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Intergalactic Summit

 
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BREAKING NEWS - Federal Intelligence Office Begins Investigating Terro

Author
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#61 - 2017-03-18 07:37:31 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
It's good to hear such things said, Pieter. I never really got the sense that you might look down on me for such reasons, but it's still good to have that perception confirmed, especially since that time when Veiki went on that rhetorical spree from the Dragonaur political playbook.

It's not like I ever heard anyone else echoing her, but ... I might have needed to hear that, a little, from other Caldari.

Thank you.


The problem with Veikitamo is that nobody is ever sure quite why she is saying the things that she says or whether she means them.

With the possible exception of Veikitamo. Possible.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#62 - 2017-03-18 07:42:04 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Attributing this action to Caldari generally was Gallente's excuse not to start the war, but to commit probably the largest terror act and a war crime known in our cluster - the bombardment of Caldari Prime.


Caldari Prime had survivors. Starkman Prime did not.

And before you go dismissing that as 'in the past', so is the bombardment of Caldari Prime.


We're going to have to give her that, Diana. The bombardment of Caldari Prime was carried out by a government that didn't care how many innocent civilians it killed. The bombardment of Starkman Prime was entirely about the killing of civilians. The killing of non-combatants was, in fact, the point.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#63 - 2017-03-18 07:47:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
James Syagrius wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
James, we can be compromised with. Most of us want peace.
Well, Pieter, forgive the proverbial 'you', but 'you' have a funny way of showing it. We were close to something not so long ago. Our cooperation deep and constructive, if unknown. I think you know that I wanted an 'honorable' peace. You will understand then when I say, I hope the 'cause' is worth the cost. The damage is done, the dye is cast, let us then decide the issue.


I'm going to go ahead and say it, James. Never in the field of human conflict has so much been said about so little so often. If being prepared to kick over somebody's pillow fort is what renders me wholly irredeemable, then I was probably irredeemable long, long ago.

I'm very tempted to put up an uncrewed Astrahus so that you and your friends can burn it down and I can show you how one recovers from a minor loss, pulls up their big boy pants, and gets back on with the business at hand.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Teinyhr
Ourumur
#64 - 2017-03-18 11:51:03 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:

Good, I want to provoke them,


Provoking the Caldari is kind of like kicking a slaver pup: easy, unnecessarily cruel, and they will remember it when they get older. It is useless and in the end you only end up hurting yourself.
Diana Kim
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#65 - 2017-03-18 17:23:28 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Attributing this action to Caldari generally was Gallente's excuse not to start the war, but to commit probably the largest terror act and a war crime known in our cluster - the bombardment of Caldari Prime.


Caldari Prime had survivors. Starkman Prime did not.

And before you go dismissing that as 'in the past', so is the bombardment of Caldari Prime.


We're going to have to give her that, Diana. The bombardment of Caldari Prime was carried out by a government that didn't care how many innocent civilians it killed. The bombardment of Starkman Prime was entirely about the killing of civilians. The killing of non-combatants was, in fact, the point.


Oh? We weren't told about that in school. I probably recognize name Starkman, I think I heard it somewhere but can't remember exactly. Where is this Starkman Prime located? Did gallente kill them too? Maybe it was one of these unfortunate slavery worlds, that was crushed under subjugating gallente boot?

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Inefis
Akagi Initiative
#66 - 2017-03-18 17:38:54 UTC
Quote:
Gaterau elaborated his belief that "Kyonoke originates on the Caldari side of the border, and until two weeks ago it was a Caldari problem."


The Caldari stood guard over Kyonoke Pit for six years? seven years? And the Federation was perfectly content to let it remain "a Caldari problem."

We've bled isk for nearly a decade out of concern for environmental impact. How much do you think the Federation contributed? Would they even have been able to sway voters to approve tax hikes for a border-zone biohazard site?
James Syagrius
Chatelain Auxiliary Response
Intaki-Business Logistics Union
#67 - 2017-03-18 21:54:44 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I'm going to go ahead and say it, James. Never in the field of human conflict has so much been said about so little so often. If being prepared to kick over somebody's pillow fort is what renders me wholly irredeemable, then I was probably irredeemable long, long ago.

I'm very tempted to put up an uncrewed Astrahus so that you and your friends can burn it down and I can show you how one recovers from a minor loss, pulls up their big boy pants, and gets back on with the business at hand.

The structure was is meaningless Pieter, but you know that. It's what the affair represented.

But I understand that being disingenuous on purpose, can be fun.
morion
Lighting Build
#68 - 2017-03-18 23:18:17 UTC  |  Edited by: morion
James Syagrius wrote:
being disingenuous on purpose, can be fun.

or not

In business practices those that do are the first to see ramifications
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#69 - 2017-03-18 23:26:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Diana Kim wrote:
Oh? We weren't told about that in school. I probably recognize name Starkman, I think I heard it somewhere but can't remember exactly. Where is this Starkman Prime located? Did gallente kill them too? Maybe it was one of these unfortunate slavery worlds, that was crushed under subjugating gallente boot?


These days, it's called Arzad II. It was one of the three worlds of the Minmatar Empire, before the coming of the Amarr. The Starkmanir tribe took to the teachings of the Amarr noble who was given control of their world, Arzad Hamri. By all accounts, he was an exemplar of that the Reclaiming could be. He built up their world, built schools, infrastructire, and more. The Hamri family cherished the Starkmanir, and the Starkmanir returned that affection. They believed in him, and they loved him. They practiced the religion he brought them... until the leaders of the Amarr faith declared that his teachings were heretical, and had him put to death.

Years later, one of the Starkmanir murdered the man responsible for Arzad Hamri's execution. One man committed a crime. And in response, the Amarr turned a developed world, a world that had embraced Amarr culture and religion, a world of millions, if not billions of human beings... and turned it into a lifeless, volcanic ball of charr and molten lava with an orbital bombardment intense and widespread enough to kill every man, woman, child, plant, animal, and even microorganism on the planet.

It was done to send a message to the Matari on other worlds—an act of terror, a crime in the ongoing war against Matari self-determination. Had the Starkmanir been allowed to choose their path, they might have chosen to follow the path of the leader they loved. But we'll never know now, will we?
morion
Lighting Build
#70 - 2017-03-18 23:39:02 UTC
morion wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
being disingenuous on purpose, can be fun.

or not

In business practices those that do are the first to see ramifications


running any corporation promoting being disingenuous is suicide
with trust and integrity as anything someone may throw money at
your doomed to failure with a foundation of deception and lies
lost are the sheep ...
morion
Lighting Build
#71 - 2017-03-18 23:52:11 UTC  |  Edited by: morion
quote was altered

free thinking is frowned on in a era of block voting

being told what to think is common being told to ignore the free thinker

reinforce the ignorance of the sheep mentality

the term block vote existence cements my mentality of the loss of free thought in a land of sheep.
Talaris EveningStar
The Torchwood Institute
Vengeful Seraph
#72 - 2017-03-19 00:17:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Talaris EveningStar
James Syagrius wrote:
Well, Pieter, forgive the proverbial 'you', but 'you' have a funny way of showing it. We were close to something not so long ago. Our cooperation deep and constructive, if unknown.


Mmm, yes we were. Until a fanatical Gallente Admiral crashed a mothership into a Caldari starbase.

Seems we've found the Federal version of Ms. Kim. Noted.

CEO, Fleet Admiral

The Torchwood Institute for Advanced Studies in Systems Research, Cybernetics, and Drifter technologies

Proud member of SERAPH

"There is no good, no evil. There is only The State."

James Syagrius
Chatelain Auxiliary Response
Intaki-Business Logistics Union
#73 - 2017-03-19 00:53:27 UTC
Talaris EveningStar wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Well, Pieter, forgive the proverbial 'you', but 'you' have a funny way of showing it. We were close to something not so long ago. Our cooperation deep and constructive, if unknown.


Mmm, yes we were. Until a fanatical Gallente Admiral crashed a mothership into a Caldari starbase.

Seems we've found the Federal version of Ms. Kim. Noted.

Yes, well I suppose context is everything. Perhaps you should ask Pieter what you missed.
morion
Lighting Build
#74 - 2017-03-19 04:12:43 UTC  |  Edited by: morion
Pieter what you missed?
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#75 - 2017-03-19 05:03:40 UTC
The only ice I'm involved with is the stuff in drinks.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#76 - 2017-03-19 05:41:07 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
The only ice I'm involved with is the stuff in drinks.


You don't like snow-cones? That's shaved ice!
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#77 - 2017-03-19 05:54:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
James Syagrius wrote:
Yes, well I suppose context is everything. Perhaps you should ask Pieter what you missed.


Most people think their context justifies their position on things, Mr. Syagrius, including Ms. Kim.

I liked Xun Yu. I liked Sanxing. I was a regular at Symposium New Eden, especially at the start. I thought they did good work.

They didn't do it very quietly, though. Their attackers in that matter were not the first they'd offended-- just the first to express their displeasure by the traditional capsuleer method. We are killers, almost every one of us, and this is ruthless work we do.

The world isn't fair, Mr. Syagrius, and it isn't just. The good don't necessarily triumph, the wicked aren't necessarily punished, and ruthlessness is rewarded more often than not. Even if that weren't true, that would just mean that your own subjective sense of justice was running roughshod over others with different points of view.

Sanxing offended a stronger, deadlier power, and suffered for it. That's a sad thing. Sadder is that they broke because of it. I wish Mr. Xun well, in realms where naked power isn't so much the coin.

I don't expect you to hear me, Mr. Syagrius. It seems like your anger is all you hear. But I'll say this anyway.

If I'm reading the situation correctly at all, the people you're after won't suffer the way you want them to suffer. They're practiced, they're bloodthirsty, they're strong. And they're survivors. They're creatures of this world. They've embraced the exact thing that broke Xun Yu. Even if you engineer a betrayal within their own ranks, I doubt they'll break from it.

It doesn't make them "right." In a way it might not even help them very much. I left their company from fear of what I was becoming.

But I also remember the rush of wind beneath my wings, the taste of blood, the thrill of power-- not just shallow, fragile power that cracks in a single loss, but power that examines its flaws and compensates for them, that suffers wounds lightly and grows back strong.

The Caldari are survivors. But it's not the State you're fighting if it's the Falcons you hunt. It's the thing I went there, in part, to study, and face, but barely recognized until I found it eating me alive: the Black, the cry of hungry nothing, the true master of most capsuleer mercenaries and pirates. Maybe our curse, as well.

If that was something you could face, and defeat, Mr. Syagrius ... I don't think you'd be reacting this way to begin with. And like as not, by the end, you'll be as they are, yourself. I doubt your allies are immune, either.

There's little more to say. Spirits shield you. Wisdom find you.

Goodbye.
Myxx
The Scope
#78 - 2017-03-19 07:22:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Myxx
Aria Jenneth wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Yes, well I suppose context is everything. Perhaps you should ask Pieter what you missed.


Most people think their context justifies their position on things, Mr. Syagrius, including Ms. Kim.

I liked Xun Yu. I liked Sanxing. I was a regular at Symposium New Eden, especially at the start. I thought they did good work.

They didn't do it very quietly, though. Their attackers in that matter were not the first they'd offended-- just the first to express their displeasure by the traditional capsuleer method. We are killers, almost every one of us, and this is ruthless work we do.

The world isn't fair, Mr. Syagrius, and it isn't just. The good don't necessarily triumph, the wicked aren't necessarily punished, and ruthlessness is rewarded more often than not. Even if that weren't true, that would just mean that your own subjective sense of justice was running roughshod over others with different points of view.

Sanxing offended a stronger, deadlier power, and suffered for it. That's a sad thing. Sadder is that they broke because of it. I wish Mr. Xun well, in realms where naked power isn't so much the coin.

I don't expect you to hear me, Mr. Syagrius. It seems like your anger is all you hear. But I'll say this anyway.

If I'm reading the situation correctly at all, the people you're after won't suffer the way you want them to suffer. They're practiced, they're bloodthirsty, they're strong. And they're survivors. They're creatures of this world. They've embraced the exact thing that broke Xun Yu. Even if you engineer a betrayal within their own ranks, I doubt they'll break from it.

It doesn't make them "right." In a way it might not even help them very much. I left their company from fear of what I was becoming.

But I also remember the rush of wind beneath my wings, the taste of blood, the thrill of power-- not just shallow, fragile power that cracks in a single loss, but power that examines its flaws and compensates for them, that suffers wounds lightly and grows back strong.

The Caldari are survivors. But it's not the State you're fighting if it's the Falcons you hunt. It's the thing I went there, in part, to study, and face, but barely recognized until I found it eating me alive: the Black, the cry of hungry nothing, the true master of most capsuleer mercenaries and pirates. Maybe our curse, as well.

If that was something you could face, and defeat, Mr. Syagrius ... I don't think you'd be reacting this way to begin with. And like as not, by the end, you'll be as they are, yourself. I doubt your allies are immune, either.

There's little more to say. Spirits shield you. Wisdom find you.

Goodbye.


What I personally take from it is that Sanxing could not and did not have the power or experience in order to protect their assets from external threats, and had no plan or intent to do so. They invested more into it than was smart of them to do so, if the loss was so horrible for them that it broke them. On some level, I feel like the pilots of Sanxing have a lot to learn if that is all that it took to do them in. They have a lot to learn about themselves not just as humans, but as infomorphs and pod pilots. It is a little ironic but fitting that that Amarrian scriptures passage about losing everything you have allowing you to focus on what matters to you and gain perspective fits here.

I still dont think there is a god, but I do think it does certainly help you learn about yourself. Hopefully they brush themselves off and learn about themselves from the loss because it does seem to have been needless and a little pointless of a loss for them to break over.

On the flipside, I don't exactly see it as a credit to their attackers on any level. All it really tells me is that they could field the small fleet it takes to destroy one, three days in a row, and did so. Ruthless? Not sure if its ruthlessness or just having been itching for something to shoot at, which really only tells me that they are the typical pod pilot.


As far as James is concerned, my only advice would be to not allow your emotion to cloud your decision making going forward.

To the original topic and the FIO, the Caldari and the Gallente Senate... haha. Look at that. The Federation's Senate is talking trash about old foes in private. The FIO is doing their job and Ishukone is being typical Ishukone. Anyone that is surprised, shocked, outraged or otherwise upset or emotionally dramatic about any of this is just looking for attention and they likewise need to calm down and see it for what it is.

PS: If the complete eradication of all life as we know it is not enough of an incentive to cooperate fully with one another and put old hatreds aside for a little while, you are beyond explaining anything to.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#79 - 2017-03-19 07:52:02 UTC
Myxx wrote:
On the flipside, I don't exactly see it as a credit to their attackers on any level. All it really tells me is that they could field the small fleet it takes to destroy one, three days in a row, and did so. Ruthless? Not sure if its ruthlessness or just having been itching for something to shoot at, which really only tells me that they are the typical pod pilot.


While I'm not privy to all the details here, I'm personally familiar with a lot of the people involved, Myxx: PY-RE alumni. They're the people I trained with when I decided I needed to learn my strength. I didn't really just pull an opinion out of a hat. Anyway, at this point the "credit" to the attackers is a little beside the point (and you might notice that I'm not arguing such a thing).

The point has more to do with the lousy record of would-be avengers trying to punish those who behave in such ways-- and also the kind-of absurdity of acting like it's because they're Caldari.
Myxx
The Scope
#80 - 2017-03-19 07:59:49 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Myxx wrote:
On the flipside, I don't exactly see it as a credit to their attackers on any level. All it really tells me is that they could field the small fleet it takes to destroy one, three days in a row, and did so. Ruthless? Not sure if its ruthlessness or just having been itching for something to shoot at, which really only tells me that they are the typical pod pilot.


While I'm not privy to all the details here, I'm personally familiar with a lot of the people involved, Myxx: PY-RE alumni. They're the people I trained with when I decided I needed to learn my strength. I didn't really just pull an opinion out of a hat. Anyway, at this point the "credit" to the attackers is a little beside the point (and you might notice that I'm not arguing such a thing).

The point has more to do with the lousy record of would-be avengers trying to punish those who behave in such ways-- and also the kind-of absurdity of acting like it's because they're Caldari.


You know them. I do not. I said what I did as an observer with no prior experience with either party.

As far as avengers go, most people that actually have the power or force of will to do that also have the power and will to defend their assets from attack with even a modicum of force behind it. That they didn't step in is more telling than anything else, in my opinion.