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Dev blog: The Advancing World of Upwell Structures

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Pandemic Legion
#21 - 2017-03-23 01:54:12 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
We are working on improving existing Upwell Structures (Citadels, Engineering Complexes) and also on new Upwell Structures.

We would like to give you a high level overview of where we currently are with those structures and where we want to go. We also would like to get your feedback and encourage you to fill out this survey.

But first, check the latest dev blog and learn more about The Advancing World of Upwell Structures.


Chant with me:

No Fuel No Tether.


Fix that and you'll see the spam subside, right now they offer a 100% safe space for little investment, and zero maintenance.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

DARKNESS.
#22 - 2017-03-23 03:23:28 UTC
I would love to see a few things that we have with other structures, that we don't have with the Upwell Structures.

1. Set standings for auto attack when a neutral or negative standings person comes within docking radius of the structure. Just like a POS. The target gets scrammed, webbed, and fired upon if they get near a pos with those mods installed. Structures they can't do that.

2. When will I be able to search my assets in Citadel? I virtually live out of nothing but citadels in 0.0, but I have to search manually for anything I keep there. I can't just type it in the search box and it only bring up the structure that item type is in. I can do it for stations, but I can't do it on Upwell structures.

3. I would like to see turrets of different sizes and types for Upwell Structures. We could put 3 different sizes of guns, or missle launchers on POS's but we can only put missiles on structures. Guns are an instant hit, but missiles have flight time.

4. Increase the amount of armaments allowed to be installed in the high slots of Upwell Structures. For example, the keepstar bash in M-0EE8.. Other that time dilation and the DD killing some dreads. It was pretty boring.. I would like the structure to be more defensive. They are pretty toothless right now.
#23 - 2017-03-23 07:48:47 UTC
Another survey about structures, and I am missing the same option as with the first one:

I don't like structures and would like that other areas were developed as well.

As a former customer of CCP, the whole point of giving money to a company is what can you do for me.

Structures don't cut it. I wish I coud had said it back in 2014 and I wish I could say it now.

In the meanwhile, at least I'm not paying CCP any longer.
#24 - 2017-03-23 08:02:33 UTC
The key problem with Upwell structures, IMO, is the lack of incentive for players to attack them.

Attack someone's POS and you usually get nothing or nearly nothing, but you can get the occasional lucky 10 billion ISK loot haul (or, in one case I know of, a 35b+ haul). This creates a strong incentive to engage POSes, and for the defender to actively defend them.

Attack someone's Raitaru and you are guaranteed nearly nothing. Plus it takes a good deal more effort to kill it. The defender doesn't lose all that much either, and so will often ignore the attack.

The only reason to attack a structure is to **** in someone else's bucket. This is sometimes fun, but isn't in line with most of EVE where content drivers exist.

My suggestions:

- Change the safety tax from 10% to 25%.
- Give the attacking entity 80% of this tax. (How you determine which attackers get this may be a difficult call).

That simple change will result in citadels (other than a handful in Perimeter) becoming conflict drivers.

_________________________________________

Second point.

Market citadels have accelerated trade centralization in New Eden.

14 months ago we had 5 trade hubs with >1T in sell orders.

Of those Hek and Rens are totally gone, Dodixie is dying, and Amarr is sick.

Present mechanics centralize trade in Perimeter/Jita to an extent that, IMO, has gone too far. This has in turn centralized highsec activity in the Forge region (and I have a good sense of this from doing medium scale production and noting system indicies, which gives me a sense of gamewide industrial activity - I represent about 0.06% of gamewide production activity, which peaked at about 0.20% when I took on major production contracts for Burn Jita).

I don't have the solution here but I think sales tax should scale with a system trade index.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Hole Control
#25 - 2017-03-23 12:40:14 UTC
Garphos Trectes wrote:
Quote:
enabling remote trashing of items in structures


WHY? So even less looting in wormhole space. Can u please unable trashing in WH Space?
[...]


This!
Arataka Research Consortium
#26 - 2017-03-23 13:00:16 UTC
Player made insurance policies would be cool. Would address the issue of underpaid insurance policies for T2/T3 and open up for a whole new world of scamming. Like, my insurance policies would have lots of confusing fine print that basically made it so that I only cover acts of CCP. Or Bob.

"As long as space endures,

as long as sentient beings exist,

until then, may I too remain

and dispel the miseries of the world."

~ Vremaja Idama

Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2017-03-23 13:37:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Skia Aumer
This survey lacks at least one crucial point.
Abandoned citadels are way too difficult to destroy.
In case you dont have ideas how to solve this, I'll give you some. Make "S" size structure that we can anchor near citadels. Those would automatically attack citadels once they go vulnerable. If defenders show up - they can destroy it very easily. But if they dont, attackers would not have to spend their game time grinding the bloody thing 3 times, potentially far off their prime timezone.

Furthermore, I have a lot of concerns regarding the citadels vulnerability mechanics, especially timezone warfare. But this one is just ridiculous. And it was raised numerous times, so I have no idea why CCP forgot to ask about it in the survey. I know some people think Fozzie-sov is bad. I also remember people complained about Dominion sov grind and how awful it was. I've read about pre-Dominion POS sov and that it was so much worse. You know what? We'll soon end up in Citadel sov, so let's make sure the grind would not surpass our wildest nightmares.
#28 - 2017-03-23 14:20:58 UTC
Your question about corps and upwell structures lacks the answer; "we already own one" ;)

And the one I missed; My friends already own one.

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

#29 - 2017-03-23 14:24:33 UTC
Garphos Trectes wrote:
Quote:
enabling remote trashing of items in structures


WHY? So even less looting in wormhole space. Can u please unable trashing in WH Space?

BTW what happens with assets of a deleted character? Are they still existing and can drop by destroying a structure in wspace?


What if trashed items in a citadel would spawn the items in a non-pass-worded secure container in orbit of the citadel that is there for, say 24h?

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

Snuffed Out
#30 - 2017-03-23 15:02:10 UTC  |  Edited by: h4kun4
Simple idea to deal with abandoned citadels.

No fuel = no tether, no RF timer, always vulnerable, no damage cap, no asset safety.
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2017-03-23 15:07:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Skia Aumer
h4kun4 wrote:
Simple idea to deal with abandoned citadels.

No fuel = no tether, no RF timer, always vulnerable, no damage cap, no asset safety.

Yeah, but they dont even acknowledge there is a problem!
The survey asks a lot of questions of minor importance, while the most outstanding problems are left for ~internal discussion~
Which means they may or may not be solved within the next decade.
Hooligans.
#32 - 2017-03-23 15:40:49 UTC
h4kun4 wrote:
Simple idea to deal with abandoned citadels.

No fuel = no tether, no RF timer, always vulnerable, no damage cap, no asset safety.


Yeah, I agree with this as well, especially since something like an Astrahaus has such a small window of vulnerability, a window completely set by the owner.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander

Best Alliance
#33 - 2017-03-23 19:47:00 UTC
Why don't you use PI mechanics instead?

We could build a mining base on the moon, the one you could attack from space like a structure, and use the citadel to protect it and/or as an orbital lift.

Plus you could use this in future for Project Legion interaction, as an alternative to destroy it from space you could capture or loot it from the surface. And this could split the moon for a limited amount of zones to mine, so people can share the mining if they like.

Member of CSM 4&5 ... &8

#34 - 2017-03-23 23:24:38 UTC
What I would really really like to have on all Upwell structures is a biography page editable by the structure administrator.

The hideous titles a lot of structures have ought to be on a bio page and could be done a lot better there. Likewise a lot of things currently on a structure owner's corp description page don't really belong there.
Renaissance Federation
#35 - 2017-03-23 23:48:58 UTC
h4kun4 wrote:
Simple idea to deal with abandoned citadels.

No fuel = no tether, no RF timer, always vulnerable, no damage cap, no asset safety.


Agree ! These things need to be fueled to provide perks
Renaissance Federation
#36 - 2017-03-23 23:51:38 UTC
Notifications of Structure services offlining and unanchoring & reinforced would be nice. I can undock and see these things but notifications would be nice.
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2017-03-24 00:07:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Saco Bissett
Current system is totally botched there's Moon goo for the top end alliances the cheaper planets are not worth the cost of keeping the structure fueled shift the cost away from some super rare moons that are worth most of the money and to more planets that are worth less money or give a scale that makes it worth it for all alliances that want to make money to look at moon goo if your not PL/Goons etc.

Current system is an utter failure in this department.

EDIT:

I also forgot to mention that even people in highsec should be able to mine moons but should be at a lower profit amount.

Reactions should be permitted in highsec, you can have any type of dangerous thing in Highsec but were not permitted to make the equivalent of an energy drink in EVE in highsec. While drugs were illegal it made sense but they are not any more let alone why other reactions had to be done in lowsec your permitted to play with plutonium (literally the most dangerous substance to exist) as a regular ok material but reactions in a station that have NEVER gone wrong never.
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2017-03-24 16:02:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Sylvia Kildare
AFK Hauler wrote:
It's obvious that CCP - you - designed the Upwell structures to need rigs for max efficiency. In thinking that you wanted to provide "profitable" content to salvage players, you made the rigs require a "stupid" amount of raw materials. This thinking would lead to more salvage content to balance the market because of demand - profit follows the player. However, that has not happened and your flawed thinking has resulted in a severe deficit in raw materials.
This proposed change follows the exact same flawed thinking - people who do not mine for content will not change their play style just because it becomes more profitable.

This one change (moon mining) can/may/might collapse the game market and lose players from being priced out of play style. It's not like there is an army of salvagers all of a sudden? Why would there be an army of miners to mine rocks and not tears?


"However, that has not happened"... meaning you don't think salvage prices have increased and more people are salvaging? I dunno. Not ALL salvage has increased a lot in value, but some t1/orange salvage that used to be near worthless (Contaminated Lorentz, IIRC?) have certainly risen a good deal.

I know someone who builds citadel rigs and is constantly trying to get more and more salvagers to sell their salvage to him directly rather than keep selling it as usual in trade hubs.

As a person who loves to salvage, I'm doing my part to fulfill the demand for more salvage. Buyers need to raise the price they're willing to pay to encourage even more to jump on board and start salvaging more.

Oh, and plz, more t2 ships dying in Amarr/Ashab/Mad/Niarja, I would love to whip up some more blue salvage in between generating orange salvage!
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#39 - 2017-03-24 18:47:18 UTC
Saco Bissett wrote:
Current system is totally botched there's Moon goo for the top end alliances the cheaper planets are not worth the cost of keeping the structure fueled shift the cost away from some super rare moons that are worth most of the money and to more planets that are worth less money or give a scale that makes it worth it for all alliances that want to make money to look at moon goo if your not PL/Goons etc.

Current system is an utter failure in this department.

EDIT:

I also forgot to mention that even people in highsec should be able to mine moons but should be at a lower profit amount.

Reactions should be permitted in highsec, you can have any type of dangerous thing in Highsec but were not permitted to make the equivalent of an energy drink in EVE in highsec. While drugs were illegal it made sense but they are not any more let alone why other reactions had to be done in lowsec your permitted to play with plutonium (literally the most dangerous substance to exist) as a regular ok material but reactions in a station that have NEVER gone wrong never.



...

Plutonium is the most dangerous substance to exist?

hah. hah hah. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.

Antimatter begs to differ.


From a human perspective, so do a number of diseases and materials. Sure, you can make a bomb with plutonium, but if you don't, it's not going to kill a _lot_ of people if mishandled. Disease, on the other, well, those multiply and spread. You want to wipe out humanity, go with disease.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

#40 - 2017-03-25 02:02:53 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Saco Bissett wrote:
Current system is totally botched there's Moon goo for the top end alliances the cheaper planets are not worth the cost of keeping the structure fueled shift the cost away from some super rare moons that are worth most of the money and to more planets that are worth less money or give a scale that makes it worth it for all alliances that want to make money to look at moon goo if your not PL/Goons etc.

Current system is an utter failure in this department.

EDIT:

I also forgot to mention that even people in highsec should be able to mine moons but should be at a lower profit amount.

Reactions should be permitted in highsec, you can have any type of dangerous thing in Highsec but were not permitted to make the equivalent of an energy drink in EVE in highsec. While drugs were illegal it made sense but they are not any more let alone why other reactions had to be done in lowsec your permitted to play with plutonium (literally the most dangerous substance to exist) as a regular ok material but reactions in a station that have NEVER gone wrong never.



...

Plutonium is the most dangerous substance to exist?

hah. hah hah. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.

Antimatter begs to differ.


From a human perspective, so do a number of diseases and materials. Sure, you can make a bomb with plutonium, but if you don't, it's not going to kill a _lot_ of people if mishandled. Disease, on the other, well, those multiply and spread. You want to wipe out humanity, go with disease.

Way to contribute to the discussion. Really valid. Really on topic. Good job.

If the benchmark is antimatter rather than plutonium... um... I've got millions of rounds of ammo that are fueled by antimatter. It's so cheap and so unregulated in-game a toddler could get hold of it. So, I guess we'll take this as official confirmation that reactions are going to be allowed in highsec now. You heard it here folks, thanks Steve!

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

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