Player Features and Ideas Discussion

what game have you been playing?


cruisers are probably the most diverse ship class full of E-war logi DPS utility ect

you have


HICS
HACS split into high dps and tank/dps
Logi split into solo and fleet
Recon split into combat and force

the only area there is really any overlap is T1 cruisers and that is because there is supposed to be. T1 is meant to do a job but be general enough to spill over. even Navy ships are not often a direct upgrade generally with subtle differences that push them further into some role but sometimes out right change the role of the ship. Navy logi are a good example of this.

the reasons some ships bubble to the top of the meta is not because they are all the same across the classes but because the classes are the same across races. This means that there are ~4 identical but flavored ships for each job many times the flavoring is enough to keep them separate. Like with Logi and recon. Other times the flavoring does not differentiate the role enough and a clear better or worse ship will emerge. Most common place for this is DPS the reason why is simple there are not many ways to uniquely do it so each one will step on the others toes only place in eve i have seen ccp manage this is in BLOPS but the nature of battleships makes it much easier to do than with cruisers who by nature are more flexible.


to be honest considering the vast number of cruisers i would say CCP has done a pretty damn good job I can't think of many I fly more or less based on the hull. The biggest issue by far with cruisers is the current state of medium weapons. the only ones that seem to be in a good place are hybrids. Auto cannons are a joke HAMs and HMs seem to be afraid to actually hurt anyone. RLML are out of control on anything with a range bonus. lasers have similar application issues with heavies but are a bit better

What two T1 cruisers are you thinking do the same thing? Cause I'm kinda at a loss..

Def not keen on the 'short weapons only' and 'penalised tackle' concepts. Stifles creativity with those ships by saying you will/wont fit these mods. Also wonder if it can even be done. Artillery and auto-cannons are both projectile weapons. They have different ranges but i don't think the game recognises 'long range' or 'short range' weapons, just optimal and fall-off.

I'd maybe make hacs 'heavier' but i think things outside of t3's are mostly fine.

I like the result of the tiericide project just fine as it turned out. Maybe some cruisers can use a little closer look but that's about it.

The special snowflake case ships turned out more or less okay and with the t2 logi someone inversed the difference between shield and armor tanking.

And while the cruiser class is fine-ish, bigger ships suffer a lot from increased firepower of the small ones.

To this day since the day a Raven hurt someones feelings in nullsec in the Band of Developers the Caldari suffer the consequences.

If someone would rename the Caldari minmatar and vice versa, the lore would be accurate.

I personally think the special snowflake ships are a blast. For example, command destroyers are so specialized that try as you may, you just can't make them good combat ships. However, they're a blast to fly because you have a unique place and purpose in a fleet. If someone wants to fly a high-end, well-rounded ship, pirate faction (and to a lesser extent, navy faction) exists to fill that niche.

I agree with the statement about larger ships suffering from increased firepower from small ships, which is why I didn't adjust damage amount at all for this. To me, battleships in particular feel unimpressive. I think that in general they should track worse but hit harder. However, that rabbit hole is probably better left for another thread.

Brawling vs sniping/kiting has changed around several times since Eve started.

The general problem is that anything that makes brawling "viable" probably also makes it better.

Like your general idea here: "Giving the brawler a way to consistently close the gap"

The problem with this, fundamentally, is that if I can consistently and easily get within brawling range then why would anyone ever bring a sniping setup? They deal significantly less damage and have worse tracking, so they need to be able to get their licks in before the enemy can close range or they just straight up lose.

Of course you could make it not automatically easy to close range, but at that point you're putting the lynch pin of the entire operation on a single move, and if that fails you're a bit screwed, which means you have to hit a knife's edge balance point to make both kiting and brawling viable and that's basically impossible.

In fact if you look at the Command Destroyers they're basically entirely range control. The reason they haven't lead to a brawling renaissance is because it's hard to actually land on top of someone, and the snipers can use them to keep range just as easily as the brawlers can use them to drop on top of the snipers.

Missiles are very different to turrets. Take note that torp launchers are a different item to other launchers in the market window, for skill books, for implants AND for bonuses.

A torp launcher is a torp launcher.
A cruise launcher is a cruise launcher.

Artillery and auto cannons are both large projectile turrets. Though their separations in the market may allow it to work i suppose.

They could be if it weren't for some Ferengi monkeys messing up moon-poo prices because someone didn't love them as a child.

And command destroyers are awesome, my baby-deliver- errm Stork is an amazing rocket boat with excellent speed, nothing wrong with that.

The balance will be in the fact that the kiter can do damage to the brawler all the way in, while the brawler has to wait until they're on top of the kiter. In addition, the kiter can warp off if they like. The balancing act will be in how quickly can the brawler close the gap. If it's too fast, kiters will be doomed, if it's too slow (as I think it is right now), brawlers are left hugging gates and stations and avoid giving chase to a ship they will never catch.

Making a ship that can only use short-range weapons faster than a ship that can use long-range weapons would make brawlers faster while not making snipers faster.



It's not magic at all. You just need to speed up brawlers so you can generally consistently catch up with kiters in a moderately timely manner. If anything gets out of whack, you just tweak a ship's base speed by 5-10 m/s and clean it up. In addition, even if brawlers get really good at chasing down kiters, you can still spread out your gang so it takes a long time for them to go from one ship to the next.

This is not how anything in Eve works, nor should it. There is not a single ship in the game that is restricted on the range and type of weapons it can use.



The thing you seem to be missing here is that your "you just need to" is A. a really really tiny target to hit without making brawling straight up better and B. might not actually solve the problem you want it to solve.

Never mind that if your above comment is any indication the way you would do this is to hard restrict what weapons a ship can fit based on its speed.

This is not, at all, a simple problem. Any general speed buff to brawling that lets you close relatively equally at one fleet size will let you stomp all over a brawling fleet at another, but if there's a size mismatch you're still screwed. Treating this like a simple problem with a simple solution just displays ignorance of how complicated the meta actually is and all the myriad factors that end up distilled down to "nah, lets do a kiting nano fleet, brawling fleets suck" when you ask the FC if you can bring a brawling ship today.

Also spreading out a kiting gang is a terrible plan because it makes it hard to coordinate and risks putting part of your fleet, and thus your DPS, out of range of some targets.