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We Welcome Our New Microtransaction Overlords
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Kathern Aurilen
#81 - 2017-03-21 11:45:30 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
give specific resist hole ammo the clear dps advantage and it wouldnt be gold ammo at all but just another ammo type.

All ammo already can deal a specific damage type as needed to take advantage of the resist hole(cough cough but hybrid guns). One would just have to know what they are facing and swap ammo.

No cuts, no butts, no coconuts!

Forum alt, unskilled in the ways of pewpew!
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#82 - 2017-03-21 11:49:03 UTC
We have SKINs. I think, when it comes to changing spaceship looks its fairly developed technology. SKINS could be expanded more into alliance SKIN creator where you could design your own and pay heaps of PLEX to then make it available to alliance members. Logos of alliance or corporation on spaceships would be nice too. Maybe unlocking the option for that could be bought with PLEX too, for all spaceships on characters in account?

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ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#83 - 2017-03-21 16:25:27 UTC
Gregorius Goldstein wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:

So basically if they "wash" the RL money the players are investing to purchase in-game advantages by funnelling it trough the ISK market then it is magically no longer Pay2win? Good we talked about it..


I didn't get that logic either. It's like that "EVE has no PayToWin because you can't buy experience and practice" legend.
(While true in some caes, you can buy a ton of advantages in others.)

Yeah, that is really a wonderful excuse in all p2w discussions that is basically their last line of defence. Even CCP Falcon used that to justify their ongoing monetization efforts. If you think about it, there is NO game where you can buy experience and practice, because that is just impossible, so the argument is basically just an admission that there is no real argument left.

Evil RatKid
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#84 - 2017-03-21 16:51:21 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:

So basically if they "wash" the RL money the players are investing to purchase in-game advantages by funnelling it trough the ISK market then it is magically no longer Pay2win? Good we talked about it..

Also in my opinion, selling relevant in-game items like the extractor on the store in one of the most expensive subscription games is the very definition of greedy. If I pay 15$ for access to the game each month I expect ALL THE CONTENT for free and yes that includes skins.

I think you are simply being a Debbie Downer here and going paranoid ebil ebil CCP. And I hope you arent right. We shall see in time and until then I shall enjoy the game I play.Twisted

Right with what? Maybe I just work differently than you, but if a game starts to look more and more like a store front and less like a game I get a bit turned off. The result is that CCP already gets less money from me than they got for years because the product already lost value in my eyes. I rather buy a full game with that money where I get all the content and not just a fraction.

Evil RatKid
stoicfaux
#85 - 2017-03-21 17:11:17 UTC
Teros Hakomairos wrote:

Would you be worried about buyable double dps for your ship?

You mean like upgrading from Alpha to Omega status?

Personally, I'm waiting for a "discounted" Omega subscription option that doesn't allow for skill training. Oh wait, skill extractors are that discount option.

Are we further down the slippery slope than we realized? Or is CCP keeping EVE EVE by creatively avoiding the more hated aspects of MTs?


Personally, I think MTs will be targeted at the Alpha accounts. Alphas would be a prime candidate for paying MT to exceed Alpha restrictions. Maybe use MTs to allow Alphas to cross train into other race's hulls? How about Skill Tiers for Alphas; e.g. pay a MT fee to allow your Alpha to (barely) skill into and thus use T2 weapons during a sub period?

It would be a way to incrementally draw Alphas deeper into the game without overtly "forcing" them to pay the full Omega price. It would also be a way to granularize subs without granularizing sub times.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Teros Hakomairos
Doomheim
#86 - 2017-03-21 17:30:26 UTC
I find it really funny what an naive approach some people have here....

Just because it was so for 13 years CCP will NEVER sell "double dps packets" in the shop?
Just it was always so CCP will NEVER sell ingame influencing advantages in the shop?

so.....they opend this microtransaction door just to sell more skins and woman skirts?

really?

so CCP "knew that 70% of the playerbase would ragequit if they do".....

Do they?

Or does the money count more in this case and the "old subscription system is outdated and will be obsolet in a short time"?

Well maybe i'm way to suspiciously.maybe i'm to old and experienced to get fooled the way some people seemed to be.....


But i doubt that they,once they opend the MT door,will only sell "blinky skirty tools"....

They will also sell "shiny ingame advantage tools"......

Some here saw that coming months ago and were laughed over....

Some were right......
Teros Hakomairos
Doomheim
#87 - 2017-03-21 17:35:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Teros Hakomairos
stoicfaux wrote:
Teros Hakomairos wrote:

Would you be worried about buyable double dps for your ship?

You mean like upgrading from Alpha to Omega status?


No i mean like a package in the shop,buyable via PLEX,that gives you double damage on all your weapons ingame.....

And calling THAT a "no problem" would lead to a more serious problem with your approach of the game... :-)
stoicfaux
#88 - 2017-03-21 18:03:38 UTC
Teros Hakomairos wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Teros Hakomairos wrote:

Would you be worried about buyable double dps for your ship?

You mean like upgrading from Alpha to Omega status?


No i mean like a via PLEX buyable package in the shop that gives you double damage on all your weapons ingame.....

And calling THAT a "no problem" would lead to a more serious problem with your approach of the game... :-)

Allow me to twist to your perspective around. You're assuming that "gold ammo" would make Omegas more powerful.

What I'm saying is that Omega status is "gold ammo." Omega is "gold" because an Omega can do anything and can max out anything.

An alpha could double their firepower by buying up to Omega status, but they can't double their DPS immediately due to training times. Potentially, really long training times.

However, by breaking up PLEX into MTs, instead of paying full price to upgrade to Omega, an Alpha could pay a smaller sub fee to get a smaller DPS boost with shorter training times. Say allow weapon training to V.

Instead of paying for 100% Omega gold status that they cannot take fully advantage of until they take the time to skill up, an Alpha can buy Omega-Lite (or Beta status) to train T1 weapons to V. Or to train into and use larger/varied ship hulls. Then they could pay MT for Gamma status and train/use T2 weapons/ships.


To put it another way, instead of buying the "gold ammo" Unlimited Buffet that is Omega, we can use MTs to allow Alphas to simply "super-size" their beer or their fish or their chips and work their way up to the Omega smorgasbord (once they have the skillpoints to make Omega worthwhile.)


Ergo, "gold ammo" already exists in the form of Omegas. Thus there's no need for CCP to add "gold ammo" because the whole point of MTs is to (eventually) get everyone to purchase Omega (aka Gold Ammo) status. "Gold ammo" is already in the game and the goal is to get everyone to buy it. Thus the "damage" has already been done without anyone realizing it.


So I ask you, has EVE been damaged by gold ammo?


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Kathern Aurilen
#89 - 2017-03-21 18:49:34 UTC
Vayen Kukkus wrote:
Monocle riots wen?!

In 2011, they were selling things in the Eve store like a gun metal grey monocle then they decided to sell a gold one for 80$ worth of aur.

In protest, there was riots in jita. They were blasting monuments, no damage just attacking it so as not to trigger concord.

No cuts, no butts, no coconuts!

Forum alt, unskilled in the ways of pewpew!
Kathern Aurilen
#90 - 2017-03-21 19:17:27 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
We have SKINs. I think, when it comes to changing spaceship looks its fairly developed technology. SKINS could be expanded more into alliance SKIN creator where you could design your own and pay heaps of PLEX to then make it available to alliance members. Logos of alliance or corporation on spaceships would be nice too. Maybe unlocking the option for that could be bought with PLEX too, for all spaceships on characters in account?

i thought about too when I heard they were introducing skins, but all the skins are loaded from the install files. If there were custom skins for every Person, corp, or alliance, there would be updates everyday and the install files would ballon to 50 gigs or more before very long.

New skins aren't really downloaded on the fly. It's all set in the install files.

I would love to make a awesome ship skins
https://goo.gl/images/3bRMnk

Or something goofy
https://goo.gl/images/kLPzFB

Or something poorly skinned, makes Eve look bad. Every stupid idea that can spring forth from the immature just for the lulz.
Imaging a titian... Skinned like pean...

No cuts, no butts, no coconuts!

Forum alt, unskilled in the ways of pewpew!
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#91 - 2017-03-21 19:49:59 UTC
Vayen Kukkus wrote:
Monocle riots when?!


When they do Monocles again? Now you may form some "where is mu Aurum" riots. Or wait if they post a new solution.
Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#92 - 2017-03-21 19:54:12 UTC
Vayen Kukkus wrote:
Monocle riots wen?!


Never, I think.

The ship has already sailed and the crew is different now anyway.




EvE security zones in pictures

EvE quick reference pdf

EvE links
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#93 - 2017-03-21 19:56:37 UTC
Copy pasting your stuff to different places does not make it more valid. While I am used to a certain amount of "the sky is falling" I would like to know if you have any actual clues that led to your grim prophecies or just assuming the worst possible case.

Teros Hakomairos wrote:
I find it really funny what an naive approach some people have here....

so.....they opend this microtransaction door just to sell more skins and woman skirts?

really?

so CCP "knew that 70% of the playerbase would ragequit if they do".....

Do they?

Or does the money count more in this case and the "old subscription system is outdated and will be obsolet in a short time"?

Well maybe i'm way to suspiciously.maybe i'm to old and experienced to get fooled the way some people seemed to be.....


But i doubt that they,once they opend the MT door,will only sell "blinky skirty tools"....

They will also sell "shiny ingame advantage tools"......

Some here saw that coming months ago and were laughed over....

Some were right......
Trevorr Stjohnsmythe
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#94 - 2017-03-21 20:31:43 UTC
Huge stickers for ships, you know the bads ones people have on their cars now

More clothes. Lots more. Why the hell don't we have a crapton already?

I do like the idea of training speed ups
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#95 - 2017-03-22 00:00:37 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Teros Hakomairos wrote:

Would you be worried about buyable double dps for your ship?

You mean like upgrading from Alpha to Omega status?

Personally, I'm waiting for a "discounted" Omega subscription option that doesn't allow for skill training. Oh wait, skill extractors are that discount option.

Are we further down the slippery slope than we realized? Or is CCP keeping EVE EVE by creatively avoiding the more hated aspects of MTs?


Personally, I think MTs will be targeted at the Alpha accounts. Alphas would be a prime candidate for paying MT to exceed Alpha restrictions. Maybe use MTs to allow Alphas to cross train into other race's hulls? How about Skill Tiers for Alphas; e.g. pay a MT fee to allow your Alpha to (barely) skill into and thus use T2 weapons during a sub period?

It would be a way to incrementally draw Alphas deeper into the game without overtly "forcing" them to pay the full Omega price. It would also be a way to granularize subs without granularizing sub times.


I love this analogy and explaination along with your follow up post.

Alphas can buy into omega status incrementally or just buy omega status period. Then there is ZERO power creep nor gold ammo at all. What we have and pay for fully as Omegas IS the best status. This would be a sufficient and valuable tool to do both sub accounts and F2P accounts making ONLY the F2P accounts, Alphas, have to pay extra to get where Omega already is, and more importantly ALWAYS will be.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#96 - 2017-03-22 00:07:49 UTC
Kathern Aurilen wrote:
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
give specific resist hole ammo the clear dps advantage and it wouldnt be gold ammo at all but just another ammo type.

All ammo already can deal a specific damage type as needed to take advantage of the resist hole(cough cough but hybrid guns). One would just have to know what they are facing and swap ammo.

Wrong. Both hybrids and lasers have two set damage types only. Only missiles and Projectiles have variable dps and only missiles have variable dps into the T2 tree, projectiles is limited only to two damage types in T2.

That being said. If you had say lasers, Conflag is 50/50 EM/Therm, have ,say for arguments sake, 20 dps, so 10 Em and 10 therm but the new Drifter ammo would be omni dps but instead of 5/5/5/5 EM/TH/KIN/EXP it might be 4/4/4/4 instead. Which means that though you gain the omni damage types it would always be UNDER the full raw dps/HP amount of specialized ammo it wouldnt give a distinct advantage to omni dps types over the regular ammos. Couple that with the KNOWLEDGE you would need to know and find a resist hole and exploit it with the appropriate ammo would give you said advantage then it would NOT be Gold ammo in the slightest and a viable NEW ammo type.

And then to make that purchasable, "idiot ammo" if you will, in the NES store WOULD be acceptable to me.Twisted

Dont think, buy Drifter and shoot.LolTwisted

Think a bit more and use the right tool for the job!

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#97 - 2017-03-22 00:17:55 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:

So basically if they "wash" the RL money the players are investing to purchase in-game advantages by funnelling it trough the ISK market then it is magically no longer Pay2win? Good we talked about it..

Also in my opinion, selling relevant in-game items like the extractor on the store in one of the most expensive subscription games is the very definition of greedy. If I pay 15$ for access to the game each month I expect ALL THE CONTENT for free and yes that includes skins.

I think you are simply being a Debbie Downer here and going paranoid ebil ebil CCP. And I hope you arent right. We shall see in time and until then I shall enjoy the game I play.Twisted

Right with what? Maybe I just work differently than you, but if a game starts to look more and more like a store front and less like a game I get a bit turned off. The result is that CCP already gets less money from me than they got for years because the product already lost value in my eyes. I rather buy a full game with that money where I get all the content and not just a fraction.

Let me ask you how you are giving CCP less money? Are you playing less accounts these days in Omega status? Because that would be the ONLY way to give them less money. If you switched from subs to PLEX you are giving them more money if it is the same number of accounts. I dont see how you are not buying the full game with any sub type, be it cash, credit or PLEX but thats just me. I must work differently to you, I think you are right.

That being said you can value something differently than me, in fact that ISNT being different than me as I have the same ability to value anything at any level just like you. Blink And though it saddens me to see you not valuing the game as much the law of diminishing returns kinda says that over time it should lose value so alright.

Btw on a side note, if you are extracting your accounts because you dont need more SP anymore on them, but still plexing them in any way you are actually making CCP MORE isk than you did with just a sub. Subs run 11-15 USD dependent of the package. PLEX runs 20 USD. Extractors cost about 15-22 USD depending on if you take the cheapest bundle or individuals and if you do only 3 or 4 extractors. Which means for every SP farmed account you are paying CCP twice. Someone has had to buy the PLEX AND the extractors. So you are paying CCP 35-42USD per active farmed account. I think this is GOOD for CCP and allows us to play and have fun in a very unique game. So I certainly would give CCP more money for this option TYVM.Twisted

I love CCP as they are extremely smart.... sometimes.... But like all humans they are fallible and make mistakes. I am entirely okay with this.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Kaybella Hakaari
State War Academy
Caldari State
#98 - 2017-03-22 02:14:47 UTC
If you set up the right PvP environment and get the right whales, you can get people to spend ludicrous amounts of money trying to fight each other.

That's exactly the kind of cliff we need to be afraid of CCP driving over. The kind of game in that article right there is the reason free-to-play makes some of the vets in this game break out in a cold sweat and go crazy whenever someone said "Please make EVE F2P" in the F+I forum. They are right be afraid of a freemium-oriented redesign of EVE, because they'd have to choose to pony up stupid amounts of money, be second-class players, or just leave. If CCP really wanted to, they could make a lot of golden ships, skills, and mods, and let us push the sunk-cost fallacy really hard for ourselves-for a while. Some of us aren't, but doing exactly that is going to make the universe very empty.

Our only defense as players against CCP (or any game publisher) doing exactly that is to fill Reddit and the forums with stuff like: "That's not the game I signed up to play! I see what's going on there, it won't work!" even though we know it already did.
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#99 - 2017-03-22 08:28:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregorius Goldstein
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:


And then to make that purchasable, "idiot ammo" if you will, in the NES store WOULD be acceptable to me.Twisted

Dont think, buy Drifter and shoot.LolTwisted

Think a bit more and use the right tool for the job!


Yeah, I saw that one: Either buy one kind of "spell material" per level of spells you use (max 9) OR buy "omni spell material" from the store and never have that "****, can't cast level 5 spells anymore because I ran out of material" moment. I didn't mind that one much, it was just about not beeing lazy and check your equipment on regular basis. But I hated the "without MT your backpack is soooo tiny" one. That was a kick in the groin.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#100 - 2017-03-22 12:02:07 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
Let me ask you how you are giving CCP less money?

By literally not giving them money out of my pocket/cc.

Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
And this is how PLEX works...

Yes yes, I know how PLEX works. I don't care how much "more" they earn because I don't pay them money any more... I hope you don't work in accounting or something... The point was that I chose to not spend more money out of my pocket on the game because it lost value in my eyes. The fact that the same feature which devalued the game for me allowed me to keep the accounts subscribed for free is just a coincidence and a rather ironic one.

I can understand the shift away from subscriptions and to a micro-transaction model if those are the dominant factors to reach new players today. But EVE has not shifted away from subscriptions and got micro-transactions for non-vanity items in the shop anyway and that is where I have a problem with the direction of the game.

Evil RatKid