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Making High-Sec Wardecks Interesting Again
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Ajem Hinken
WarFear Gaming
#21 - 2017-03-16 01:51:06 UTC
Collin Enderasom wrote:
Hi everyone,

first of concerning my choice of the topic's name I think it did, what it was supposed to do quite nicely(which was triggering people or getting them interested to my proposal).

Now that being said, why I propsed the idea was that me as a wormhole dweller doesn't really care about k-space all too much but even I have to leave my hole eventually and not being able to access trade hubs is a pain in the ass. I know this all sounds whiny and I admit it is, but there still is a deeper underlying problem to war-decks. I don't think we will solve this problem in this topic here but besides 'ganking' people legally in high-sec there isn't much to get out of high-sec wardecks atm. So it basically just is a nuisance to every player who gets wardecked, but essentially we all want to have fun in this game, which means that there should be some sort of way to deal with war-decks. And the general idea was, that in theory if an alliance thinks they could perma war-deck like 500 corp/alliances at the same time, these alliances could form a fleet to destroy there war module and the war would end right on the spot. The thing is everything we'll be discussing here is just in theory so we won't know for certain how people will behave unless some changes are made. I'm happy to have gotten some knew perspectives on this topic which I wasn't able to see before starting this post.
So thx for everyone's thoughts so far o7

That's an interesting thought. Perhaps make a new status - 'Has a Common Enemy' or the like, for players who have bad standings with some of the same corps you do, or has legal kill rights on a corp you do (And no, I don't mean actual kill rights, I mean legal ability to kill in general, so war-decks count.) so you can quicker identify these people?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6875494#post6875494 - Ship mounted explosives. Because explosions and Jita chaos.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#22 - 2017-03-16 02:36:47 UTC
You've always been able to look at who else is in a wardec with the corp you're in a wardec with. Its public knowledge who's decced with who.

Unfortunately people rarely use this info.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#23 - 2017-03-16 02:51:51 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
You've always been able to look at who else is in a wardec with the corp you're in a wardec with. Its public knowledge who's decced with who.

Unfortunately people rarely use this info.

Pretty sure that's because in part crime watch screws you over. Repping another friendly who isn't specifically in the same war as you counts as neutral reps, even if you are both legal targets for the person you are engaging, or that was true initially anyway, it's possible they've changed it, feel free to test and show me wrong.
So you can't make one large fleet, you can only put a bunch of tiny fleets in the same area. Meaning the wardeccers still win the fight since their logi doesn't go suspect and get shot at by everyone.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#24 - 2017-03-16 04:13:56 UTC
I meant corps don't work together on any level. Not even sharing intel or a common chat, let alone forming fleets with one another.

Logi from different decs goes suspect for sure, but neutral logi has been a thing forever and people rarely shoot suspects in hi-sec. I'd say its still an option even though it wasn't what i meant.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#25 - 2017-03-16 06:19:10 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
You've always been able to look at who else is in a wardec with the corp you're in a wardec with. Its public knowledge who's decced with who.

Unfortunately people rarely use this info.

Pretty sure that's because in part crime watch screws you over. Repping another friendly who isn't specifically in the same war as you counts as neutral reps, even if you are both legal targets for the person you are engaging, or that was true initially anyway, it's possible they've changed it, feel free to test and show me wrong.
So you can't make one large fleet, you can only put a bunch of tiny fleets in the same area. Meaning the wardeccers still win the fight since their logi doesn't go suspect and get shot at by everyone.

It actually works like this for Allie's in the same war, which is utterly stupid.

Ajem Hinken wrote:

Of course, then ppl would form wardec corps with high standings with NPC's and we'd have a bigger problem as ppl who don't have good NPC standings would whine even more. Perhaps make starting wardecs lower your standing with NPC's in the area, while defending would raise them? (Invert this for pirates ofc)

Any of the corps that make extensive use of locator agents , by virtue of the fact, will have excellent standings with two or more of the empires.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Ajem Hinken
WarFear Gaming
#26 - 2017-03-17 02:15:04 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
You've always been able to look at who else is in a wardec with the corp you're in a wardec with. Its public knowledge who's decced with who.

Unfortunately people rarely use this info.

Pretty sure that's because in part crime watch screws you over. Repping another friendly who isn't specifically in the same war as you counts as neutral reps, even if you are both legal targets for the person you are engaging, or that was true initially anyway, it's possible they've changed it, feel free to test and show me wrong.
So you can't make one large fleet, you can only put a bunch of tiny fleets in the same area. Meaning the wardeccers still win the fight since their logi doesn't go suspect and get shot at by everyone.

It actually works like this for Allie's in the same war, which is utterly stupid.

Ajem Hinken wrote:

Of course, then ppl would form wardec corps with high standings with NPC's and we'd have a bigger problem as ppl who don't have good NPC standings would whine even more. Perhaps make starting wardecs lower your standing with NPC's in the area, while defending would raise them? (Invert this for pirates ofc)

Any of the corps that make extensive use of locator agents , by virtue of the fact, will have excellent standings with two or more of the empires.
yes - that was silly of me to think. Still - a common enemy flag and shared agro timers should allow repping. It'd allow impromptu gatherings of ppl to actually properly fight without on the fly merging fifteen fleets.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6875494#post6875494 - Ship mounted explosives. Because explosions and Jita chaos.
Ajem Hinken
WarFear Gaming
#27 - 2017-03-17 02:15:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ajem Hinken
Removed - accidentally dubposted.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6875494#post6875494 - Ship mounted explosives. Because explosions and Jita chaos.
croakroach
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2017-03-17 12:54:37 UTC  |  Edited by: croakroach
Dealing with neutral logistics is quite easy, use a neutral lachesis or similar to damp and force them in range (3 guards to 14km lock), neut them if they get in range. Most neutral logistics are alts, just the damps alone will throw their fleet into chaos and rapidly spiral out of control as they switch to keeping people alive instead of fighting.

Likewise in corp logistics? Throw a pirate or suspect alt at them just before the fight. How many people do you know would give up a free kill? Now someone has a timer, when the in corp logistics hit them it will either fail (safety green) or make the chain go suspect (safety yellow), or break the chain (mix of safeties in the fleet). Apply same method as above and once again, fleet in panic mode.
croakroach
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2017-03-17 13:20:37 UTC
What wardecs are missing now are the ability to hunt down targets and what i would see the solution to be is a change to locator agents. We used to have awesome tools for hunting, and things were a bit cheaper, but this has degraded over time:


  • Locator agents lost the ability to inform of the marks ship name.
  • Watch list will now only show people online if they are mutual standing.
  • Alphas count as a member now, so inactive players add to war costs.


So what has happened is that the ones who actively hunted targets and contracts have degenerated to camping stations, gates, and pipes and waiting for the targets to come to them. Roaming 40 jumps and coming up empty handed while others sit on a gate and get 40 kills is not fun.

What i would like to see is locators able to work on a corporation or alliance: you specify a region for them to search and they return a list of say 10 random online players from that entity, their locations, and their ships if they are in space. If none are found, too bad.

I would also like to see a decent way to find bounties, the tool we have is not that good. I would recommend adding bounty information to ESI entities so we can build our own tools to find targets to hunt and possibly request to balance bounty payouts since they tend to be a tad low currently for some ships.
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