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Is transport too easy?
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Veyreuth
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2017-03-07 17:15:53 UTC
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:
Guys its page 3, how am I the first to point out that a nerf to JF's will simply send more blockade runners and DSTs thru wormhole chains from null to high?


I don't think that's a game breaker... J-Space isn't exactly the safest place. If a lot more blockade runners and DST's go through wormhole chains, there will be a lot more wormhole corporations hunting them. You will still have achieved additional content.

It takes time and effort to locate these wormholes and map out entrances and exits. Between the time it takes to scan a route down and getting a transport operation active, any part of the chain of wormholes could get rolled, leaving the fleet hanging in a number of precarious positions.

A limited number of ships can pass through a wormhole before it collapses, so considering every null sec corporation can have JF pilots that make daily runs and only a handful of transports can go through a given wormhole before it collapses, there would be a reduction of the total number of transports going in and out of null, forcing corporations to be more strategic about what they import, export, and produce locally.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#62 - 2017-03-07 17:20:28 UTC
Amojin wrote:


Civilians usually take great efforts to protect themselves, and well they should. We're not supposed to be hitting them, anyway. A transport ship is, by definition, a non-combatant.


There is no such thing as a civilian in EVE Online. "We're not supposed to be hitting them"? WTF can if sentiment is that?
Amojin
Doomheim
#63 - 2017-03-07 17:22:58 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Amojin wrote:


Civilians usually take great efforts to protect themselves, and well they should. We're not supposed to be hitting them, anyway. A transport ship is, by definition, a non-combatant.


There is no such thing as a civilian in EVE Online. "We're not supposed to be hitting them"? WTF can if sentiment is that?


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6863051#post6863051
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#64 - 2017-03-07 17:27:30 UTC
Veyreuth wrote:
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:
Guys its page 3, how am I the first to point out that a nerf to JF's will simply send more blockade runners and DSTs thru wormhole chains from null to high?


I don't think that's a game breaker... J-Space isn't exactly the safest place. If a lot more blockade runners and DST's go through wormhole chains, there will be a lot more wormhole corporations hunting them. You will still have achieved additional content.

It takes time and effort to locate these wormholes and map out entrances and exits. Between the time it takes to scan a route down and getting a transport operation active, any part of the chain of wormholes could get rolled, leaving the fleet hanging in a number of precarious positions.

A limited number of ships can pass through a wormhole before it collapses, so considering every null sec corporation can have JF pilots that make daily runs and only a handful of transports can go through a given wormhole before it collapses, there would be a reduction of the total number of transports going in and out of null, forcing corporations to be more strategic about what they import, export, and produce locally.


Can get over 150 jumps out of something like a prowler before you massed the average wormhole :D about half that for a DST.

DSTs would get caught a reasonable amount of time but a properly fit/piloted BR can evade all but the most experienced, double bubbled, wormhole camps.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#65 - 2017-03-07 17:27:35 UTC
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:
Guys its page 3, how am I the first to point out that a nerf to JF's will simply send more blockade runners and DSTs thru wormhole chains from null to high?


It stops working when you hit a certain density of people in an area. You won't be able to supply a hub for thousands of players out of DSTs and BRs across WHs.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#66 - 2017-03-07 17:33:43 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Veyreuth wrote:
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:
Guys its page 3, how am I the first to point out that a nerf to JF's will simply send more blockade runners and DSTs thru wormhole chains from null to high?


I don't think that's a game breaker... J-Space isn't exactly the safest place. If a lot more blockade runners and DST's go through wormhole chains, there will be a lot more wormhole corporations hunting them. You will still have achieved additional content.

It takes time and effort to locate these wormholes and map out entrances and exits. Between the time it takes to scan a route down and getting a transport operation active, any part of the chain of wormholes could get rolled, leaving the fleet hanging in a number of precarious positions.

A limited number of ships can pass through a wormhole before it collapses, so considering every null sec corporation can have JF pilots that make daily runs and only a handful of transports can go through a given wormhole before it collapses, there would be a reduction of the total number of transports going in and out of null, forcing corporations to be more strategic about what they import, export, and produce locally.


Can get over 150 jumps out of something like a prowler before you massed the average wormhole :D about half that for a DST.

DSTs would get caught a reasonable amount of time but a properly fit/piloted BR can evade all but the most experienced, double bubbled, wormhole camps.


A full cargo fit Prowler even with ORE expander and T2 rigs because why not need over 9 trips to haul what a single full bulkhead Rhea. I don't know about your logistics dudes but I'm pretty sure mine would never want to deal with that amount of trips.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#67 - 2017-03-07 17:42:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Frostys Virpio wrote:

A full cargo fit Prowler even with ORE expander and T2 rigs because why not need over 9 trips to haul what a single full bulkhead Rhea. I don't know about your logistics dudes but I'm pretty sure mine would never want to deal with that amount of trips.


It was more about the viability of using wormholes chains versus mass - the post I replied to alluded to it being a bit easier to collapse a wormhole link with repeated transport runs than it is (unless he was meaning JFs through WHs) - it isn't as bad as trying to move a lot of battleships, etc. where you can mass them very quickly.

I don't really play any more but I could multibox 4x prowlers when I stopped playing which would make it relatively painless - though tricky to manage more than 2 at a time through dangerous space.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#68 - 2017-03-07 20:51:34 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Anatolians eat meat, right? They sure look like sheep. They clean the sheep, they wander around with them. They have even been observed to play with them.

But, at the end of the day, that ain't no sheep. Play how you want.


Do you actually listen to yourself when you talk? Answer my question please. I think you think you're being witty, but I have bad news for you...
Amojin
Doomheim
#69 - 2017-03-07 20:58:11 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Amojin wrote:
Anatolians eat meat, right? They sure look like sheep. They clean the sheep, they wander around with them. They have even been observed to play with them.

But, at the end of the day, that ain't no sheep. Play how you want.


Do you actually listen to yourself when you talk? Answer my question please. I think you think you're being witty, but I have bad news for you...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYJ88MHPyF8

I make too many assumptions that everyone follows every thread. Sorry. I read almost all of them, and I guess I expected people kept up. They don't, because they have focused interests, and not general interests. My mistake. Can you forgive me?
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#70 - 2017-03-07 21:01:25 UTC
Veyreuth wrote:
Thoughts?


Transport is pretty easy.

I put up a public courier contract and my stuff arrives usually within a couple of hours.

It doesn't get much easier (or cheaper) than that.

Mr Epeen Cool
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#71 - 2017-03-07 21:13:12 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
We do have a problem with not enough stuff getting exploded.


Making the trade lanes between empire and null isn't gonna solve that tho.


Wouldn't hurt.

Thanks to citadels getting a JF around is pretty safe now.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#72 - 2017-03-07 21:19:18 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
We do have a problem with not enough stuff getting exploded.


Making the trade lanes between empire and null isn't gonna solve that tho.


Wouldn't hurt.

Thanks to citadels getting a JF around is pretty safe now.


What are the actual repercussion of JF not making it to staging points in null? Is it less total destruction than the JF getting exploded?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#73 - 2017-03-07 21:29:35 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:


What are the actual repercussion of JF not making it to staging points in null? Is it less total destruction than the JF getting exploded?


A JF exploding means it and whatever it was carrying needs to be replaced. Lets face it, you have to be doing something rather impressively dumb to get one killed these days in low and null space.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#74 - 2017-03-07 21:33:58 UTC
Amojin wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYJ88MHPyF8

I make too many assumptions that everyone follows every thread. Sorry. I read almost all of them, and I guess I expected people kept up. They don't, because they have focused interests, and not general interests. My mistake. Can you forgive me?


Talking to you is as useful as trying to herd cats
Amojin
Doomheim
#75 - 2017-03-07 21:37:20 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Amojin wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYJ88MHPyF8

I make too many assumptions that everyone follows every thread. Sorry. I read almost all of them, and I guess I expected people kept up. They don't, because they have focused interests, and not general interests. My mistake. Can you forgive me?


Talking to you is as useful as trying to herd cats


Then I guess the answer is no. Yet, I still don't hate you.

On a separate note... Why are you trying to herd cats? If they love you, they come when you call them. Mine always do. Herding them?

Please.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#76 - 2017-03-07 21:41:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Amojin wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Amojin wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYJ88MHPyF8

I make too many assumptions that everyone follows every thread. Sorry. I read almost all of them, and I guess I expected people kept up. They don't, because they have focused interests, and not general interests. My mistake. Can you forgive me?


Talking to you is as useful as trying to herd cats


Then I guess the answer is no. Yet, I still don't hate you.

On a separate note... Why are you trying to herd cats? If they love you, they come when you call them. Mine always do. Herding them?

Please.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herding_cats

The first explanation pretty much describes what discussing things with you is like, though it isn't about control. Just trying to have a reasonable chat is impossible.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Amojin
Doomheim
#77 - 2017-03-07 21:44:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Amojin
Yes, it does. Welcome to 2LOT.

Sorry, the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Entropy. Chaos Theory.

Or, as we call it in Theology, Free Will.

It's that much trouble to you, really?
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2017-03-08 06:08:07 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Yes, it does. Welcome to 2LOT.

Sorry, the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Entropy. Chaos Theory.

Or, as we call it in Theology, Free Will.

It's that much trouble to you, really?


|What are you even going on about, what does chaos theory have to do with transports?

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
Exaido
Fire Over Light
Astral Alliance
#79 - 2017-03-08 06:25:46 UTC
An Ark runs for close to 8BN ISK on top of that you'll want some high-grade implants running to about another 3BN and filling your three lows with something decent. So you're at least at 11-12BN.

You need to plan routes and be careful getting back to hi-sec as you can't just jump in. So is transport too easy - no. People have to become good at transport and they make it look easy.

If it were so easy, CODE wouldn't have been able to lay waste to so many freighters.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#80 - 2017-03-08 06:51:41 UTC
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Amojin wrote:
Yes, it does. Welcome to 2LOT.

Sorry, the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Entropy. Chaos Theory.

Or, as we call it in Theology, Free Will.

It's that much trouble to you, really?


|What are you even going on about, what does chaos theory have to do with transports?


Man are you going to regret that.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online