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Alphas and F2P Have Failed

Author
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#421 - 2017-03-19 19:02:39 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Ok

How about this.

Platooning.

In WoT you can temporarily platoon. You say it already exists
as making a team.
This could be a faster choice with benefits, like rightclicking
somebody who has a mark in Local that tells everybody he is
ready for platooning. You invite to platoon and if he (them) accept
they would instawarp next to you.
Maybe some other perks for platooners.


People can form fleets whenever they want. Yes more numbers is always good in a fight. So this is there already. Right click whomever you want in your fleet and select 'form fleet with'. After that right click on people and select 'invite to fleet' and then select at which level.

Once in fleet and in the same system they can warp to you or you to them.

As for any other benefit, no. It could be used as a method to avoid fatigue.

Edit: It could also, effectively, add jump capability to ships without jump drives if this "platooning" moves people instantly to wherever the platoon creator is.



Kinda different approach, the create fleet option takes way too long to be
of any direct use.


It takes seconds. You can also create an advert and drop it into a chat channel and others can click it. This all should take less that 1-2 minutes.

Edit: In EVE a little bit of preparation can go a loooong way. This is why logistics in a big NS war is so important. The people who can prepare and be ready first have a significant advantage.


Sigh. Sure is a problem for wiser men than me.

I know Im a newbie, but the immediate problem that CCP
are addressing is monetary.
They went from trial to alpha, darn big leap.

Seems that the problem is how to make new players enjoy
their first days, weeks so much they want to stay.
Thats why I keep addressing these tings that bothered me
the most when I started. (Many remember my sad, early
rage against this game)

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.

Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
#422 - 2017-03-19 19:11:08 UTC
i would say: just let it happen <3 Roll
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#423 - 2017-03-19 19:15:49 UTC
Trasch Taranogas wrote:


Sigh. Sure is a problem for wiser men than me.

I know Im a newbie, but the immediate problem that CCP
are addressing is monetary.
They went from trial to alpha, darn big leap.

Seems that the problem is how to make new players enjoy
their first days, weeks so much they want to stay.
Thats why I keep addressing these tings that bothered me
the most when I started. (Many remember my sad, early
rage against this game)


That's fine, but there is a forum for new player ideas where lots of ideas are posted. Some frequently...too frequently (i.e. use the search button or google please).

And you might want to read this. Or at least this part,

Quote:
Any change that is made to privilege a specific group in an open, classless game will invariably be to the greater benefit of older, richer, more experienced players.


With any proposal you should ask, "How could this be abused?" You are new so you may not see it, so if you do have an idea adding that question to any posts about ideas would be a good move; with an upside you might learn about certain mechanics you were unaware of prior to posting.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#424 - 2017-03-19 19:25:48 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

That's fine, but there is a forum for new player ideas where lots of ideas are posted. Some frequently...too frequently (i.e. use the search button or google please).

And you might want to read this. Or at least this part,

Quote:
Any change that is made to privilege a specific group in an open, classless game will invariably be to the greater benefit of older, richer, more experienced players.


With any proposal you should ask, "How could this be abused?" You are new so you may not see it, so if you do have an idea adding that question to any posts about ideas would be a good move; with an upside you might learn about certain mechanics you were unaware of prior to posting.


Yep I tend to get hyper in forums, kinda getting caught up
in the moment.

Usually Memphis Baas steps in and bitchslaps me in Beginners Q&A.

How about SP-connected perks that "wears" of when you reach higher
levels of SP?

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.

Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#425 - 2017-03-19 19:26:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Trasch Taranogas
Don't try and make EVE "better for new players"; just try to make the game better for everyone and the new players (or miners, or solo PvP, or small alliances, or hi-sec CSM voters) will benefit just fine.

This could be written on the Eve tombstone

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.

Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#426 - 2017-03-19 19:53:45 UTC
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

That's fine, but there is a forum for new player ideas where lots of ideas are posted. Some frequently...too frequently (i.e. use the search button or google please).

And you might want to read this. Or at least this part,

Quote:
Any change that is made to privilege a specific group in an open, classless game will invariably be to the greater benefit of older, richer, more experienced players.


With any proposal you should ask, "How could this be abused?" You are new so you may not see it, so if you do have an idea adding that question to any posts about ideas would be a good move; with an upside you might learn about certain mechanics you were unaware of prior to posting.


Yep I tend to get hyper in forums, kinda getting caught up
in the moment.

Usually Memphis Baas steps in and bitchslaps me in Beginners Q&A.

How about SP-connected perks that "wears" of when you reach higher
levels of SP?


Already been tried. There were these things called dailies, like go kill a belt rat and get x-SP. CCP ended up taking it out. Not sure if they are still working on it or not or totally scrapped it.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#427 - 2017-03-19 19:54:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Don't try and make EVE "better for new players"; just try to make the game better for everyone and the new players (or miners, or solo PvP, or small alliances, or hi-sec CSM voters) will benefit just fine.

This could be written on the Eve tombstone


Hopefully not for awhile, and perhaps it would be better served by being written over the doors of CCP's building.

Edit: And at the risk of dragging this off into politics (please don't though) Buchanan and Congleton arrived at the same idea for society in general.

Here is a nice summary of the concept:

Quote:
Adam Smith called it the “impartial spectator”. Imagine that you are an impartial spectator and then think about what is proper behaviour and what laws or rules you would want to impose on yourself and others. John Rawls used “behind the veil of ignorance”. To decide the right behaviour or laws, put yourself behind the veil of ignorance where you do not know your status in the real world—whether you are a man or a woman, rich or poor, lower caste or upper caste. And then you think about the rules for a political and economic system. The public choice theorist James Buchanan made a variation on Rawls and coined the term “behind the veil of uncertainty”. Nobel laureate F.A. Hayek relied on the “generality principle” to arrive at the “constitution of liberty”. These are different mental techniques to decipher the right rules.


In short, how would you design the rules of a system not knowing your place in that system? It is not unlike the problem of how to cut a cake fairly. In that case you set up the following rule, the person cutting the cake selects the last piece. To maximize his share the cake cutter will cut all pieces to be the same size.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#428 - 2017-03-19 20:32:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Trasch Taranogas
@Teckos Pech

You are a wise man.

Eve is a huge social experiment.

To me it seems the playerbase has been very steady
except for the Alpha-peak.
Maybe everybody is overreacting on Eves death.

We have unfortunately seen many examples of game
developers that during success hires too many
people and then when "normality" sets in the downhill
starts (lookin at you too Rovio)

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.

Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#429 - 2017-03-19 23:06:40 UTC
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
@Teckos Pech

You are a wise man.

Eve is a huge social experiment.

To me it seems the playerbase has been very steady
except for the Alpha-peak.
Maybe everybody is overreacting on Eves death.

We have unfortunately seen many examples of game
developers that during success hires too many
people and then when "normality" sets in the downhill
starts (lookin at you too Rovio)


Yes and no - there is a definite trend there if you look at any metric* but it doesn't mean that the outcome is inevitable. But based on around 20 years of experience with both sides of the fence when it comes to video games (as a player and developer) my experience would suggest that Eve is if everything continues on current trends in a downwards decline to a critical point around 2-3 years from now where declining activity levels will go into a spiral as less activity will breed less activity combined with the lower income meaning less investment in updates to the game. (This is more an instinctive thing than something necessarily calculated).

And I honestly believe the solution partly lies in embracing a certain, though limited, amount of canned fleet content both in PVP and especially PVE that brings people together earlier in the game - especially mission arcs for say 2-4 players that don't have them running back to agent after every site and take them around the game world a bit.


* Even the graph posts a couple of pages back of concord activity when you filter out the various factors tends to show a declining trend in active players as well.
Salvos Rhoska
#430 - 2017-03-20 07:43:42 UTC
Everything dies, nothing is eternal.

Change, and adapting to it, is the only desperate means we have of forestalling that inevitability.
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#431 - 2017-03-20 15:21:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Trasch Taranogas
Rroff wrote:
- especially mission arcs for say 2-4 players that don't have them running back to agent after every site and take them around the game world a bit..



This is not a bad idea at all. Joining a corp could be too big a leap for many.

So missions or some ingame billboard system (WiS Big smile) where you could
temporarily get together and form a fleet, do whatever and then separate.

Like forming a music band for a few gigs.

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.

Lawrence Lawton
The Lawton School for Pubbies Who Can't Mine Good
CODE.
#432 - 2017-03-20 18:07:47 UTC
lilol' me wrote:

for me ill always say these things are problems

Scamming - big problem
Ganking - big problem
Risk vs Reward - CCP have nerfed reward its pathetic. I mean you do a lvl 3 mission and you get literally not much for your efforts
Immersion - the game can be terribly boring, missions are boring, pvp well isnt exactly exciting, there is no life in eve, you only ever see someone at a station or at a gate really, there is nothing in between. Citadels help a little on that but i want to see more life happening.

Scamming - one of the selling points of EVE
Ganking - one of the selling points of EVE
Risk vs Reward - There is almost zero risk in running a lvl 3 mission run in highsec, so of course the reward is low. Try running a DED site in in low or null. The risk/reward ratio in highsec is actually imbalanced in the other direction. Many people go months without losing anything and stay in highsec forever. (Nerf highsec incursions!)
Immersion - The PvE is predictable, repetitive, and unchallenging. That is because EVE is a social PvP game. If you think PvP is not exciting then you're doing it wrong.

You are a carebear and you should feel bad about it. Your expectations are completely off. Highsec is like training wheels for people who don't know how to play yet.

The solution to your problem is to stop playing EVE like a solo theme park game, join a decent corp or alliance, and get out of highsec.
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#433 - 2017-03-20 18:17:34 UTC
Lawrence Lawton wrote:


The solution to your problem is to stop playing EVE like a solo theme park game, join a decent corp or alliance, and get out of highsec.


I would agree with this for the vast majority of players. EVE is not a theme park game. Playing it as a solo lone wolf player from the get go is going to lead to alot of frustration and annoyance, IMO. If you first find friends/corp/alliance you'll learn faster, earn faster, and hopefully have fun. If at a later date you want to try going back to the lone wolf suff...go ahead, you'll be better equipped to handle it, IMO.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Maximillian Bonaparte
Interstellar Booty Hunters
#434 - 2017-03-20 18:18:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximillian Bonaparte
Eve may be in a rut.

I am not convinced it is dieing right now.

http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

However it could be true that Alpha clones are not doing anything for the growth of the game.

Alpha's are restricted to never being more than an alpha unless they pay...so they have no great goals to accomplish or look forward to.

It might do better if there is a Beta clone option, and perhaps a Ceta clone option (where you pay a samller subscription), and then the full Omega option (monthly subscription).
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
ChaosTheory.
#435 - 2017-03-20 18:38:24 UTC
Maximillian Bonaparte wrote:
Ceta


WTF is a Ceta? Mean "Gamma"?

My latin teacher is turning in his grave lol.
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
#436 - 2017-03-20 18:43:53 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Maximillian Bonaparte wrote:
Ceta


WTF is a Ceta? Mean "Gamma"?

My latin teacher is turning in his grave lol.


we aren't all lucky as you to have a latin teacher!
gogo autodidacts people!

let gamma be ceta!
ceta ftw!!!!!!! Cool
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#437 - 2017-03-20 19:59:58 UTC
Is there ANYTHING in between?

You are either in a corp. or you are a nogood loser with no future in Eve.

I simply dont want to be told what, when, where.

Im a family man who cant play on a regular basis and absolutely
not sit here and shout stupid things in to a microphone.

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#438 - 2017-03-20 20:04:49 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Maximillian Bonaparte wrote:
Ceta


WTF is a Ceta?


It's what comes before Deta, Eeta, Feta, ...

Lol
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
#439 - 2017-03-20 20:04:57 UTC
Soel Reit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Maximillian Bonaparte wrote:
Ceta


WTF is a Ceta? Mean "Gamma"?

My latin teacher is turning in his grave lol.


we aren't all lucky as you to have a latin teacher!
gogo autodidacts people!

let gamma be ceta!
ceta ftw!!!!!!! Cool



Not Latin. Greek.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#440 - 2017-03-20 20:07:00 UTC
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Is there ANYTHING in between?

You are either in a corp. or you are a nogood loser with no future in Eve.

I simply dont want to be told what, when, where.

Im a family man who cant play on a regular basis and absolutely
not sit here and shout stupid things in to a microphone.


Every places I played the game in didn't require to play on a regular basis or shouting stupid things in a microphone.

I have to admit no never having joined a WH corp or a HS mercenary one so maybe those do require that...