These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Time Dilation = justification for CCP FAIL

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Atticus Fynch
#21 - 2012-01-21 20:28:06 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
Atticus Fynch wrote:
There is a fix but you all wouldnt be happy with it....

...enforced limit of fleet sizes/encounters/battles.

Your lag would then be fixed.



You shut your mouth.


OOOOOOOOOOOOH


just sayin Sad

[b]★★★Cargo Pilots Unite!!!★★★ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132[/b]
Avid Bumhumper
Beekeepers Anonymous
#22 - 2012-01-21 20:34:08 UTC
Given CCP's Track record of implementing "Major" fixes for fleet fights, I'm having a hard time figuring out why people are so surprised?
They took a year last time, and we went thru all types of fun scenarios like the Infamous "Jump in and Die" patch they implemented.
Just glad i'm not down there for this years "Testing phase"...Cool

My Tinfoil hat has been sugically implanted, so no,it is not for sale.....
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-01-21 21:00:52 UTC
Would you find a crashed node more fun, then? Or how about one side having a clear advantage while the other side is unable to even load the grid?

People are always going to find something to complain about. Roll
Rasz Lin
#24 - 2012-01-21 22:14:38 UTC
Jack Tronic wrote:
Milli Sanchez wrote:

CCP stop thinking up awesome technical work arounds and fix the #$% game.


They can fix it but it would mean there would be a 800 players in local limit with traffic control being enabled to lock the gates.

There's only so much they can do in a given time to optimize the game even more, 1200 players is really alot for it to handle on one grid, all spamming actions, all doing something else, etc.



This is not true. For starters they could STOP USING PYTHON and switch to multithreaded code..
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#25 - 2012-01-21 22:19:37 UTC
Rasz Lin wrote:
Jack Tronic wrote:
Milli Sanchez wrote:

CCP stop thinking up awesome technical work arounds and fix the #$% game.


They can fix it but it would mean there would be a 800 players in local limit with traffic control being enabled to lock the gates.

There's only so much they can do in a given time to optimize the game even more, 1200 players is really alot for it to handle on one grid, all spamming actions, all doing something else, etc.



This is not true. For starters they could STOP USING PYTHON and switch to multithreaded code..


I would suggest if you don't know what you are talking about, don't talk.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#26 - 2012-01-21 22:20:10 UTC
Rasz Lin wrote:
Jack Tronic wrote:
Milli Sanchez wrote:

CCP stop thinking up awesome technical work arounds and fix the #$% game.


They can fix it but it would mean there would be a 800 players in local limit with traffic control being enabled to lock the gates.

There's only so much they can do in a given time to optimize the game even more, 1200 players is really alot for it to handle on one grid, all spamming actions, all doing something else, etc.



This is not true. For starters they could STOP USING PYTHON and switch to multithreaded code..

Not a programmer so forgive me if I sound stupid but...


Wouldn't they have to rewrite the entire code from scratch if they changed languages? Which would take years?
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#27 - 2012-01-21 22:39:33 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Rasz Lin wrote:
Jack Tronic wrote:
Milli Sanchez wrote:

CCP stop thinking up awesome technical work arounds and fix the #$% game.


They can fix it but it would mean there would be a 800 players in local limit with traffic control being enabled to lock the gates.

There's only so much they can do in a given time to optimize the game even more, 1200 players is really alot for it to handle on one grid, all spamming actions, all doing something else, etc.



This is not true. For starters they could STOP USING PYTHON and switch to multithreaded code..

Not a programmer so forgive me if I sound stupid but...


Wouldn't they have to rewrite the entire code from scratch if they changed languages? Which would take years?


I will provide some background.

The Carbon UI and its associate libraries, which are about 15% of the client code (and some 550 Mb of the download) took about one year to build, and they are about 2 million lines of code. Just hunting for the associated code took months as 45% of the new code clashed with old code that nobody knew it was there (Python is very flexible, but also can become very messy w/o proper documentation, and CCP policy about documentation is: "documentation is optional and you do it in your spare time".)

Short version, the EVE client is so complicated that there is no way to "translate" it. It should be done from scratch, would take years, and would mean EVE 2 i.e. starting fresh.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-01-21 23:07:37 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
From what I've seen it isn't much of a solution, it'd be more cost effective in the long run to give all EVE subscribers free fibre optic connections with the amount of subscription money frankly.

The problem isn't the connection to the servers ... it is the workload the servers are doing that is the bottleneck. CCP would need to invest in Deep Blue style machines to fix lag. They don't have that sort of money.
Defier Orilis
Defiance Eden Initiative
#29 - 2012-01-21 23:11:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Defier Orilis
So what is it? CCP Servers or user computers creating this lag issue? Dang!

Sounds like this CCP Time Dilation is a great solution for all of us. Dang!
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#30 - 2012-01-21 23:19:08 UTC
Milli Sanchez wrote:
Currently fighting in 92D. 1260 in local and dilation is so bad I cant lock anything. Shocked

Dilation is FAIL. This is NOT fun and simply not worth participating in big fleet PvP anymore.

CCP stop thinking up awesome technical work arounds and fix the #$% game.


Your whining is fail.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.
Famble
Three's a Crowd
#31 - 2012-01-21 23:26:02 UTC
My bowels are time dilated. Too much cheese I think.

If anyone ever looks at you and says,_ "Hold my beer, watch this,"_  you're probably going to want to pay attention.
Sarina Rhoda
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-01-21 23:28:39 UTC
Correct me if i'm wrong but time dilation wasn't created to fix lag..... Time dilation was introduced to make fights fairer under extreme lag conditions. Previously the server would just randomly accept some peoples commands while completely ignoring other peoples. This meant some people were able to fight as if there was nothing wrong whilst other people were completely locked out.

Time dilation was simply a method of slowing everything down so that the server has a fair chance and processing everyone's commands.
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-01-21 23:32:17 UTC
Sarina Rhoda wrote:
Correct me if i'm wrong but time dilation wasn't created to fix lag..... Time dilation was introduced to make fights fairer under extreme lag conditions. Previously the server would just randomly accept some peoples commands while completely ignoring other peoples. This meant some people were able to fight as if there was nothing wrong whilst other people were completely locked out.

Time dilation was simply a method of slowing everything down so that the server has a fair chance and processing everyone's commands.


That's how I understood it.

Fixin' lag involves CCP's ongoing process of code iteration (updated client + server), refactoring, and the new technologies they're planning on adding in this year!
Atticus Fynch
#34 - 2012-01-22 12:16:15 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
and CCP policy about documentation is: "documentation is optional and you do it in your spare time".)



Ooh...bad move. That's like performing surgery and telling the surgeon, stitching is optional...just do it when you get around to it.

Im an proponent of over-documenting code. Makes life much easier.

[b]★★★Cargo Pilots Unite!!!★★★ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132[/b]
Marcus Harikari
#35 - 2012-01-22 12:36:30 UTC
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
and CCP policy about documentation is: "documentation is optional and you do it in your spare time".)



Ooh...bad move. That's like performing surgery and telling the surgeon, stitching is optional...just do it when you get around to it.

Im an proponent of over-documenting code. Makes life much easier.

i don't even write code :-D even EASIER
Sandrestal
Pakistani Taxi Drivers
#36 - 2012-01-22 12:46:47 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Milli Sanchez wrote:
Currently fighting in 92D. 1260 in local and dilation is so bad I cant lock anything. Shocked

Dilation is FAIL. This is NOT fun and simply not worth participating in big fleet PvP anymore.
So you find black loading screens very amusing I take it?
Quote:
CCP stop thinking up awesome technical work arounds and fix the #$% game.
Funny how two seemingly different things can be so unequivocally one and the same. The alternative is that you won't be allowed to be in the fight at all, would you prefer that?


Forgive me but a couple of years ago we were fighting in Delve with 1400 people in system and lag was O.K. I forget which "upgrade" caused the lag monster to return but since then we've had to look under our beds before engaging in large fleet jousting.
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#37 - 2012-01-22 12:57:13 UTC
Marcus Harikari wrote:
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
and CCP policy about documentation is: "documentation is optional and you do it in your spare time".)



Ooh...bad move. That's like performing surgery and telling the surgeon, stitching is optional...just do it when you get around to it.

Im an proponent of over-documenting code. Makes life much easier.

i don't even write code :-D even EASIER


LOL what a cute little troll. Kill it before it grows! Big smile
Zleon Leigh
#38 - 2012-01-22 13:04:00 UTC
TiDi is implemented because there does not exist a hardware solution that will handle the computation load and also the time of flight problem across the net.

The fix to this is simple - limit fleet battle size. But CCP is too fail to admit the truth.

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-01-22 13:05:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Grimpak
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Valei Khurelem wrote:
From what I've seen it isn't much of a solution, it'd be more cost effective in the long run to give all EVE subscribers free fibre optic connections with the amount of subscription money frankly.

The problem isn't the connection to the servers ... it is the workload the servers are doing that is the bottleneck. CCP would need to invest in Deep Blue style machines to fix lag. They don't have that sort of money.




exactly.

as I said a few months ago when they said they were implementing this: It is not a permanent solution, just a stopgap, but a very large and "semi-permanent-temporary" stopgap, while they try to make the code work better.

there was the Infiniband project a few years back, where they were trying to make processing threads mobile across clusters using Infiniband-linked servers (google for "Infiniband"), but it was put on hold due to the extremely massive technical undertake that it was (and probably still is, moving entire processing threads seamlessly across several nodes is a daunting task), and decided to implement a stopgap procedure that involved Time Dilatation so that they could get some more time.



also, no. Hard Limits don't work on EVE. there will always be a way to go around them/make them play to your advantage. TiDi was supposed to be the "fairier" way to make fleetbattles happen.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-01-22 13:07:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Valei Khurelem wrote:
From what I've seen it isn't much of a solution, it'd be more cost effective in the long run to give all EVE subscribers free fibre optic connections with the amount of subscription money frankly.

The problem isn't the connection to the servers ... it is the workload the servers are doing that is the bottleneck. CCP would need to invest in Deep Blue style machines to fix lag. They don't have that sort of money.



7000 systems @ one bladeper system 14 per blade center, $5000 per blade and and $20,000 for each chassis.....that is HS22 dual 4 core xenons 8GB ECC ram with 100Gig-E capability in HT chassis....and I I may be on the low side I'd have to go to work and pull invoices.

Oh and that doesn't count literally MILLIONS in enterprise switches to wire it all together.


.....and I don't feel like getting out the calculator.