EVE General Discussion

Ive read your other input in this thread, and thought it good and valid.
Im sorry I havent addressed them, but Im dealing with a number of problematic posters concurrently, so I thought it best your posts stand on their own merit without involving you in my mess.

Now that you've addressed me specifically, ofc I will answer:

1) It would be similar to FW in terms of possibly running into an enemy anywhere in HS/LS, but without FW elements of missions and sector ownership. There is a nascent 360 degree circular spectrum of NPC Corp antagonism in EVE. My proposal entails each NPC Corp having a single perpetual enemy NPC Corp that is diametrically opposed.. FW is Empire/Militia NPC based player conflict. My proposal is NPC Corp player conflict.

2) NPCs will not intervene, not will CONCORD, in this current proposal. You may legally aggress, and be aggressed by, players in the NPC Corp opposing yours. Or they, and you, can pass each other by like ships in the night, cos neither of you want a fight. Up to you, and them. No NPC involvement or CONCORD, just between players.

3) At worst (or best, depending how you see it) this could result in a systemic Red vs Blue style HS wide NPC Corp player based conflict, where players intentionally buy into specific NPC Corps for the most targets in the opposing NPC Corps.

4) But no panic. There are so many NPC Corps in the spectrum, that this potential mass conflict between two NPC Corps can be easily avoided by joining one of the many other NPC Corps that have little population in their diametrically opposed enemy NPC Corp, or whom are less likely to aggress you.

5) I think the cost (figure can be debated) I propose to join an NPC Corp of your choosing, is rational. This is to equalize the cost of wardec vs avoiding it. Some may disagree, but I think if you choose the NPC option instead of the 6 other options I listed before, you should pay for it. Furthermore, my proposal allows an aggressor to continue pursuing you despite the NPC Corp jump, if they also pay the cost to do so per character. Some may say this enables griefing, I think it enables content.

1a) Yes, you are right and acute. Standings matter, as was a tentative secondary part of my proposal as to requirements for joining a specific NPC Corp as somewhere between 2-5.

I added it for the purposes of somewhat raising the threshold for active pursuit of a target, such that paying isk to join the opposing NPC Corp is not enough in and of itself, so as to avoid the stink of pay to win. I also hoped the standing issue might forestall too much population density in specific Corps of the post-change diametrically opposed NPC Corp memberships, thus giving levity to wardec escapees to find an NPC Corp their antagonist will have to work for to enter the opposing NPC Corp (Player standings data is public).

1b) Standing loss for defending yourself against an NPC corp based player, is complicated. This board explored this issue in regards to the peculiar Mining Fleet NPC assistance to a specific NPC Corp player population. I argued there, that player action informs the NPC Corps position on the matter, such that the NPC Corp doesnt care whether you, or your opponent, aggressed first. They always consider your actions in interest of the NPC Corp, and any action taken against you, as against the NPC Corp.

Thus, Im not all that concerned with standings tanking. If you've chosen to play in an NPC Corp in the system I propose, it is rational that the opposing NPC Corp will hate you the more action you take against their members, even if in self-defense.

1c) However, standings are more complicated than that. Any action taken against an NPC Corp (or players in it) has a fractional standing effect on other NPC Corps nearby that NPC Corp, in the 360 degree spectrum. Every action "bleeds" into a loss of standing with peripheral NPC entitied on the spectrum.

Again, Im not concerned by that. Thats just the price of doing business as a player in EVE.
The more you do of one thing in the interest of one NPC, the more others will hate you.

2) No worries. No NPCs warping in to ruin your fight, least of all CONCORD.
This is purely player vs player.
(albeit there will be standing losses, as is natural in EVE for taking action against the interests of an NPC Corp.)

3) I think players, both new and old, will accept being at risk from just one NPC Corps players.
To protect new players, just to be sure, lump them all in a a single NPE Corp for 30 days, and give them a 1 use option to join whichever NPC Corp they want during or at the end of that.

After that, its welcome to EVE.

I'd skill extract my toon and biomass before giving 1 cent to someone who "beat" me in a war. Remote reps still don't show on killmails, and the bounty system still doesn't work effectively. I don't trust CCP to get the terms of a war win or loss correct.

...an obligation to pew pew...

Just... NO!
Before undocking for pew pew I would trash all my ships and all my stuff.

Good.
Then there is no issue.
Your question was apparently rhetorical and Teckos answered it for you.
(Albeit, you STILL never answered my question to you)

My proposal does not change the cost of a wardec.
It only applies a cost to going NPC to avoid it, or inorder to pursue the target into NPC war.

The PVP in this game sucks. That's why a lot of people don't like it. High and low sec are all about finding targets to gank or avoiding being ganked. There is no "I lost because I didn't use this combat tactic". It's always "I lost because I forgot to check D-Scan" or "I lost because I didn't check for gate camps on my alt first".

PVPing early on doesn't change that design. It just makes it apparent earlier on that PVP in this game sucks.

In other games if you get ganked, you usually lose but you can maybe disable one of your attackers long enough to gain back the advantage or find a way to survive until someone on your side comes to help. This is not how EVE works at all. If you're found in the wrong situation, you just die.

Or..
" I lost because I don't understand range control"
" I lost because I'm no good at cap management"
"I lost because I suck at prioritizing targets"
" I lost because I don't know how to "bounce" an attacker into web range"
" I lost because I don't know how manual piloting works"
" I lost because I have no real understanding of how PvP actually works in Eve"



There are plenty of very good PvP'ers out there ( I make no claim to be one of them btw) who can, and do, fight and win against the odds. Watch some vids of people who actually know how to use their ships well to take on multiple foes, split them up, and kill them.
Certainly if you are in a PvE ship and you get caught, you are probably screwed, but don't ignore the nuances of a GF between experienced players. Ganking is a thing for sure, and it makes sense within the spirit of the game, but there are ways to pull off some amazing fighting....it's just not particularly easy to do.

When you boil it down, it is clear that NPC Corps are the reason for wardecs "not working", and for the lack of PvP content in HS (aside from suicide ganking).

The least, and softest change, to remedy this as I proposed, is a cost for going NPC (as well as standings to limit choices), and that even then, there is always one NPC Corps members as your legal targets, and you for them.

If it cant be done by PvP, then some other means are necessary to address HS.
Some may disagree, but I find the Jita monstrosity unhealthy for the game.

Some will argue its a result of player choice.
In my view, that is only a symptom of failing underlying mechanics which make such an abomination possible.

I believe HS should further be less attractive to be in, rather than enforcing the PvP element onto those who would like to remain in high-sec despite this.