Player Features and Ideas Discussion

It's a lot of fun running random scanned sites in an Astero. But what if we had more, cheaper options that could do it? Similar DPS, similar hit points, bigger sig radius, slower, and you've got yourself a tech 1 destroyer.



I'll just throw in the Amarr version as an example:

5 high slots, 3 turret hardpoints
3 mid slots, 4 low slots
60m3 drone bay, 20mbit/sec bandwidth

Skill bonuses per level:
7.5% bonus to core scanner probe strength
20% bonus to salvager optimal range

Role bonus:
25+ bonus to data and relic analyzer virus coherence



And Caldari while I'm at it:

6 high slots, 4 launcher hardpoints
5 mid slots, 2 low slots
30m3 drone bay, 10mbit/sec bandwidth

Skill bonuses per level:
7.5% bonus to core scanner probe strength
20% bonus to salvager optimal range

Role bonus:
25+ bonus to data and relic analyzer virus coherence



I really just want more destroyers so I'm kinda throwing ideas against the wall to see which ones stick.

More high slots, more weaponry, more room for salvagers, probably a slightly larger cargohold.


I finish PvE sites in my Astero. Some of them are built for frigates. My proposed destroyer is much more potent in combat than a T1 scan frigate and considerably stronger than a covert ops frigate.


Not true. The virus coherence bonus is still valuable but is better used when you can get a higher base virus strength, or better used on lower end sites in which the systems are weaker.

This ship would get plenty of use in empire space. It doesn't need to be excellent at running sites in nullsec or wormhole space just to ever get used. They aren't the only space people live in, and besides, we already have ships that are good for those. Where the probe frigates are just an analyzer/salvage ship, these destroyers are competent in areas where you have analyzer sites and rats at the same time. Maybe we just need more sites that provide that sort of content, but I know there's a few already.

Why not just use an asterro or stratios? This is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist,

So you want a cheep t1 ship that can fill the role of a specialized faction ship?

In its own limited t1 fashion, yes. That's what t1 ships already do. Why is this a difficult concept?



Like I said, pricey. Tech 1 destroyers are around 1.5 to 2 mil.

But I didn't. My suggested ship is unable to fit a covert ops cloak and it's less agile. I don't see how my suggestion will devalue the faction ship.

This is a typical argument I get a lot: either my suggestion is way too strong or way too weak. Which is it? Is it remotely possible it's somewhere in between?

Why not a nice Heron with 220 deeps?

Neither, I do it just because I feel like ratting. No, I don't make much income that way, but I make a better percentage profit margin than I do running larger sites, due to the rate at which I lose larger ships. So based on the way I run, the smaller sites are actually more profitable, but I'm not doing it for profit.


I think there should be higher-paying sites built for smaller ships, easiest to complete with a frigate but still difficult and requiring a pretty good fit and planning. The payout should be less than bigger battleship-oriented sites, but not so much less that nobody wants to run them.

Think of it as DED rating tiericide. DED 1-4 are best run in a frigate or destroyer but they are easily completed by a new player with alpha skills in a T1 destroyer. DED 5-6 are best run in cruiser/battlecruiser and are medium difficulty: a T1 cruiser is too weak, so you either use a faction/T2 cruiser or T1 battlecruiser. DED 7-8 are best run in a battleship or command ship and you better have a decent fit. DED 9-10 are best run with a carrier, otherwise you usually take in a group or cheese it in an Ishtar with a 100MN afterburner.

So why not have difficulty separate from rat size?

Small-easy: a few weak frigate rats, can be done by a newbie in a T1 frigate or destroyer
Small-medium: can be done in a T1 destroyer with a good fit
Small-hard: best to use a faction/deadspace fit assault frigate, pirate frigate, or tactical destroyer
Medium-easy: can be done with moderate skills in a decent T1 cruiser fit if you know how to fly
Medium-medium: best done with a combat battlecruiser or navy cruiser
Medium-hard: can do with faction/deadspace fit strategic cruiser, HAC, pirate cruiser, or command ship
Large-easy: easily done with T1 battleship or combat battlecruiser with T2 fit
Large-medium: can do with faction battleship and a strong fit
Large-hard: you're only likely to solo this site with a carrier or a deadspace fit marauder
Fleet-easy: multiple sizes of rats which shoot at players nearest their own size, so they are easier with a group but a good player can run it solo
Fleet-medium: really rough for a single ship but a decent group of 3-6 pilots can take it on easy with some logi support
Fleet-hard: even a carrier might struggle to solo this; you'll want a small logi chain and at least 10 pilots

How are you losing ships in PvE? Presumably this is in highsec, since a frigate/destroyer is relevant at all, so getting ganked by a PvP ship isn't an issue. I can't imagine losing larger ships so quickly that it has any meaningful effect on your net income. Maybe very occasionally to a game crash or similar issue, but EVE's PvE is so ridiculously straightforward and easy to farm that losses to NPCs should almost never happen.



The problem is that "less profit" inherently means "nobody wants to run them". EVE's PvE is boring as hell, especially in safe space where the threat of PvP isn't even a factor. It's a means to fund the interesting parts of the game, not a goal itself. All that really matters is ISK per hour, and if frigate sites don't make the ISK per hour of larger sites then very few people are going to have any interest in them.



Because it doesn't work that way. Larger ships can be set up to farm smaller sites just fine (my sniper Kronos can one-shot frigate rats as fast as I can cycle the guns, for example), so a challenging small-ship site is effortlessly farmed by a bigger ship. The only way to avoid that is to lock everything behind gates that restrict ship sizes, which creates a huge problem in the exploration context: you often don't have alternate ships available. If you bring a large ship for PvE you find that 3/4 of the sites you find aren't legal at all. And if you bring a ship that can enter the small sites you can't do the larger ones at all. Either way you have a ton of wasted scan results unless you only "explore" a single system where all your spare ships are stored.

The only way around this problem is if the best ship for the small sites (faction frigate/AF/T3 destroyer) can also efficiently run the larger sites, in which case all you've done is replace "always use a battleship" with "always use a T3 destroyer".

Escalations are what you were looking for.


And Reaver, I would strongly suggest, you don't yolo a battlecruiser into a DED 5/10. 5 is rated battleship for a good reason.