These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Alphas and F2P Have Failed
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#181 - 2017-03-12 11:44:51 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Compared to the past piracy in highsec is at its easiest..


Nope sorry mate i think that's incorrect. Just because ganking is in the limelight right now doesn't mean by any stretch hisec is more dangerous now than in the past. Can mechanics were changed to support new players and limit piracy, neutral logistics was nerfed with suspect timers, everyone got a nice green safety button to prevent them getting into fights and all the publicity surrounding ganking in recent days means anyone who still gets ganked is either extremely unlucky or acting foolishly. Piracy is catagorically harder in hisec now than it used to be and less common. It is in fact perfectly safe enough for the average hisec PvE player to grind away billions of ISK mostly hassle free. I don't see your point aside from "some people in hisec are still able to be pee vee pee'd without their consent" which is the point of the game Pirate

Its not incorrect it is correct. Its never been easier to pirate anywhere in EvE as it currently is in High Security.

Piracy in high sec has not been nerfed its been buffed.

When Infinity Ziona was a young pilot around the end of 2003 she went to low sat on a gate and killed people until she was -9. She then had to join Stain Alliance and spend 3 weeks grinding sec before she could go back to high sec.

If I did the same thing with her today I could be back in high the same day.

That's only one aspect of the difficulty reduction. Other things like 2003 battleship DPS coming out of cheap frigs like cats and SB are also significant factors as are accelerated ISK faucets making easily replaceable suicide fleets possible.

Ganking in high in the early years was not easy which is why you had corps like Zombie getting banned for exploiting grids to do what happens on a daily basis today in Niarja Udaema


Those are both strangely ganking specific (although you made out it was a lowsec thing). I can only assume you really just hate ganking and are using "piracy" as an alias for ganking specifically.


Infinity Ziona wrote:
Spoken like a true noob


This makes you sound like a total dweeb Pirate

The point is clear - to lose sec status which is not ganking specific its 1.0 through 0.1 sec specific it was much much harder to recover. A session of high sec ganking would have meant weeks in null chaining rats in belts. We didn't have easy mode sec loss sec gain, no on tap anoms or incursions or tags to buy.

Its not dweebiness its that I understand the difference between now and then. How many people who started EvE do you know minef their first battleship in a thorax. There have been huge changes in the game you're incapable of understanding them because you didn't experience them. I did so have a thorough understanding.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Keno Skir
#182 - 2017-03-12 11:54:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Keno Skir
Infinity Ziona wrote:
The point is clear - to lose sec status which is not ganking specific its 1.0 through 0.1 sec specific it was much much harder to recover. A session of high sec ganking would have meant weeks in null chaining rats in belts. We didn't have easy mode sec loss sec gain, no on tap anoms or incursions or tags to buy.

Its not dweebiness its that I understand the difference between now and then. How many people who started EvE do you know minef their first battleship in a thorax. There have been huge changes in the game you're incapable of understanding them because you didn't experience them. I did so have a thorough understanding.


I've been around pretty much as long as you Ziona so don't try to lord it here.

I thought we were talking about piracy, but this is just another tired re-hash of the old ganking crutch. Ganking isn't really a big deal anyway as long as you don't read carebear whine threads. The VAST majority of freighters just go about their business in peace. Your understanding is blinkered.

EDIT : Yes calling someone a noob for disagreeing with you is Dweeby, Sad, Salty & Butt-Hurt regardless if you've been playing longer than them, and even if you know more than them.

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#183 - 2017-03-12 11:58:43 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

HS is relatively safe. It is not safe if you want to be a complete idiot.


It is relatively safe for someone like myself with 1000s of hours and multiple characters into the game - I rarely get ganked unless I get complacent or someone takes their time to study and target me specifically. For many new players though that isn't the case - many are easy prey and fed on by the bottom feeders - 4 out of 5 people that I've tried to get into the game and have quit have cited being ganked, usually more than once, before they could understand the game being the primary reason and that is after I've tried to guide them around the main pitfalls.

Personally though I'm not a big fan of making highsec too safe I like the potential and challenges that it can bring.
Keno Skir
#184 - 2017-03-12 12:02:29 UTC
Rroff wrote:
4 out of 5 people that I've tried to get into the game and have quit have cited being ganked, usually more than once, before they could understand the game being the primary reason and that is after I've tried to guide them around the main pitfalls.


So did you tell them to fit a solid tank and not to carry more than X amount in cargo? If you did tell them and they still got ganked is that really "them not understanding the game" or is it them ignoring advice and losing as a result?

Sounds like you should help these people out, that you get into the game. If you educate them they won't be bottom feeder food anymore..

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#185 - 2017-03-12 12:07:53 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

HS is relatively safe. It is not safe if you want to be a complete idiot.


It is relatively safe for someone like myself with 1000s of hours and multiple characters into the game - I rarely get ganked unless I get complacent or someone takes their time to study and target me specifically. For many new players though that isn't the case - many are easy prey and fed on by the bottom feeders - 4 out of 5 people that I've tried to get into the game and have quit have cited being ganked, usually more than once, before they could understand the game being the primary reason and that is after I've tried to guide them around the main pitfalls.

Personally though I'm not a big fan of making highsec too safe I like the potential and challenges that it can bring.


what kind of people run away after being killed once? looooooool Shocked
like for real? exist people that give up after 1 try? What?
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#186 - 2017-03-12 12:11:48 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:

So did you tell them to fit a solid tank and not to carry more than X amount in cargo? If you did tell them and they still got ganked is that really "them not understanding the game" or is it them ignoring advice and losing as a result?

Sounds like you should help these people out, that you get into the game. If you educate them they won't be bottom feeder food anymore..


Always - but people will always do their own thing - you can lead em to water but you can't make them drink.

Soel Reit wrote:

what kind of people run away after being killed once? looooooool Shocked
like for real? exist people that give up after 1 try? What?


Some do - sadly more than once people have decided to undock with PLEX despite me telling them multiple times not to do that ever - when they see a month's subscription (or more) go down the drain having only played for a couple of weeks they usually quit.
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#187 - 2017-03-12 12:12:13 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
the alpha and f2p plan failed

it should be just free to play all the way and for increased skill training sub..

also gankers should be banned permanently for griefing of any kind and afk cloaking.



Go away, you're talking bull poo.
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#188 - 2017-03-12 12:16:08 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:

So did you tell them to fit a solid tank and not to carry more than X amount in cargo? If you did tell them and they still got ganked is that really "them not understanding the game" or is it them ignoring advice and losing as a result?

Sounds like you should help these people out, that you get into the game. If you educate them they won't be bottom feeder food anymore..


Always - but people will always do their own thing - you can lead em to water but you can't make them drink.

Soel Reit wrote:

what kind of people run away after being killed once? looooooool Shocked
like for real? exist people that give up after 1 try? What?


Some do - sadly more than once people have decided to undock with PLEX despite me telling them multiple times not to do that ever - when they see a month's subscription (or more) go down the drain having only played for a couple of weeks they usually quit.


clearly people not adapt at eve and its law: the jungle law...
better that they've gone Cool

eve is not a mainstream game adapt for all and never will be
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#189 - 2017-03-12 12:27:52 UTC
Soel Reit wrote:


clearly people not adapt at eve and its law: the jungle law...
better that they've gone Cool

eve is not a mainstream game adapt for all and never will be


True on the last bit but ultimately it does need enough active and paying customers to keep the game going and funding updates of future content, etc.
Keno Skir
#190 - 2017-03-12 14:23:09 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Soel Reit wrote:


clearly people not adapt at eve and its law: the jungle law...
better that they've gone Cool

eve is not a mainstream game adapt for all and never will be


True on the last bit but ultimately it does need enough active and paying customers to keep the game going and funding updates of future content, etc.


But only people who can accept the core elements, the rest are chaff and rightly so.

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#191 - 2017-03-12 15:32:22 UTC
Soel Reit wrote:
piemmed you milla!
Cool

am i the only one that laugh so much when i read in the patch notes:

Relaxed the throttling on giving orders to Fighter Squadrons. This should result in less occurrences of busy squadrons during high APM usage.



and start imagining HIGH APM USAGE in a battle of 3k people in 10% TiDi?
are the devs trolling or at what kind of game are they playing atm instead of eve?

Heh... here you not having any ideas about ratting in a supercarrier? Lol

I will answer: supercarrier does Haven in like 5-6 minutes. And this is like 6-8 waves of NPC. And for each NPC ship you need to select fighter and give it a command. Lots of clicks...

And with this patch they add whole bunch of additional clickfest to it: now you will need to order additional command to fighters to orbit something while they are finishing current target. Else new spawn of NPC can wreck some of fighters before you even lock new target.....

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#192 - 2017-03-12 16:26:46 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Soel Reit wrote:
piemmed you milla!
Cool

am i the only one that laugh so much when i read in the patch notes:

Relaxed the throttling on giving orders to Fighter Squadrons. This should result in less occurrences of busy squadrons during high APM usage.



and start imagining HIGH APM USAGE in a battle of 3k people in 10% TiDi?
are the devs trolling or at what kind of game are they playing atm instead of eve?

Heh... here you not having any ideas about ratting in a supercarrier? Lol

I will answer: supercarrier does Haven in like 5-6 minutes. And this is like 6-8 waves of NPC. And for each NPC ship you need to select fighter and give it a command. Lots of clicks...

And with this patch they add whole bunch of additional clickfest to it: now you will need to order additional command to fighters to orbit something while they are finishing current target. Else new spawn of NPC can wreck some of fighters before you even lock new target.....


oh you mean the same people that are frequently on the kb with supers etc??
or even titans like that fcon dude??

ohhh i see Cool
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#193 - 2017-03-12 18:25:46 UTC
Soel Reit wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Soel Reit wrote:
piemmed you milla!
Cool

am i the only one that laugh so much when i read in the patch notes:

Relaxed the throttling on giving orders to Fighter Squadrons. This should result in less occurrences of busy squadrons during high APM usage.



and start imagining HIGH APM USAGE in a battle of 3k people in 10% TiDi?
are the devs trolling or at what kind of game are they playing atm instead of eve?

Heh... here you not having any ideas about ratting in a supercarrier? Lol

I will answer: supercarrier does Haven in like 5-6 minutes. And this is like 6-8 waves of NPC. And for each NPC ship you need to select fighter and give it a command. Lots of clicks...

And with this patch they add whole bunch of additional clickfest to it: now you will need to order additional command to fighters to orbit something while they are finishing current target. Else new spawn of NPC can wreck some of fighters before you even lock new target.....


oh you mean the same people that are frequently on the kb with supers etc??
or even titans like that fcon dude??

ohhh i see Cool

hm? We were talking about CCP, fighters and high APM....

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#194 - 2017-03-12 18:39:35 UTC
I thought we were talking about CCP and F2P...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#195 - 2017-03-12 18:53:18 UTC
i'm lost :/ someone can give me a HS k162 pls?
xD
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#196 - 2017-03-12 19:02:16 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Spoken like a true noob:

I clearly described the major buffs. Reduction in sec loss, addition in sec gains from PvE, sec gaining items, the isk faucets of anoms, moons, incursions easily offsets tag prices, buffing of wrecks so they can't be popped.

As stated already having to spend 3 weeks in null to grind up made ganking much much harder. That was the only way to raise it reliably and it was slow as ****.

Your comments about catalysts not being able to do what megas can do demonstrates why I generally laugh at your posts. Any EvE veteran knows cats do old mega damage. Or do you think we were undocking back then in 2016 megathrons?

Also the insurance changes mean jack - dessies / SB are so cheap you do same DPS and lose the fitting costs of a Battleship without having to insure the battleship :)


Isn't one of your mantras that sec status means little to nothing? How can a change to a mechanic that means nothing be either a buff or nerf?

Moons are not ISK sources. And so what that there are ISK sources like anoms, mission and incursions? Just because there is a source of ISK does not mean using tags is trivial. Basically unless those players utilizing those ISK sources are the same one buying tags this point makes no sense. It is like the follow:

A: Bob has it easy.
B: Why?
A: Because Mary is rich!
B: What does that have to do with Bob?
A: You are such a noob if you can't see it!
B: Mary doesn't even like Bob though...

How much does it cost to fix one's sec status. How much to go from -10 to 0? You keep pointing to having to go to NS to fix your sec status. But all tags have done is make that time fungible. Instead of spending the time, the player has the option to spend the ISK.

Further, perhaps you haven't noticed but most -5 and lower players have adapted to having such a sec status. Removing tags won't change that. Further, removing tags might bring forth new adaptations like Goons and their sec status safaris.

And the insurance change means it costs more to gank--i.e. it is harder. Further, it increases risk on any given gank. With no insurance and an unkind loot fairy any given gank can be for a loss, particularly if you are ganking a ship with say everything in a single stack, a single expensive item, or even a double warped package. In other words, the downside to ganking was quite low in the old days. And I used to do the calculations to determine the cargo value I could carry and be somewhat sure I'd not get ganked. It was 0.8-1 billion...not unlike today.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#197 - 2017-03-12 19:09:20 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

HS is relatively safe. It is not safe if you want to be a complete idiot.


It is relatively safe for someone like myself with 1000s of hours and multiple characters into the game - I rarely get ganked unless I get complacent or someone takes their time to study and target me specifically. For many new players though that isn't the case - many are easy prey and fed on by the bottom feeders - 4 out of 5 people that I've tried to get into the game and have quit have cited being ganked, usually more than once, before they could understand the game being the primary reason and that is after I've tried to guide them around the main pitfalls.

Personally though I'm not a big fan of making highsec too safe I like the potential and challenges that it can bring.


It is called learning by doing or trial-and-error. You make a mistake and learn from that mistake. It is a self-correcting process. If you take away that process people cannot learn. They cannot learn that prudence trumps imprudence. It is a good thing when you think about it for awhile.

And for new players the analysis by CCP suggests that when they are killed they tend to stay longer and that it is quite rare, at least for suicide ganks.

Might want to have a chat with your friends if they are getting repeatedly ganked while still new. If it is true, then they are doing something very imprudent...repeatedly.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#198 - 2017-03-12 19:11:23 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:

So did you tell them to fit a solid tank and not to carry more than X amount in cargo? If you did tell them and they still got ganked is that really "them not understanding the game" or is it them ignoring advice and losing as a result?

Sounds like you should help these people out, that you get into the game. If you educate them they won't be bottom feeder food anymore..


Always - but people will always do their own thing - you can lead em to water but you can't make them drink.


Exactly. If they are going to be idiots in HS and then get ganked for it and not learn from it, I fail to see how that is my problem and not their problem.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Ramiel Wayfarer
#199 - 2017-03-12 20:45:17 UTC
All good things come to a end eventually, Eve online being one of them unfortunately....I will be sad to see the game end but it just isn't the same anymore, The 20-30 friends i roamed with never log in anymore and im the only one left, Alot of the game mechanics changed and made the game worse in my opinion, I still pay my subs and log in occasionally to do my training but that is it, I hope CCP pull there finger out and save eve i really do.

Fingers Crossed
Rami
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#200 - 2017-03-12 21:30:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Teckos Pech wrote:

It is called learning by doing or trial-and-error. You make a mistake and learn from that mistake. It is a self-correcting process. If you take away that process people cannot learn. They cannot learn that prudence trumps imprudence. It is a good thing when you think about it for awhile.

And for new players the analysis by CCP suggests that when they are killed they tend to stay longer and that it is quite rare, at least for suicide ganks.

Might want to have a chat with your friends if they are getting repeatedly ganked while still new. If it is true, then they are doing something very imprudent...repeatedly.


I'm not suggesting taking away that process but there is certainly some improvements to the way it unfolds in the early part of the game if the name is player retention - ultimately the figures tell a story no matter what romanticised version of it CCP comes up with or philosophical bs some players come out with.

I've offered a lot of advice and support but there is only so much you can do when someone is faced with both the steep learning curve of Eve and possibly negative interactions with other players - those that have persisted have tended to be the ones that haven't been ganked early on - in some cases that might be because they are smarter, quicker on the uptake or more persistent but in some cases its just luck and/or the path they happened to chose avoided it.

Teckos Pech wrote:

Exactly. If they are going to be idiots in HS and then get ganked for it and not learn from it, I fail to see how that is my problem and not their problem.


Well ultimately it comes down to whether Eve can afford to lose those players who take a bit longer to get upto speed than others - ultimately the game is in a much better places the more active and the more invested into it is. I'm not really a fan of the attitude of who should and shouldn't play the game, maybe their involvement in some parts of the game.