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High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

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Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1021 - 2017-03-02 02:50:37 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
NightmareX wrote:


I know how fast that ship is. I fly a Machariel as a daily basis when i'm in PVP ops and so on.



Clearly you don't, there is no way a mach can get up to speed before a freighter can be webbed into warp aside from gross incompetence.


Yeah NO, freighter pilots should not be required to run a web alt in highsec to be able to not get ganked. CONTROL the rate of criminal behavior in Highsec by any one person is all that is needed.

Obligatory: Why?

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1022 - 2017-03-02 02:52:05 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:

Faction Police aren't intended to stop gankers from playing the game. They're there to prevent them from doing anything but flying around and ganking.

That's the entirety of their purpose and it's a stupid one. If gankers could reship and attempt to run some missions, for example, then other players would have opportunity to get some revenge for earlier transgressions, causing the ganker potentially substantial loss.

The solution to your issue with ganking isn't to buff the likes of FacPo, but to nerf or even remove them. Instead of trying to make mechanical fixes to a non-issue, create opportunities for gankers' victims to actually get some meaningful revenge.


No ganker is going to stop to go do some mission running in Highsec ... lol, you are a funny guy.

Source?

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1023 - 2017-03-02 02:53:00 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Doing any one of those things will massively reduce the odds of failure. Hardly working your ass off. Again, we seem to be talking about frieghters, whose death require somewhere in the region of twenty people working together, scouting, gathering intel and of course, warping in and pressing F1 for the kill.

You're attempting to claim that surviving ganks is the most difficult thing in EVE while perpetuating them is the easiest. Not so, they're pretty similar in the effort/difficulty versus reward ratio.

LOL, the fact that you don't know that this system should be there to determine your success rate of doing the actual ganking is the whole point. If you want to have it easy ganking others alot of times, then you should work much more for it. If you don't work for your criminal actions, then you shouldn't expect to get a free pass into high sec easily.

Obligatory: Why?

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#1024 - 2017-03-02 02:54:54 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
baltec1 wrote:
Could but they don't. There is a reason why almost all freighter ganks happen in just a handful of systems.

Oh, so it's actually more easy afterall to gank as they don't even have to go after the freighters for some jumps to have a better chance of getting them?

Thanks for confirming it's easy to complete a gank.

baltec1 wrote:
So rare it might as well not happen. Its akin to not being able to cloak because that one ship on gate is withing 2km

But the fact that this is also possible says something to. And specially as you say that they don't even have to follow freighters for some jumps to get them that way tells us all that it is in fact pretty easy to do the ganks.

Again, you barely have to do any works at all to catch a freighter and gank it. It's wrong when you takes into the considerations on the massive gains you get for doing that for little to nothing work and no risks what so ever.

baltec1 wrote:
I literally just told you how this isn't true.

You just said it without provinding evidences on that.

Hiasa Kite wrote:
Obligatory: Why?

Because....................

Oh also, post with your main and stop being a whimp hiding behind an alt.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1025 - 2017-03-02 02:55:24 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:


Hisec has an extremely low crime rate, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that on average gankers account for a couple of hundred players online out of a hisec population that numbers in the 10's of thousands at the same time. I don't know, but I don't think I'm far wrong.

That's why the current consequences are enough, they do a good enough job that the vast majority don't want to incur them.


Gankers destroy more isk in Highsec alone than all of Black Rise on a given day where there are no major cap battles down in lowsec. Highsec is supposed to be safer than lowsec, yet it is not. If you need your proof, resort to zkill.

Any statistician will tell you your data samples are completely different sizes.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1026 - 2017-03-02 02:56:37 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
report this guy for continually including random copy and paste text in his posts. Admins will eventually remove him.

Are you talking about me or yourself?

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1027 - 2017-03-02 02:59:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:


Hisec has an extremely low crime rate, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that on average gankers account for a couple of hundred players online out of a hisec population that numbers in the 10's of thousands at the same time. I don't know, but I don't think I'm far wrong.

That's why the current consequences are enough, they do a good enough job that the vast majority don't want to incur them.


Gankers destroy more isk in Highsec alone than all of Black Rise on a given day where there are no major cap battles down in lowsec.
Why is this? Might it be because people keep feeding them multi-billion isk loot pinata's?

Stuff destroyed or looted is not a crime rate by the way. That's normally expressed as per 100,000 general population, and there's a real world calculation for it: Reported crimes/total population x100,000.

For suicide ganking the crime rate would be the total number of ganks that Concord respond to (reported crimes, and they all get reported) in a time period, divided by the population of hisec (for arguments sake 60% of server population at any one time) x100,000.

Quote:
Highsec is supposed to be safer than lowsec, yet it is not.
It is, the chance of getting suicide ganked is tiny for most, virtually nil for others. Unless you do something daft you're probably more likely to hit by a car crossing the street.

Quote:
If you need your proof, resort to zkill.
At what data?
The amount of freighters killed? or the amount of isk destroyed and looted?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1028 - 2017-03-02 03:04:35 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
NightmareX wrote:

Oh, so it's actually more easy afterall to gank as they don't even have to go after the freighters for some jumps to have a better chance of getting them?

Thanks for confirming it's easy to complete a gank.


Seems you have no idea how system security works either.

NightmareX wrote:

But the fact that this is also possible says something to. And specially as you say that they don't even have to follow freighters for some jumps to get them that way tells us all that it is in fact pretty easy to do the ganks.

Again, you barely have to do any works at all to catch a freighter and gank it. It's wrong when you takes into the massive gains you get for doing that for little to nothing work and no risks what so ever.


Its also possible to slignshot a phoenix between a Fortizars towers and get it stuck there when you cyno in a gang of dreads. Its just not going to happen.

NightmareX wrote:

You just said it without provinding evidences on that.


Do I really need to walk you though basic MWD mechanics and the sizes of gates and the area people will spawn around them when they jump into a system?
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1029 - 2017-03-02 03:04:56 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Obligatory: Why?

Because.

It's been explained several times already. I'm not gonna spoonfeed you just because you are lazy reading what i have said.

Wrong. You have stated your opinion several times already. Here's the basic gist of the conversation so far:

YOU: Gankers should be punished more harshly
ME: Why have you come to that conclusion and why do you feel it would benefit the game?
YOU: (worded slightly differently) Gankers should be punished more harshly
ME: Yes, I got that, but why?
YOU: (worded slightly differently) Gankers should be punished more harshly
ME: Why?
YOU: (worded slightly differently) Gankers should be punished more harshly

So, are we going to move on with this conversation or are you going to endless repeat your opinion, hoping to sway the denizens of F&I with zero substance?

I'll clarify if that helps: A nerf to gankers, be it to force them to pay for sec status repairs or to force them to slow the rate at which thye suicide gank people will impact the overall rate that ganking occurs in HiSec. Some players will take the changes in stride and work harder for their ganks - just as you've proposed. However, there will be many other gankers that aren't willing to do the extra work for the same reward, reducing the overall ganking activity and making HiSec safer to some extent.

The question raised by myself and others is: How does reducing the amount of ganking improve EVE Online? How does it make it more enjoyable for its current players (and as just about every suggestion goes) how does it encourage new players to join?

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#1030 - 2017-03-02 03:07:32 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
NightmareX wrote:


I know how fast that ship is. I fly a Machariel as a daily basis when i'm in PVP ops and so on.



Clearly you don't, there is no way a mach can get up to speed before a freighter can be webbed into warp aside from gross incompetence.


Yeah NO, freighter pilots should not be required to run a web alt in highsec to be able to not get ganked. CONTROL the rate of criminal behavior in Highsec by any one person is all that is needed.


They arent.

The vast majority of freighters get through gank hot spots without a web escort. Some even get through whilst afk.

Webbing is just something you can do that will make you pretty much ungankable.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#1031 - 2017-03-02 03:08:24 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
baltec1 wrote:
NightmareX wrote:

Oh, so it's actually more easy afterall to gank as they don't even have to go after the freighters for some jumps to have a better chance of getting them?

Thanks for confirming it's easy to complete a gank.


Seems you have no idea how system security works either.

NightmareX wrote:

But the fact that this is also possible says something to. And specially as you say that they don't even have to follow freighters for some jumps to get them that way tells us all that it is in fact pretty easy to do the ganks.

Again, you barely have to do any works at all to catch a freighter and gank it. It's wrong when you takes into the massive gains you get for doing that for little to nothing work and no risks what so ever.


Its also possible to slignshot a phoenix between a Fortizars towers and get it stuck there when you cyno in a gang of dreads. Its just not going to happen.



If you follow a freighter from Perimeter / Jita to a 0.6 sec system 3 jumps away, you will have a much higher chance of completeing the gank as you are in a system with lower sec status that means lower Concord response time.

So yes, i do know how system security works bro.

And just because it's a low chance of it happening (with the Phoenix example over), shouldn't prevent the game from working better for everyone when it actually happens. Just because there might be a low chance of something happening, shouldn't prevent CCP from improving small bits of EVE here and there.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#1032 - 2017-03-02 03:10:30 UTC
More ganking means the game working better for everyone.

So buff it.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1033 - 2017-03-02 03:11:39 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
More ganking means the game working better for everyone.

So buff it.

This thread has a winner.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1034 - 2017-03-02 03:14:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
NightmareX wrote:
So yes, i do know how system security works
You keep saying this, that doesn't make it true.

You've yet to demonstrate that you understand the mechanics that you're suggesting CCP change, neither has your sidekick.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#1035 - 2017-03-02 03:14:08 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Daichi Yamato wrote:
More ganking means the game working better for everyone.

So buff it.

Not without more penatlies or consequences the more you do it.

No one is talking about making you do lesser ganks. We are only talking about making you work harder for your ganks the more you do it.

Hiasa Kite wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
More ganking means the game working better for everyone.

So buff it.

This thread has a winner.

If you read my reply to him here, then no, we have no winners here that are against balancing the current crime system in EVE.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1036 - 2017-03-02 03:14:12 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
NightmareX wrote:

No one is talking about making you do lesser ganks.


When you lock people out of highsec that means less ganking.

NightmareX wrote:

If you follow a freighter from Perimeter / Jita to a 0.6 sec system 3 jumps away, you will have a much higher chance of completeing the gank as you are in a system with lower sec status that means lower Concord response time.

So yes, i do know how system security works bro.


So you just ignored what I said then, good to know.

NightmareX wrote:

And just because it's a low chance of it happening (with the Phoenix example over), shouldn't prevent the game from working better for everyone when it actually happens. Just because there might be a low chance of something happening, shouldn't prevent CCP from improving small bits of EVE here and there.


Why is this change needed?
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#1037 - 2017-03-02 03:18:51 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
baltec1 wrote:
When you lock people out of highsec that means less ganking.

So you get locked out of high sec for working harder the more ganks you do?

Working harder for your crimes doesn't prevent you from entering any high sec systems at all. Or are you telling me that you are stupid and doesn't understand the difference from making things harder to lock something out?

Do you even know what you are talking about?

baltec1 wrote:
So you just ignored what I said then, good to know.

Says the smartass who are ignoring all of my points about the crime system on how it works and how it should be improved.

baltec1 wrote:
Why is this change needed?

Because no risk = no reward & alot of risk = alot of reward. That's how EVE is and should be. Ganking has no risk in it's current form for what you do for the amount of reward you get. Thus it needs to be changed / improved for the better.

Is there anything more you want to know?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1038 - 2017-03-02 06:20:49 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Says the smartass who are ignoring all of my points about the crime system on how it works and how it should be improved.

You're not stating why it should be improved. We'll start discussing flaws when a need for such a system is established.

Quote:
baltec1 wrote:
Why is this change needed?

Because no risk = no reward & alot of risk = alot of reward. That's how EVE is and should be. Ganking has no risk in it's current form for what you do for the amount of reward you get. Thus it needs to be changed / improved for the better.

"And i haven't been talking about making a gank more or lesser profitable."

You're complaining that ganking is too profitable for the risk involved. On one hand you claim you're not interested in profitability, then you're trying to tell people you're trying to limit the profitability.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#1039 - 2017-03-02 06:25:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
NightmareX wrote:
And just because it's a low chance of it happening (with the Phoenix example over), shouldn't prevent the game from working better for everyone when it actually happens. Just because there might be a low chance of something happening, shouldn't prevent CCP from improving small bits of EVE here and there.

Serious question here because trolling BS is a waste of time.

If it "shouldn't prevent the game from working better for everyone", surely everyone also includes gankers?

If the risk is already small (which it is), then why should it be made even smaller and therefore harder for gankers? That doesn't seem like improving things for everyone. It seems more like improving things for only 1 group, which isn't a balanced change.
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
Seventh Sanctum.
#1040 - 2017-03-02 08:16:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


  • Security standing hit for every target they kill

  • No insurance payout for their ship loss

  • 15 minute timer where if they undock or enter a new ship in space CONCORD will attack and destroy their ship

  • Cost to improve your security status from -10 using tags currently stands at 308,373,365.59 isk



    • U made my day - especially the last what i bolded;
    So much "punishment" for ganking few freighters per day in 1-2 system (of milions gates hahaha) over and over - and u have to pay what... a penny?...

    How much u got ISK from ganking a freighters befor you hit a standing which doesn't let u park in a safespot with your ganking fleet? 10 Bilions?

    What is 300 mil in compare of your 10B;

    I can't get of feeling that Baltec1 is a massive troll out here;