EVE General Discussion

Scipio:

Your character does nothing without you.
Its a lifeless puppet in virtual space.

You are what decides the actions of your puppet.

How you choose to dis/associate with that puppet, is up to you.
But the puppet only does what you choose to do with it.

It is directly an extension of your chosen actions, and yourself.
You are directly and integrally complicit in any action your puppet takes.
You made that choice and action, not the puppet.

The puppet does not act on its own, or of its own volition/will.

Its always you.

@Scupio Artelius

You're narrowing the definition of "victim" to one that suits you, rather than the one that's appropriate for this particular context.

Let's look at this from another angle.

OP made a suggestion. It makes sense to ask:

1. Is it useful?
2. Is it practical?
3. Is it affordable?

Someone went after point 1 by claiming existing Corps serve the same purpose, implying the OP's suggestion adds nothing.

Of course this is nonsense, but it had to be dealt with. Along the way we got the claim "Corps would be just as good as OOP's suggestion if new players reacted differently to wardecs".
Still nonsense, but of course the exchange continued anyway.

This pointless argument over the meaning of "victim" actually nets out to the following meaningless (in context) claim:
"It's not possible to be a "victim" of a frivilous wardec, therefore OP's suggestion is not useful".
This is clearly irrelevant (at best).

"Dictionary Attacks", even when they're well done, almost never actually contribute to the discussion. They're just another "dirty trick", useful only for shutting down a constructive topic.

Bahahaha, this is just more pissing in the wind.
The constructive discussions on this topic have been going on for over a year now on slack and discourse,
Largely with the csm and community leaders who actually engage in the topic.

I'll happily have the discussion but not of it's predicted on the notion that one can be victimised
by something entirely voluntary and trivially removed from concern.
Edit: derp, thought this was the other thread, sorry Aaron.

I think that is clear. And the same can be said for the pawn on the chess board, the thimble on the Monopoly board, or the hero (or villain) that exists on a piece of paper as part of a classic Dungeons and Dragons game.

The problem is, as Scipio correctly identifies, is that some people choose to make that puppet themselves. They project their ego and their persona into a video game. This is a major contributor to the 'great divide' of these forums where some players call others sociopaths and monsters for making their puppet do bad things to the puppet they control and take personal offense to, or ascribe motivations or psychological defects as they would as if someone treated them that way in real life. Which is I guess speaks to how compelling Eve is as a game as most people would probably label someone who literally thinks of themselves as a pawn, or a Monopoly piece, or even a pen-and-paper RPG character as insane.

Well, at least from my perspective, these people shouldn't be playing Eve. New Eden is a dystopian, war-plagued universe purposely constructed so we want to fight with each other. It is a PvP sandbox. If you cannot separate yourself and your actions in such a virtual playground from real life, you are setting yourself up for anguish and disappointment when someone does get around to deciding your pixel character has something they want, or just wants to push your virtual avatar around for something to do. It's great that so many players are passionate about playing and make meaningful real-life connections over their shared love of the game, but everyone has to remember they are just a puppet-master sitting behind a keyboard, moving an imaginary character around an imaginary universe and jockeying for changing numbers in a database in a data center somewhere, an activity that has no impact on, or any reflection of, real life.

Eve Online requires some maturity to play, but can be great fun, if you have the right perspective and appropriate expectations of the type of game play that goes on. I applaud the OP for trying to create something in such chaotic virtual world and to make meaningful connections between the real people who are behind the avatars.

Let see ...

... "nothing anyone does in EVE matters, no matter how good or bad it it. If you care about in-game events you're unsuited to play he game at all".

So either al the old-timers are actually zombies or bots? That would explain the problems with logic, but I don't think it explains the pleasure fun-vampires take in "collecting tears" - interfering on other players' enjoyment of the game.

And back on topic - if none of this matters at all, why are some people so eager to discourage OP from providing his suggested service? The only rationale I can see with the nay-saying side of this thread is that they believe the game isn't as dark, vicious, and unforgiving as we've now learned it really is, so the service he's proposing isn't necessary.

I wonder if it's the same people ...

I both agree and disagree. Given that we both agree that we're all escaping reality, briefly, as a form of entertainment in this game, it makes sense that, rather than accepting eve as it is, we'd actually attempt to modify the persistent virtual world. That's the entire point, in most cases, of these games that are a sandbox. There are 'rules,' but they're just the walls, as it were, of the sandbox.

Within that space, however, everyone is free to do whatever they want, and suffer the consequences. If you want to change entire policies of in-game conglomerates, as a goal, then you are allowed to try. Try it by force, try it by infiltration and espionage, try it by bribery, try it in any way you can imagine, as long as you don't actually hack the servers to do it...

At least that's how I see persistent virtual worlds, and the point of their existence.

And I always thought that you just RP a wanabe-philosopher. Oh well...

Negative Ghost Rider. A game is usually enjoyable, but the sheer amounts of bitterness and angst you see from people who choose (of their own free will) to play EVE suggest that EVE is in fact real. So real that the UN will be here to shut the server down next week, just to lower the WWBHI (World wide butt hurt index).



Sarcasm aside, you and I both know that these kinds of discussions are really fights between people who know EVE is a piece of entertainment software and others who take it way to seriously for their own (and everyone else's) good.

There are and can be no 'victims' in EVE Online, and anyone who says they are a victim are simply seeking an ego salving excuse for their own poor choices and gameplay skills/knowledge. Anyone who spews the stupid term "victim blaming" in a game is simply saying "I need a way to not feel responsible for what I've done to myself".

I often wonder how some of these folks manage in real life if this game gives them such fits....

Well, you where wrong.

I havent RPed anything, ever.

Im legit me, and always have been.

How about you?
Can you say the same?

We take out our aggressions here so we don't have to in the real world, in many cases. Used that way, I'd say it's a healthy outlet. I'd rather express a lot of anger here than take it out on people at work, and suffer real life consequences.

Virtual consequences are so much easier to dismiss. I just log off or close the tab, and there we go, consequences gone!