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Impact of Disconnect During a Burner Mission

Author
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#1 - 2017-03-20 17:32:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarek Kree
TL;DR: All offensive modules regardless of slot position immediately deactivate as soon as the server declares you logged off (immediately in the case of a manual log off or after exactly 4:15 in the case of a disconnect). All other modules, regardless of slot position, continue to function until you disappear from grid exactly 5 min later.

***Initial Post***

I had some trouble finding a definitive answer to what happens if you get disconnected while engaged with NPCs during a mission, so I wanted to recount my experience. I inadvertently burned my missile launchers out while running the Burner Serpentis mission leaving me with no working offensive modules (experiment gone awry). However, I was running a cap stable Hawk fit so I could tank him indefinitely with my shield booster running. He had me scrammed and webbed of course, so there was no getting away from him. At 35 m/s, it would have taken me many hours to move far enough from the warp-in point to get him to disengage, so I had no choice but to log out.

I can confirm that active modules in your mid slots (and presumably your low slots as well) will continue to function during the 5 min NPC aggression timer. I logged back in after about 10 min and found myself sitting at the mission gate with no damage, so my shield booster must have continued to function until my ship was removed from the grid. I docked up, repaired my launchers and warped back to the mission to finish up with no issues (the Serpentis Daredevil was simply hanging around about 100 km from warp-in where I had disappeared).

This is one of the best reasons I've seen yet to use cap stable burner fits. If you DO get a disconnect, you won't lose your ship. Maybe others knew this, but after a search, all I could find was vague innuendo regarding the action of mid and low modules following a DC. Presumably your high slot modules WILL shut down, but I can't confirm that.

***UPDATE***

I ran some additional testing with a second character watching my main. As suggested below, I had my alt simply jump into the mission room in a cheap frigate, get destroyed and then observed my mission ship from the pod. I ran several tests against both the Burner Serpentis Daredevil (2 point scram) and the 3 Burner Talos (1 point disrupt) using cap stable ships. The Talos mission also requires the use of a prop mod to speed tank. My observations follow - some of which appear to be new information:


1. Log off detection: If you log off manually, the server immediately declares you logged off and you drop from fleet and disappear from local. If you get a disconnect (that I simulated by simply turning off my wifi), the server declares you logged off exactly 4:15 later. I know 4:15 is an odd number, but it was perfectly consistent across numerous runs.

2. Module functionality prior to log off: Until the server declares you logged off, ALL modules continue to function as you left them and your ship continues following your last command. Your guns will continue to fire until they run out of ammo. Obviously, this only applies to a disconnect since log off is immediate if done manually.

3. Module functionality after log off: Once the server declares you logged off, all offensive modules, to include guns, webs and scrams immediately deactivate. However all other tested modules, to include shield boosters, armor reppers, hardeners and prop mods continue to function until the 5 min aggression timer elapses.

4. Ship status if pointed: If you're scrammed (2 points) OR disrupted (1 point), you stay in the mission pocket after log off until the 5 min aggression timer elapses (with all defensive and prop mods functioning). At that point, you simply disappear from grid. If you log back in before 5 min elapses, you come back to your ship in the pocket just as you left it with defensive modules and prop mods functioning and the ship following the last commands given.

5. Ship status if NOT pointed: If you are NOT scrammed or disrupted, then you immediately align and auto-warp out of the pocket as soon as the server declares you logged off (which happens immediately in the case of a manual log off or 4:15 later in the case of a disconnect). If you log back in before 5 min elapses, you subsequently auto-warp back into the pocket - at which point, defensive modules will continue to operate, but prop mods will not be active and your ship will come to a stop.

6. NPC actions: The NPC continues to engage as long as your ship is on grid regardless of your log in status. It moves back to the mission beacon once you disappear from grid or auto-warp away.

7. Actions when aggression timer elapses: The 5 min aggression timer begins when the server declares you logged off. When it elapses, you ALWAYS disappear from space regardless of where you are (at the auto-warp point or in the mission pocket) or whether you're being scrammed or disrupted. This means that, in the case of a disconnect, it takes exactly 9:15 to disappear from space (4:15 for the server to declare you logged off plus the 5 min aggression timer). In the case of a manual log off, it takes 5 min to disappear.

8. Logging back in: If you log back in after the aggression timer elapses, you reappear at the acceleration gate with all modules deactivated. If you log back in before the timer has elapsed, you either rejoin your ship in the mission pocket (if pointed) or auto-warp back into the pocket (if not pointed).

I know there's a lot of information there, but I tried to make it as clear as possible.
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#2 - 2017-03-20 19:01:44 UTC
Zarek Kree wrote:
I had some trouble finding a definitive answer to what happens if you get disconnected while engaged with NPCs during a mission, so I wanted to recount my experience. I inadvertently burned my missile launchers out while running the Burner Serpentis mission leaving me with no working offensive modules (experiment gone awry). However, I was running a cap stable Hawk fit so I could tank him indefinitely with my shield booster running. He had me scrammed and webbed of course, so there was no getting away from him. At 35 m/s, it would have taken me many hours to move far enough from the warp-in point to get him to disengage, so I had no choice but to log out.

I can confirm that active modules in your mid slots (and presumably your low slots as well) will continue to function during the 5 min NPC aggression timer. I logged back in after about 10 min and found myself sitting at the mission gate with no damage, so my shield booster must have continued to function until my ship was removed from the grid. I docked up, repaired my launchers and warped back to the mission to finish up with no issues (the Serpentis Daredevil was simply hanging around about 100 km from warp-in where I had disappeared).

This is one of the best reasons I've seen yet to use cap stable burner fits. If you DO get a disconnect, you won't lose your ship. Maybe others knew this, but after a search, all I could find was vague innuendo regarding the action of mid and low modules following a DC. Presumably your high slot modules WILL shut down, but I can't confirm that.


normally if you are capstable, all modules should running. highs shut down during reload while you dont activate them again.

from time to time i have also to fight with a socket close. since that i prefer a capstable version if possible.
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#3 - 2017-03-20 19:23:19 UTC
Ploing wrote:
normally if you are capstable, all modules should running. highs shut down during reload while you dont activate them again.

from time to time i have also to fight with a socket close. since that i prefer a capstable version if possible.



That makes sense about the high modules. So, all modules continue running until the aggression timer ends and you auto-warp away - but the highs simply stop after reload.

I've always preferred cap stable burner fits for simplicity, but I didn't realize they would save your ship upon disconnect.
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#4 - 2017-03-20 19:35:05 UTC
Zarek Kree wrote:


I've always preferred cap stable burner fits for simplicity, but I didn't realize they would save your ship upon disconnect.


yes they did, but you should not warp away when scrambled. will take a look next time if the daredevil only disrupt or scrambles.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2017-03-20 20:51:14 UTC
Ploing wrote:
Zarek Kree wrote:


I've always preferred cap stable burner fits for simplicity, but I didn't realize they would save your ship upon disconnect.


yes they did, but you should not warp away when scrambled. will take a look next time if the daredevil only disrupt or scrambles.

I agree, if warp scrammed by the NPC, the ship shouldn't have warped away. Maybe the NPC warp scram effect shut off for a bit allowing the ship to complete it's Disconnection warp.

Or maybe he just eventually got out of the NPC's Ewar range during that 10 minute disconnection time. NPC's will travel out from their original spawn point for a set amount of distance and then slowly head back to that spawn point. I'm thinking that might be the case since the NPC was over 100km from the warp-in point by the time he returned to the site after repairing his ship.

Anyway, lucky it wasn't a Perma-Warp Scram effect.



DMC
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#6 - 2017-03-20 21:13:31 UTC
Ploing wrote:
yes they did, but you should not warp away when scrambled. will take a look next time if the daredevil only disrupt or scrambles.


I had always heard the same thing - that you wouldn't auto-warp if scrammed (like in many burner missions), but you would if simply disrupted (like in most every other L4 mission). But the Daredevil definitely scrams and I still auto-warped away upon disconnect. I just reconfirmed this behavior on SiSi with the Blood Agent Cruor burner. I turned everything on and then disconnected. When I came back 7 min later, I was sitting at the acceleration gate at the entrance to the mission - not in the mission room itself. Since I wasn't watching with a 2nd account, I can't positively say that I auto-warped before my ship was removed from the grid, but the effect was the same.

I also confirmed that your high slot modules DO shutdown before running out of ammo, while the mids and lows stay active. I set auto-reload to off, activated all of my modules (including my autocannons) and then immediately disconnected. When I came back I had only fired 48 rounds, which represents a little over 1.5 min of firing time - which might simply be how long it takes for the server to positively declare you a disconnect. Unless I auto-warped off in well less than 5 min, the highs must have shut down.
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#7 - 2017-03-20 21:19:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ploing
Zarek Kree wrote:
Ploing wrote:
yes they did, but you should not warp away when scrambled. will take a look next time if the daredevil only disrupt or scrambles.


I had always heard the same thing - that you wouldn't auto-warp if scrammed (like in many burner missions), but you would if simply disrupted (like in most every other L4 mission). But the Daredevil definitely scrams and I still auto-warped away upon disconnect. I just reconfirmed this behavior on SiSi with the Blood Agent Cruor burner. I turned everything on and then disconnected. When I came back 7 min later, I was sitting at the acceleration gate at the entrance to the mission - not in the mission room itself. Since I wasn't watching with a 2nd account, I can't positively say that I auto-warped before my ship was removed from the grid, but the effect was the same.

I also confirmed that your high slot modules DO shutdown before running out of ammo, while the mids and lows stay active. I set auto-reload to off, activated all of my modules (including my autocannons) and then immediately disconnected. When I came back I had only fired 48 rounds, which represents a little over 1.5 min of firing time - which might simply be how long it takes for the server to positively declare you a disconnect. Unless I auto-warped off in well less than 5 min, the highs must have shut down.


ok looks like they changed it a bit because of the expanded grid. some guys had to fly over 8 k to get rid of him and before expansion it was only 300+. maybe i will test it out too to verify it. but the highs are a bit annoying.

maybe it would be an idea to fill a report and get ccp lebowski the link.
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#8 - 2017-03-20 21:24:43 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I agree, if warp scrammed by the NPC, the ship shouldn't have warped away. Maybe the NPC warp scram effect shut off for a bit allowing the ship to complete it's Disconnection warp.

Or maybe he just eventually got out of the NPC's Ewar range during that 10 minute disconnection time. NPC's will travel out from their original spawn point for a set amount of distance and then slowly head back to that spawn point. I'm thinking that might be the case since the NPC was over 100km from the warp-in point by the time he returned to the site after repairing his ship.

Anyway, lucky it wasn't a Perma-Warp Scram effect.



DMC


I ran the Blood Agent Burner 3 times on SiSi and remained at a full stop for all of them. Each time I came back to the acceleration gate upon login. Besides, I think they'll follow you much farther than 100km. There was somebody recently who ran into a similar situation and spent hours running 10s of thousands of km away before the burner NPC disengaged.

Perhaps this is an undocumented change to the mechanics, but I've checked it once on TQ (unintentionally) and a few times now on SiSi on a completely different mission, but I do seem to be auto-warping away.
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#9 - 2017-03-20 21:28:22 UTC
Zarek Kree wrote:


.. but I've checked it once on TQ (unintentionally) and a few times now on SiSi on a completely different mission, but I do seem to be auto-warping away.


this change is a good thing compared before. but we dont now without an official statement.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2017-03-20 22:20:25 UTC
I think the main point you're missing is that the NPC Ewar effect - warp scram - only last's for a short amount of time and then shuts off allowing your ship to do the Disconnection warp.

Since there isn't any Neut Ewar happening, the cap stable defense of your ship would still protect you even if the NPC was doing Perma-warp scram.

The only way to know for sure how long the Shield Boost cycle continues to operate after disconnection before warping out would be to have a fleet member monitor it. That would also show just how long the NPC warp scram holds the ship after disconnection as well.

Anyway, this thread topic is definitely interesting.



DMC
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#11 - 2017-03-20 22:33:50 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I think the main point you're missing is that the NPC Ewar effect - warp scram - only last's for a short amount of time and then shuts off allowing your ship to do the Disconnection warp.

Since there isn't any Neut Ewar happening, the cap stable defense of your ship would still protect you even if the NPC was doing Perma-warp scram.

The only way to know for sure how long the Shield Boost cycle continues to operate after disconnection before warping out would be to have a fleet member monitor it. That would also show just how long the NPC warp scram holds the ship after disconnection as well.

Anyway, this thread topic is definitely interesting.



DMC


monitoring it would only savely on teamburners and maybe the worm, but he would catch up interest from the burner to soon if he wanna get clocked and/or will not give a result which can be used.
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#12 - 2017-03-20 22:39:37 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I think the main point you're missing is that the NPC Ewar effect - warp scram - only last's for a short amount of time and then shuts off allowing your ship to do the Disconnection warp.

Since there isn't any Neut Ewar happening, the cap stable defense of your ship would still protect you even if the NPC was doing Perma-warp scram.

The only way to know for sure how long the Shield Boost cycle continues to operate after disconnection before warping out would be to have a fleet member monitor it. That would also show just how long the NPC warp scram holds the ship after disconnection as well.

Anyway, this thread topic is definitely interesting.



DMC



Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. You can only draw so many conclusions based on the after-effects. I may jump on with a second account and see what's really going on.
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#13 - 2017-03-20 22:46:21 UTC
Zarek Kree wrote:


Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. You can only draw so many conclusions based on the after-effects. I may jump on with a second account and see what's really going on.


but thats a thing ccp lebowski can help out. he knows whats should be going on. we can barely determine what happens , but he can.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2017-03-21 00:12:18 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
Ploing wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I think the main point you're missing is that the NPC Ewar effect - warp scram - only last's for a short amount of time and then shuts off allowing your ship to do the Disconnection warp.

Since there isn't any Neut Ewar happening, the cap stable defense of your ship would still protect you even if the NPC was doing Perma-warp scram.

The only way to know for sure how long the Shield Boost cycle continues to operate after disconnection before warping out would be to have a fleet member monitor it. That would also show just how long the NPC warp scram holds the ship after disconnection as well.

Anyway, this thread topic is definitely interesting.



DMC


monitoring it would only savely on teamburners and maybe the worm, but he would catch up interest from the burner to soon if he wanna get clocked and/or will not give a result which can be used.

I'm talking about having the Fleet mate cloaked and just monitor everything. The cloaked Fleet mate can see when damage is placed on the shield and when it's repaired by the Shield Boost.. He can also keep track of the time and how long the ship stays there.

Basically the ship disconnects with all offensive and defensive modules active after the NPC has initiated warp scram. The cloaked Fleet mate tracks the shield reps and amount of time it takes for the ship to finally warp out. I believe the Disconnection warp happens when the NPC Ewar warp-scram effect stops for reset.

Unfortunately the NPC warp-scram effect being reset can't be ascertained with any factual proof since the cloaked Fleet mate can't monitor when the warp-scram effect is actually active on the disconnected ship. However the amount of elapsed time from disconnection to warp out will help deduce that the NPC warp-scram effect has ran it's cycle and is being reset.

To confirm that, the player would need to tank the NPC and time the actual duration of the warp-scram effect a few times in order to gain a general idea of it's cycle time.


Zarek Kree wrote:

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. You can only draw so many conclusions based on the after-effects. I may jump on with a second account and see what's really going on.

The only problem I see happening with the scenario posted above is the ship gets automatically removed from Fleet at the time of disconnection. If that happens then the cloaked Fleet mate won't be able to monitor the Shield reps but it can still monitor the amount of time from disconnection to warp out.



DMC
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#15 - 2017-03-21 01:57:24 UTC
I'm thinking mwd out to 100km+ with a griffin and use the look at to see what the web/scram effects do, because I'm pretty sure the watchlist will disappear on disconnect.

sounds interesting as I would have thought the burner would keep you web/scrammed forever as the 5min engagement timer constantly resets similar to a pvp timer.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2017-03-21 05:51:40 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I'm thinking mwd out to 100km+ with a griffin and use the look at to see what the web/scram effects do, because I'm pretty sure the watchlist will disappear on disconnect.

sounds interesting as I would have thought the burner would keep you web/scrammed forever as the 5min engagement timer constantly resets similar to a pvp timer.

Good idea, didn't think about the 'Look' option to view the graphics effect of the Warp-scram Ewar.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the mechanics of disconnection.

I thought when disconnected the ship aligns and warps out to a random spot and sits there for a set amount time before being removed from the game. If it can't go into warp due to warp-scram and can't be destroyed due to having a good defensive tank, then it sits there indefinitely till it can either perform the disconnection warp or the server shuts down. If the ship is destroyed, the pod then automatically goes into warp to the random spot and sits there for the set amount of time before being removed from the game.



DMC
Takh Meir'noen
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#17 - 2017-03-21 12:01:56 UTC
As far as watching with a second character just use the gate with a junk frigate and let it explode. You can sit there in your pod, see the watch list, use Look At, etc.

Then bring in your cap-stable ship you intend to disconnect with. I'm the person that got stuck with the burner (Worm) chasing me, by the way. I had to fly for thousands of kilometers with a burnt out MWD before it finally left me alone. I left it flying for a stargate while I was at work and it took hours for that Worm to give up. Sounds like I could have just logged off and gotten away. :)
guigui lechat
the no fock given
#18 - 2017-03-21 14:07:16 UTC
I was disconnected once while in the fight (my second account, doing orca mining, was not) and got destroyed (and reimbursed by CCP). I think it was a dramiel burner, or a worm, one which I don't have a cap stable fit for.
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#19 - 2017-03-22 01:25:05 UTC
So I finally got around to running some tests with a second character observing. Rather than add my observations to the bottom, I updated my original post above so that the information was at the top. I can't positively attest to the fact that these rules apply in all missions since I only tested it on 2 different burner missions, but it seems likely that these are universal. It might still be useful to test it in a non-burner mission.
guigui lechat
the no fock given
#20 - 2017-03-22 01:32:41 UTC
4:15 = 60*4+15=255s. when your ping delay overflows a byte you time out.

When you close the application, it intercepts the window manager signal and sends a packet to the server stating an applicaiton shutdown. You can stop the application by killing it in the windows processus manager.
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