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Author
Amojin
Doomheim
#201 - 2017-03-09 21:35:06 UTC
Don't care, Cade. Linear is fair, sometimes. Your multiboxing **** is actually exponential, in profit, on both sides.

There is a reason we slammed you into the ground, right at the start. The biggest reason is that playing on our MU* system was free.

You couldn't bribe us, extort us, or make us do anything but laugh when you wanted to cheat.
Quinn Hatfield
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2017-03-09 21:44:03 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Don't care, Cade. Linear is fair, sometimes. Your multiboxing **** is actually exponential, in profit, on both sides.

There is a reason we slammed you into the ground, right at the start. The biggest reason is that playing on our MU* system was free.

You couldn't bribe us, extort us, or make us do anything but laugh when you wanted to cheat.
You use the word cheat quite a bit, do you know what it means?


I don't burn bridges, I merely steal a bolt a day.

Amojin
Doomheim
#203 - 2017-03-09 21:45:22 UTC
Quinn Hatfield wrote:
Amojin wrote:
Don't care, Cade. Linear is fair, sometimes. Your multiboxing **** is actually exponential, in profit, on both sides.

There is a reason we slammed you into the ground, right at the start. The biggest reason is that playing on our MU* system was free.

You couldn't bribe us, extort us, or make us do anything but laugh when you wanted to cheat.
You use the word cheat quite a bit, do you know what it means?




I guess not? Can you help me? What does it mean?
Cade Windstalker
#204 - 2017-03-09 21:55:53 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Don't care, Cade. Linear is fair, sometimes. Your multiboxing **** is actually exponential, in profit, on both sides.

There is a reason we slammed you into the ground, right at the start. The biggest reason is that playing on our MU* system was free.

You couldn't bribe us, extort us, or make us do anything but laugh when you wanted to cheat.


It's actually not. Each account has diminishing returns due to limitations on control, and it loses entirely to individual players cooperating together in terms of efficiency and ROI. You would understand this if you had better knowledge of the thing you're deriding so vehemently.

The only time it even comes close to "exponential returns" is when a second account lets you do something you could otherwise not do at all, and almost all of that either got removed with the Input Broadcasting ban or has been removed as necessary gameplay by CCP's changes, like allowing capitals to take gates and various deployables like Mobile Depots or Mobile Tractor Units.

Also, as I've mentioned before, I don't personally multibox outside of moving stuff around, and even that incurs increased risk compared to moving each character one at a time, so your use of the term "you" in this instance is erroneous at best.
Quinn Hatfield
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#205 - 2017-03-09 21:56:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Quinn Hatfield
Amojin wrote:
Quinn Hatfield wrote:
Amojin wrote:
Don't care, Cade. Linear is fair, sometimes. Your multiboxing **** is actually exponential, in profit, on both sides.

There is a reason we slammed you into the ground, right at the start. The biggest reason is that playing on our MU* system was free.

You couldn't bribe us, extort us, or make us do anything but laugh when you wanted to cheat.
You use the word cheat quite a bit, do you know what it means?




I guess not? Can you help me? What does it mean?
That much is evident.

Cheating is being dishonest, gaining unfair advantage, breaking rules etc.

How is multi-boxing cheating? It's not dishonest, it's not an unfair advantage as such because multiple accounts are available to everybody if they want them, and it's certainly not breaking the rules of THIS game.

I don't burn bridges, I merely steal a bolt a day.

Amojin
Doomheim
#206 - 2017-03-09 21:58:05 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Amojin wrote:
Don't care, Cade. Linear is fair, sometimes. Your multiboxing **** is actually exponential, in profit, on both sides.

There is a reason we slammed you into the ground, right at the start. The biggest reason is that playing on our MU* system was free.

You couldn't bribe us, extort us, or make us do anything but laugh when you wanted to cheat.


It's actually not. Each account has diminishing returns due to limitations on control, and it loses entirely to individual players cooperating together in terms of efficiency and ROI. You would understand this if you had better knowledge of the thing you're deriding so vehemently.

The only time it even comes close to "exponential returns" is when a second account lets you do something you could otherwise not do at all, and almost all of that either got removed with the Input Broadcasting ban or has been removed as necessary gameplay by CCP's changes, like allowing capitals to take gates and various deployables like Mobile Depots or Mobile Tractor Units.

Also, as I've mentioned before, I don't personally multibox outside of moving stuff around, and even that incurs increased risk compared to moving each character one at a time, so your use of the term "you" in this instance is erroneous at best.


Hmm. You have some valid points. I'm a llitle over than a year old. What you say, you, new alphas? If you feel like responding, does what this man say bear out your experiences? Do you feel at any level of parity with the veterans?
Amojin
Doomheim
#207 - 2017-03-09 22:01:57 UTC
Quinn Hatfield wrote:
How is multi-boxing cheating? It's not dishonest, it's not an unfair advantage as such because multiple accounts are available to everybody if they want them, and it's certainly not breaking the rules of THIS game.



Sure it is. You were smart to call it a game, not a sport, though. In a sport, the teams and gear are equal. The winner is determined by skill, alone.

In real life, just to offer you an example, in the area of Los Angeles I grew up in, Hispanic immigrants outnumbered both blacks and whites. You know what, for all the garbage, when the **** hits the fan, blacks don't hate whites all that much. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. But Mexicans still outnumbered us both. What did they hate us for? We didn't do anything to them. They just hated,

Haters gonna hate, yup yup. Same thing, in your game. Numbers. Don't act like this place is some sort of online sport. It's an online simulation of real society.
Quinn Hatfield
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#208 - 2017-03-09 22:04:08 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Quinn Hatfield wrote:
How is multi-boxing cheating? It's not dishonest, it's not an unfair advantage as such because multiple accounts are available to everybody if they want them, and it's certainly not breaking the rules of THIS game.



Sure it is. You were smart to call it a game, not a sport, though. In a sport, the teams and gear are equal. The winner is determined by skill, alone.

In real life, just to offer you an example, in the area of Los Angeles I grew up in, Hispanic immigrants outnumbered both blacks and whites. You know what, for all the garbage, when the **** hits the fan, blacks don't hate whites all that much. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. But Mexicans still outnumbered us both. What did they hate us for? We didn't do anything to them. They just hated,

Haters gonna hate, yup yup. Same thing, in your game. Numbers. Don't act like this place is some sort of online sport. It's an online simulation of real society.
WTF does that have to do with internet spaceships and your use of the term cheat to describe anything you don't like?


I don't burn bridges, I merely steal a bolt a day.

Amojin
Doomheim
#209 - 2017-03-09 22:07:24 UTC
Quinn Hatfield wrote:
Amojin wrote:
Quinn Hatfield wrote:
How is multi-boxing cheating? It's not dishonest, it's not an unfair advantage as such because multiple accounts are available to everybody if they want them, and it's certainly not breaking the rules of THIS game.



Sure it is. You were smart to call it a game, not a sport, though. In a sport, the teams and gear are equal. The winner is determined by skill, alone.

In real life, just to offer you an example, in the area of Los Angeles I grew up in, Hispanic immigrants outnumbered both blacks and whites. You know what, for all the garbage, when the **** hits the fan, blacks don't hate whites all that much. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. But Mexicans still outnumbered us both. What did they hate us for? We didn't do anything to them. They just hated,

Haters gonna hate, yup yup. Same thing, in your game. Numbers. Don't act like this place is some sort of online sport. It's an online simulation of real society.
WTF does that have to do with internet spaceships and your use of the term cheat to describe anything you don't like?



Let's wait and see if the noobs feel that yours and Cade's position is right? Don't be so hasty...
Quinn Hatfield
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#210 - 2017-03-09 22:11:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Quinn Hatfield
Amojin wrote:
Quinn Hatfield wrote:
WTF does that have to do with internet spaceships and your use of the term cheat to describe anything you don't like?



Let's wait and see if the noobs feel that yours and Cade's position is right? Don't be so hasty...
Dodging the question makes you look like an idiot.

Multi-boxing is not cheating, newbs (not noobs, they're a different kettle of fish) have had to deal with more experienced players for over a decade, numbers are how they make up for the disadvantages of being new.

I don't burn bridges, I merely steal a bolt a day.

Cade Windstalker
#211 - 2017-03-09 22:12:27 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Hmm. You have some valid points. I'm a llitle over than a year old. What you say, you, new alphas? If you feel like responding, does what this man say bear out your experiences? Do you feel at any level of parity with the veterans?


This is a bit of a ridiculous question, of course they don't. Eve is a game about building yourself up and tearing other things down. For that to work there has to be somewhere to build from and somewhere to build to, rather than everyone achieving parity quickly and easily. Even World of Warcraft doesn't have anything like that, and its progression is *much* faster than Eve's.

You've also now sidestepped the point I was making about solo accounts vs regular accounts and are trying to make it something about veteran players vs alpha clone newbies. Stop moving the goalposts when someone calls out your bad logic and incorrect information.
Amojin
Doomheim
#212 - 2017-03-09 22:14:28 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Amojin wrote:
Hmm. You have some valid points. I'm a llitle over than a year old. What you say, you, new alphas? If you feel like responding, does what this man say bear out your experiences? Do you feel at any level of parity with the veterans?


This is a bit of a ridiculous question, of course they don't. Eve is a game about building yourself up and tearing other things down. For that to work there has to be somewhere to build from and somewhere to build to, rather than everyone achieving parity quickly and easily. Even World of Warcraft doesn't have anything like that, and its progression is *much* faster than Eve's.

You've also now sidestepped the point I was making about solo accounts vs regular accounts and are trying to make it something about veteran players vs alpha clone newbies. Stop moving the goalposts when someone calls out your bad logic and incorrect information.


Really? But I've read a lot of blogs and comments on here that say that yes, if a noob is really, really good, really specific, about selecting combat skills, he can reach parity in defending himself, really fast...

You admit that's a lie?
Amojin
Doomheim
#213 - 2017-03-09 22:15:59 UTC
Quinn Hatfield wrote:
Amojin wrote:
Quinn Hatfield wrote:
WTF does that have to do with internet spaceships and your use of the term cheat to describe anything you don't like?



Let's wait and see if the noobs feel that yours and Cade's position is right? Don't be so hasty...
Dodging the question makes you look like an idiot.

Multi-boxing is not cheating, newbs (not noobs, they're a different kettle of fish) have had to deal with more experienced players for over a decade, numbers are how they make up for the disadvantages of being new.


*****, excuse me, ma'am, I have 'looked' like an idiot all my life. I'm not intimidated by the evil and stupid hordes.
Quinn Hatfield
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#214 - 2017-03-09 22:21:08 UTC
Amojin wrote:
*****, excuse me, ma'am, I have 'looked' like an idiot all my life. I'm not intimidated by the evil and stupid hordes.
Have you considered that you're not intimidated by the evil and stupid hordes, because you're a member of the evil and stupid hordes?

I don't burn bridges, I merely steal a bolt a day.

Amojin
Doomheim
#215 - 2017-03-09 22:21:45 UTC
Quinn Hatfield wrote:
Amojin wrote:
*****, excuse me, ma'am, I have 'looked' like an idiot all my life. I'm not intimidated by the evil and stupid hordes.
Have you considered that you're not intimidated by the evil and stupid hordes, because you're a member of the evil and stupid hordes?


Yes.
Amojin
Doomheim
#216 - 2017-03-09 22:27:42 UTC
Cade Windstalker
#217 - 2017-03-09 23:04:35 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Really? But I've read a lot of blogs and comments on here that say that yes, if a noob is really, really good, really specific, about selecting combat skills, he can reach parity in defending himself, really fast...

You admit that's a lie?


Nope, a newb (seriously, newb != noob, learn the difference) can reach SP and ship parity with a more experienced player fairly quickly if they focus on a specific thing. Even more so now than before now that Skill Injectors are a thing, since a dedicated player can earn money to boost themselves toward their SP goal even faster.

A newb is not the same thing as an alpha clone player though. You specifically said Alpha, not "new player".

Also reaching mechanical parity at one thing is not the same thing as being good at it or as having the same breadth or depth of experience as someone with more time with the game. Someone with a little bit of talent, a willingness to learn, and some dedication will absolutely skunk even someone with more SP than them, especially if they're tactically and strategically savvy, SP is a small boost, it's not what determines who wins or loses a fight.

Now please stop side-stepping away from your original point, it's really just making you look foolish and ignorant.
Amojin
Doomheim
#218 - 2017-03-09 23:06:45 UTC
Fine, Cade. What in my 'original' post are you whining about? I didn't make this thread...
Cade Windstalker
#219 - 2017-03-09 23:12:13 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Fine, Cade. What in my 'original' post are you whining about? I didn't make this thread...


How about the one I responded to originally, for a start...

Though this is, once again, a deflection. We both know you're perfectly capable of following the thread of this conversation back, you just don't care to do so. You're just going to keep deflecting and side-stepping because you're not actually here to debate, you're here to make vague points about things that annoy you for some reason or other that you've concocted for yourself.

If you were really here to discuss or debate anything you'd be conducting yourself very differently.
Quinn Hatfield
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#220 - 2017-03-09 23:14:34 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Fine, Cade. What in my 'original' post are you whining about? I didn't make this thread...
No you didn't, but you certainly appear to be trying to drive it off topic.

Driving things off topic seems to be a recurring theme for you.

I don't burn bridges, I merely steal a bolt a day.