenship is megacorporate citizenship.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#49 - 2017-03-26 19:50:28 UTC
Okay, let's clear up the military service issue.

Every State citizen is required, by law, upon the age of majority to undergo compulsory military TRAINING and then provide two to three years of SERVICE. I've bolded those words because they are the significant factors.

The training is undoubtedly militaristic. It's the equivalent of basic training in the Fed forces. The Caldari military is the most technologically advanced of the four major navies, so a larger part of that training is technical training to allow the new intake the ability to perform the basic duties that any Caldari serviceperson needs for any job in the services. The rest of it, though, is undoubtedly of the sort that any soldier in any polity would recognise. Marching. Drilling. Running. Survival. Confidence Courses. Marksmanship. Combat Exercises. The Caldari being who they are, I imagine more of our training covers Zero G fighting and survival and cold weather fighting and survival than, say, Federal forces.

The service, on the other hand, is less universally militaristic. It represents the State making sure that it gets its moneys worth for all that training, mentioned above. The Caldari maintain a relatively small ground force and a relatively large space service. Inductees are more likely to find themselves in the support services as this frees up the professional soldier types for the sharp end. That said, the ground forces would be the forces that are expanded the most when the military is called up, so a lot of inductees wind up there, too, to make sure they learn the skills they'd need.

I went straight into the Peace and Order Unit for my training and service period. I was always intended to be orbital security and so Suvee ensured I didn't waste any time learning to manage environmental controls on a Wyvern Carrier or anything similar. Most Citizens aren't as lucky as I am to have had their vocational choices made for them before they start their training, so they're deployed on a more 'as needed' basis. Tube Children for the win.

The vast majority of inductees, of course, devolve back to Civilian status upon the end of their enlistment period. Most of them will take their skills and immediately apply them to similar roles in civvie life. Many of them will have to retrain into law, accountancy, or such like. Some will have pre-service vocational training in place that they can fall back on.


That's the normal - just so you know what that looks like! Now onto my people, the new Citizens.


Most of them haven't been through what the State would consider to be 'vocational training' at all. They've been through the Federal education program - which in some cases is superior to a State education, but is far more haphazard and less directed towards a vocational purpose. None of them have undergone the corporate onboarding and socialisation training that most Caldari start with at the age of five years old. None of them have served a term of military service. To the eyes of a State trained educator, most of them have had too much education, but too little of the right education.

The children are the ones who can be fixed the easiest. They'll simply slot into a accelerated training program. Within two to three years, they'll probably be little different from any Caldari child of their age. My initial impulse was to require parents to surrender their children to an immersive creche education - but I've since become a father myself and now understand the pain that would cause to the parents. Educational outcomes pursuant to vocational preparedness and suitability will probably be sub-optimal for these children. We will support them for however long it takes, however. They will serve their term of service at the correct age, provided they are fit to do so. We will defer that service for a few years if they need remedial coaching or physical training - which many of the oldest will.

The adults are an entirely different fall of snow. I'm in the process of negotiating a total waiver of the requirement for a term of service for most of them, who are just not educated to perform it nor physically prepared to survive it. Bless them, many of them haven't seen their own toes since Heth was in power. Most of the rest are simply too damn old to serve.

In order that they not suffer from the stigma of not having contributed to the body civic, I'm preparing some system whereby they can contribute financially, instead. The Foundation is providing for their education through negotiations with any corporation that takes them on as citizens. We have a zero-tolerance for them losing their citizenship through lack of preparation, training, education or the like.

Given the LONG statement above, you can probably guess that I brought all my police with me, from the State. it simply wouldn't be possible for any of the new Citizens to serve in that capacity, at this point.




For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Sylvenia Juirian
Samrddhi ke Don Consortium
#50 - 2017-03-26 19:55:16 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Sylvenia Juirian wrote:
That, and I've already crossed the border without issue more than once.


You're a capsuleer. Capsuleer traffic isn't being stopped at this time.

Precisely. Clearly, someone is paying attention.
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#51 - 2017-03-26 20:20:34 UTC
Well that clears that up, thank you Pieter, I was about to step in and correct Arrendis that required military training is indeed a thing (given my own experience pre-baptism to the Empire). Seems my assumption that the populace were not military trained or ready was correct, interesting you're going for a full waiver for the adults though. Surely not everyone is too overweight and over age?

But I digress, you've made your choices and have your ambitions. I can only support such a venture to the fullest.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Arrendis
TK Corp
#52 - 2017-03-26 22:01:13 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
Well that clears that up, thank you Pieter, I was about to step in and correct Arrendis that required military training is indeed a thing (given my own experience pre-baptism to the Empire).


Indeed, thank you, Pieter. Though I'll note, Utari, that I said nothing about universal training. Only universal military service.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#53 - 2017-03-26 22:50:13 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
Well that clears that up, thank you Pieter, I was about to step in and correct Arrendis that required military training is indeed a thing (given my own experience pre-baptism to the Empire). Seems my assumption that the populace were not military trained or ready was correct, interesting you're going for a full waiver for the adults though. Surely not everyone is too overweight and over age?

But I digress, you've made your choices and have your ambitions. I can only support such a venture to the fullest.


I'd like those who are of age and in good enough shape to serve their term. There is certainly a financial incentive for them to do so - since they won't have to pay for their waiver, if they do.

But the waiver offer must be made to the whole of the adult population, in case people think I'm showing favouritism.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#54 - 2017-03-30 10:51:11 UTC
Arrendis wrote:

Stop being foolish, Diana.

And that said YOU? My sides.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#55 - 2017-03-30 11:11:18 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

Most of them haven't been through what the State would consider to be 'vocational training' at all. They've been through the Federal education program - which in some cases is superior to a State education, but is far more haphazard and less directed towards a vocational purpose.

I would like to protest against this claim! The Federal educational program is worse in every sense.
We in University were busy all the day - obligatory lectures and training. I have seen reels about gallente education: first of all, they have lectures only half of the day, even less, and their training lacks catastrophically. Second, their presence on most of the lectures is not required, all they have to do is "pass exams". So in the end their students are just left for themselves with tons of unused time! And finally, significant, if not majority of their lectures are on subjects that no sane human will ever need!

That's total crap, not education.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing Yi
#56 - 2017-03-30 12:25:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Kolodi Ramal
There is no singular predominant "Federal education program." Member-states have their own education systems. What you saw was probably just how UC and CAS do things, but despite how big they are, only a tiny number of people go there compared to the total number of people attending post-secondary education inside the Federation.
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#57 - 2017-03-30 13:31:17 UTC
As I recall Diana Kim's understanding of teaching is being beat senseless by instructors with yardsticks for even the slightest misconduct. Her opinion on what is proper education is therefore extremely skewed and not to be taken with any degree of seriousness.
Sylvenia Juirian
Samrddhi ke Don Consortium
#58 - 2017-03-30 18:03:32 UTC
I daresay that reel may have been the slightest bit mistaken. Sleep was a thing of the past during the time I spent in higher education, and I certainly was no party girl. As mister Ramal pointed out, however, there is no singular educational system in the Federation, so I suspect some institutions might conform more closely to the source material mentioned.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#59 - 2017-03-30 18:28:52 UTC
I would like to thank Egivand Prospector Circle for their help. We had a very particular engineering problem and we asked for the help of a very particular group of Engineers. They responded.

We are quadrupling our lift capability. Egivand Prospector Circle are building four purpose-designed rough field pads for use on ice. We could quintuple our capacity, but our poor and much abused original drop pad has been stressed beyond all sensible tolerance and we'll be retiring her back to her original purpose - cargo drops - as of this evening.

As of tomorrow morning we will be carrying out four launch cycles, staggered so that one lifts every hour. Each transport will hold 200 Citizens and their baggage - this leaves us enough lift capacity per transport that we can allow sufficient baggage and be certain we won't have to split families across lifts. We will be running lifts from 0400 to 2300 hours with a four hour break to inspect the pads. We will have rotating teams of Pathfinders in the field to control each pad throughout this period - with a four hour break to make any changes to flight operations deemed necessary for safety.

We will be moving roughly 10,000 people per day if the schedule holds. Right now the Arcology can safely house some 20,000 people, and we'll aim to replace our 10,000 each day. This schedule will, doubtless, fare as well as all the other plans I've made, to date. Poorly. Even if it doesn't, we don't have our 1,000,000 Citizens off-planet until D+141 days after we started lifting them.

I still have not heard back from all 1,000,000 new Citizens. I suspect some of them have no wish to leave Caldari Prime and will probably pretend this whole thing never happened and throw themselves on the mercy of the Federation, if it comes to that. Let's hope the Federation will hear their pleas.

In any event, the work continues.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2017-03-31 01:16:46 UTC
I am currently in Luminaire on standby aboard my blockade runner, in case the effort requires more materials.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.