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Schmaeel Medulla - overpowered rats
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#21 - 2017-03-17 22:18:57 UTC
Ronimil wrote:

Yea I knew incursion was in the area, but how does someone know that these rats are SUPER RATS?

They aren't. The stats on even incursion NPC's are weaker than most players.
You are just too used to the utterly nerfed unrealisticaly weak mission & anom rats.
Ronimil
T R U M P
#22 - 2017-03-17 22:19:25 UTC
Yang Aurilen wrote:
You know what other rats are OP? Drifters and NPC Miner escort ships. CCPlz nerf!



The miner escort has haulers, which drop skins which are valuable. What do incursion gate camping rats drop? Nothing.

The gate-camping incursion rats are extremely dangerous, yet the reward to kill them is crap. That's my beef.
Ronimil
T R U M P
#23 - 2017-03-17 22:28:36 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Ronimil wrote:

Yea I knew incursion was in the area, but how does someone know that these rats are SUPER RATS?

They aren't. The stats on even incursion NPC's are weaker than most players.
You are just too used to the utterly nerfed unrealisticaly weak mission & anom rats.


The gila I flew had 27k ehp w/ no invulns active. If the NPC phantasm can take it down in seconds, I'd say that's pretty good DPS. Did you even look at the KMs i posted? https://zkillboard.com/kill/60278562/

I don't think an NPC frigate should be able to take down a Deimos, but if CCP wants to add em that's fine but they should drop some comparable loot.

My point is that these frigs are as dangerous as players, yet they don't drop anything good.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2017-03-17 22:29:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
It's an incursion, and there are two parts to it:

1. Your System is being invaded by powerful spiky space pirates. This is a bad thing, as youe Cynos and jump bridges will be blocked and due to the system wide effects and presence of packs of pirates on every corner, your system gets barely usable. You are supposed to want to get rid of it, and the gate rats are part of that.

2. Only if you actually fight the incursion you will get rewarded, but that reward can be rather good if done right. But to get it, you need to actually gang up and put in a coordinated effort.
Ronimil
T R U M P
#25 - 2017-03-17 22:39:21 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
It's an incursion, and there are two parts to it:

1. Your System is being invaded by powerful spiky space pirates. This is a bad thing, as youe Cynos and jump bridges will be blocked and due to the system wide effects and presence of packs of pirates on every corner, your system gets barely usable. You are supposed to want to get rid of it, and the gate rats are part of that.

2. Only if you actually fight the incursion you will get rewarded, but that reward can be rather good if done right. But to get it, you need to actually gang up and put in a coordinated effort.


So it's forced ratting? Nice.
Ronimil
T R U M P
#26 - 2017-03-17 22:43:26 UTC
Dont take your vindicators out Goons, else Antem Neo will get you! https://zkillboard.com/kill/60838604/

Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2017-03-17 22:48:25 UTC
Ronimil wrote:
Neuntausend wrote:
It's an incursion, and there are two parts to it:

1. Your System is being invaded by powerful spiky space pirates. This is a bad thing, as youe Cynos and jump bridges will be blocked and due to the system wide effects and presence of packs of pirates on every corner, your system gets barely usable. You are supposed to want to get rid of it, and the gate rats are part of that.

2. Only if you actually fight the incursion you will get rewarded, but that reward can be rather good if done right. But to get it, you need to actually gang up and put in a coordinated effort.


So it's forced ratting? Nice.


Nothing is forced. Pretend it's like an npc wardec. You don't HAVE to fight. Log off for a week. Go fly somewhere else... but unlike a wardec these ones won't chase you. Won't camp trade hubs. And if you do organize and fight you can not only end it faster. But make some of the best isk in the game while doing it.

You are literally complaining about having a giant loot pinata on your doorstep just because this one happens to have some bite
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2017-03-17 22:50:02 UTC
It happens. There will always be idiots everywhere who don't realize that they are running right into an incursion. I myself am always quite happy when there's an incursion in Delve, as it's good money.

And yes - it's "forced" ratting. Forced in the same sense as an attacking player is forced PvP - you can opt to ignore it, but you might have to suffer the consequences if you do. Many things in Eve work this way.
Ronimil
T R U M P
#29 - 2017-03-17 23:00:46 UTC
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Ronimil wrote:
Neuntausend wrote:
It's an incursion, and there are two parts to it:

1. Your System is being invaded by powerful spiky space pirates. This is a bad thing, as youe Cynos and jump bridges will be blocked and due to the system wide effects and presence of packs of pirates on every corner, your system gets barely usable. You are supposed to want to get rid of it, and the gate rats are part of that.

2. Only if you actually fight the incursion you will get rewarded, but that reward can be rather good if done right. But to get it, you need to actually gang up and put in a coordinated effort.


So it's forced ratting? Nice.


Nothing is forced. Pretend it's like an npc wardec. You don't HAVE to fight. Log off for a week. Go fly somewhere else... but unlike a wardec these ones won't chase you. Won't camp trade hubs. And if you do organize and fight you can not only end it faster. But make some of the best isk in the game while doing it.

You are literally complaining about having a giant loot pinata on your doorstep just because this one happens to have some bite


Log off for a week? Brilliant. Maybe just quit for good.

Go somewhere else? Brilliant. I'll fly to a different region, and hope the incursion rats don't catch me.

There's plenty of ISK making opportunities. I don't need one shoved in my face. If the actual incursion combat sites have scram/web rats, that seems totally fine, but if they're at gates they should drop some good loot and have fat bounties.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2017-03-17 23:03:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
Considering how dangerous they are, getting away with your ship in one piece is your reward. If you sit in a 2B loot pinata yourself - congrats, you did not waste 2B if you got away from the gate. Big smile
Ronimil
T R U M P
#31 - 2017-03-17 23:09:46 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Considering how dangerous they are, getting away with your ship in one piece is your reward. If you sit in a 2B loot pinata yourself - congrats, you did not waste 2B if you got away from the gate. Big smile



Wow I never thought of it like that. I think I'll make a 25B legion and fly around null sec dodging as many gate camps as possible. I'll really feel rewarded then. Thanks Big smile
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2017-03-17 23:47:48 UTC
Ronimil wrote:
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Ronimil wrote:
Neuntausend wrote:
It's an incursion, and there are two parts to it:

1. Your System is being invaded by powerful spiky space pirates. This is a bad thing, as youe Cynos and jump bridges will be blocked and due to the system wide effects and presence of packs of pirates on every corner, your system gets barely usable. You are supposed to want to get rid of it, and the gate rats are part of that.

2. Only if you actually fight the incursion you will get rewarded, but that reward can be rather good if done right. But to get it, you need to actually gang up and put in a coordinated effort.


So it's forced ratting? Nice.


Nothing is forced. Pretend it's like an npc wardec. You don't HAVE to fight. Log off for a week. Go fly somewhere else... but unlike a wardec these ones won't chase you. Won't camp trade hubs. And if you do organize and fight you can not only end it faster. But make some of the best isk in the game while doing it.

You are literally complaining about having a giant loot pinata on your doorstep just because this one happens to have some bite


Log off for a week? Brilliant. Maybe just quit for good.

Go somewhere else? Brilliant. I'll fly to a different region, and hope the incursion rats don't catch me.

There's plenty of ISK making opportunities. I don't need one shoved in my face. If the actual incursion combat sites have scram/web rats, that seems totally fine, but if they're at gates they should drop some good loot and have fat bounties.


No incursion rats drop loot of have bounties. This isn't a new mechanic. They have been around for years now. If you never bothered to learn about them then it's on you.


Incursions are also only constellation wide. You shouldn't need to move more than 3 or 4 jumps at most to get outside them. They also patrol tge systems. So arent parked on the gate 24/7. Use a scout and jump through when it's safe.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#33 - 2017-03-18 00:16:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Actually considering loot, its nice to find a player ship wreck full of blue and faction modules on those gates that have those rats. Cool

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2017-03-18 00:22:40 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Actually considering loot, its nice to find a player ship wreck full of blue and faction modules on those gates that have those rats. Cool


Ooooh. Maybe we could make the Sansha rats loot and salvage their kills. Like the drifters do with corpses.

That way they would drop loot. But only the loot of whatever they managed to kill.
Ronimil
T R U M P
#35 - 2017-03-18 15:17:13 UTC
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Actually considering loot, its nice to find a player ship wreck full of blue and faction modules on those gates that have those rats. Cool


Ooooh. Maybe we could make the Sansha rats loot and salvage their kills. Like the drifters do with corpses.

That way they would drop loot. But only the loot of whatever they managed to kill.



That would be awesome.
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#36 - 2017-03-19 14:24:23 UTC
Ronimil wrote:
Drake Aihaken wrote:
I'm curious... having never run into these particular NPCs, do they loiter around regular stargates in Incursion systems and attack everything that jumps through - or did the players choose to engage them?


Nana, I was running missions in my Gila. I jumped the gate in low sec, and the system was empty.

I warp to my encounter, and before I initiate warp I'm suddenly I'm scrammed and webbed. Then literally 5 seconds later, while in shock to realize what's even happened, my entire shield is gone and I'm in armor. Then dead.

I came back to loot my wreck with a navy armageddon and dominix, because there was a battleship as well and the cruiser wrecked my Gila. Someone ran the rats 180k off gate to loot my Gila, but the super rat tackler MWDed back quickly and tackled my battleships. The rat died, but even for 10x T2 light drones (which it kills very quickly), and my pulse lasers (which actually hit it fo 240 damage @ 20km tackle) it still took forever to kill.

The tackler rat will keep range 11km-20km, so unless you have faction web you going to have a tough time.

My Gila: https://zkillboard.com/kill/60818092/

Friggin dumb that nothing gives warning about this, and on top of that the super rats aren't even lucrative.

I'm going to end up not even playing eve until stupid incursion is out of my area.



HTFU
Salvos Rhoska
#37 - 2017-03-19 14:47:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
HTFU

Ive never understood why an Incursion should force locals to drop their normal activities due to random NPCs or system-wide effects.

The initial idea, must have been that locals instead re-ship and fight to free themselves/profit from the Incursion, but this rationally and demonstrably does not happen. Incursions are too difficult/complex and fleet/fit specific to throw a kitchen sink at.

I remember in my early days my HS constellation was hit by what must have been record number of repeated Incursions. Fortunately, in HS, I was not at risk from the random NPCs. But I was nowhere near capable nor ready to fight off (or profit from) an NPC presence of that magnitude.

Yet, even more irrationally, all my income was nerfed, just so a fleet of elite HS carebears can arrive and earn 100-150mil/hr in my home where I earn even less than the pittance I already did, thanks to Incursion penalties.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2017-03-19 14:57:22 UTC
Yes. Incursions are disruptive. They are designed that way. Are you actually complaining that the pve is too meaningful and difficult for you?
Salvos Rhoska
#39 - 2017-03-19 15:14:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Yes. Incursions are disruptive. They are designed that way. Are you actually complaining that the pve is too meaningful and difficult for you?


Why are they designed to disrupt the system they are in?
Are you claiming a local miner or a DED/anomaly runner in cruisers is capable of engaging the Incursion?

How do you justify, that a speclialised engame fleet can arrive from all directions to earn 100-150mil/hour, whilst the HS locals have their small income cut even more?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2017-03-19 16:56:23 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Yes. Incursions are disruptive. They are designed that way. Are you actually complaining that the pve is too meaningful and difficult for you?


Why are they designed to disrupt the system they are in?
Are you claiming a local miner or a DED/anomaly runner in cruisers is capable of engaging the Incursion?

How do you justify, that a speclialised engame fleet can arrive from all directions to earn 100-150mil/hour, whilst the HS locals have their small income cut even more?


It takes less than 2-3 months from scratch to fly an incursion ready ship. And you can fit one out for less than half a bil. And then earn back that half bill in an evening. So it's hardly "specialized end game content" hell it takes longer to skill up to fly a barge properly. (And as an added bonus. Must incursion fleets are shield fit. So a miner should have lots of those skills trained already cutting the time required even more) if they are running anoms in cruisers then they are less than a month away from an incursion ready battleship. Possibly as little as a week if they have their core skills up already.

As for the HS locals. The incursion rats in HS don't scram, move 2-3 jumps in any direction and you are back to buisness as normal.
Yes it mixes things up for a week or two. God's know HS and pve content is "boring" as it is... in fact isn't that one of the big complaints? That there isn't enough good pve content in HS? And your complaining about one of the few somewhat interesting things to do?

Non-consentual pvp is a thing in the game. Why shouldn't non-consentual pve exist?
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