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High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

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Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
Seventh Sanctum.
#921 - 2017-03-01 14:53:15 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:


No reason? We gave u already a LOT of reasons;


Which are?


It won't be easy for you so go figure it out by yourself - page by page :)


So you don't have one.


You should get it more like "there is many and you are too lazy to check it out by yourself"
So im not gonna make it a sweat for you;
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#922 - 2017-03-01 15:06:08 UTC
Naye Nathaniel wrote:


You should get it more like "there is many and you are too lazy to check it out by yourself"
So im not gonna make it a sweat for you;


So far all you have done is insult everyone and post nothing of substance.
Dark Lord Trump
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#923 - 2017-03-01 15:07:01 UTC
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
So if you make it harder, I can do less ganks, and since apparently ganking is an infinite faucet of ISK for gankers, I make less money. If CCP halved the amount of minerals in highsec ore, that would mean miners make less. That's a nerf. If freighters suddenly had their cargoholds halved, they'd make less money moving things since they can't fit as much. That's also a nerf. So why, pray tell, is allowing me less ganks not a nerf but a "balance?"

Making things harder isn't forcing you to do any less ganking. It just make you work a little harder for each crime you do. And do work for your action is something that everyone has to face.

Yeah, the gankers can just fit up a ship, undock and do the gank, and rince and repeat forever without any work at all as all of his gank ships are already fitted in the station.

So balancing this out is a good idea.

Remember, no risk = no reward. Alot of risk = slot of reward. That's EVE.

If I have to repair my sec status after every gank/every X ganks, that takes time away from ganking, and I only have so much time to play. Ergo, I am forced to gank less. It's also balanced. The gankers ARE the risk, and they wouldn't get nearly as much reward if people didn't autopilot 10bil freighters through known gank systems.


Really?
So you just admited that you are fine that you can do a lot of ganks "because you are short for a gameplay time" and don't give a **** about players which u ganged and have to work out their 10 b cargo and ship by itself ? BECAUSE if the thing would be ballanced then you will loose your fun?

WTF is wrong with you people?!

They made a choice. They have to deal with the consequences. If they can't afford a 10b loss they shouldn't fly a 10b freighter.
Also, please point out where I "mess with dogs."

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#924 - 2017-03-01 15:17:02 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
baltec1 wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:


WTF really? and where have you been from the last xxx of pages?


Trying to get an answer to my question.

I has been answered several times that it's not a nerf, but a balance.

You haven't even explained why it's is a nerf other than saying 'boohoo, it will be more work to gank the more you do it'.

Not only that, criminals who are in high sec breaking the rules are SUPPOSED to work way harder to break the rules over what the law abiding players in high sec do.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#925 - 2017-03-01 16:17:09 UTC
NightmareX wrote:

I has been answered several times that it's not a nerf, but a balance.


No matter how many times you say this it will never be true. Asking to lock people out of highsec is a big nerf.
NightmareX wrote:

You haven't even explained why it's is a nerf other than saying 'boohoo, it will be more work to gank the more you do it'.


3 times I highlighhted the part that makes it a nerf. Again, having the faction navies scram and web you the instant you enter highsec is a nerf.
NightmareX wrote:

Not only that, criminals who are in high sec breaking the rules are SUPPOSED to work way harder to break the rules over what the law abiding players in high sec do.


They already do.

We are all still waiting on you telling us why this massive nerf is required.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#926 - 2017-03-01 21:04:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Scipio Artelius wrote:

No one is forced to do anything.

It's their choice; and choices have consequences.

If they want to take the extra risk and get ganked, like you ganked that badger in the past, then more fool them.

Totally voluntary to expose themselves to that much risk.

Please read previous posts. You are just bringing things up that have already been brought up by others. If you have something that hasn't already been talked about, then by all means.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#927 - 2017-03-01 21:05:11 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
NightmareX wrote:

I has been answered several times that it's not a nerf, but a balance.


No matter how many times you say this it will never be true. Asking to lock people out of highsec is a big nerf.
NightmareX wrote:

You haven't even explained why it's is a nerf other than saying 'boohoo, it will be more work to gank the more you do it'.


3 times I highlighhted the part that makes it a nerf. Again, having the faction navies scram and web you the instant you enter highsec is a nerf.
NightmareX wrote:

Not only that, criminals who are in high sec breaking the rules are SUPPOSED to work way harder to break the rules over what the law abiding players in high sec do.


They already do.

We are all still waiting on you telling us why this massive nerf is required.

I'm going to start flagging your posts if you don't stop junking the thread.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#928 - 2017-03-01 21:09:20 UTC
Please review the forum rules on properly quoting others. You need to remove unnecessary quote tags that make posts unnecessarily long. Forum rules prohibit it because it makes things harder to read and follow. Quote one point and leave all the other unnecessary content out.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#929 - 2017-03-01 21:13:31 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
baltec1 wrote:
No matter how many times you say this it will never be true. Asking to lock people out of highsec is a big nerf.

Again, making criminals work harder for the crimes they do is not locking anyone out of high sec.

Do you even know the difference from making things harder to completely make thing impossible, bro?

Clearly not.

baltec1 wrote:
3 times I highlighhted the part that makes it a nerf. Again, having the faction navies scram and web you the instant you enter highsec is a nerf.

No you haven't. All you have been doing is crying that my idea is going to lock criminals out of high sec, which it doesn't. Again, making things harder to do is not locking anyone out. But if you expect to get everything to be delivered to you on the basket so you don't have to lift a finger to make any effort what so ever to do your crimes, then sure, you might not like the idea of working for your crimes.

baltec1 wrote:
They already do.

We are all still waiting on you telling us why this massive nerf is required.

No they don't. If you think doing a gank / crime, complete the objective by suiciding a freighter, warp back to station and then jump into a new ship and then just wait 14-15 minutes is hard work, then let me ask, how lazy are you?

That's barely making any effort at all for the massive profits you make doing that.

Do you hate changes to the game that might make the game better?

And lastly. I'm not gonna tell you why it's a nerf, because it's not a nerf, but a balance.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#930 - 2017-03-01 21:16:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Scipio Artelius wrote:

You know people can already nearly eliminate their gameplay by not carrying 10B in cargo and simply using a Webber.

No changes are needed except the behaviour of people.


THE OP is not about how "targets" play, it's addressing the mechanics gankers are able to completely ignore.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#931 - 2017-03-01 21:16:40 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Please review the forum rules on properly quoting others. You need to remove unnecessary quote tags that make posts unnecessarily long. Forum rules prohibit it because it makes things harder to read and follow. Quote one point and leave all the other unnecessary content out.


Baltec is not breaking any rules. Using the flagging-system to weed out people whose opinion you don't like is not going to work. You made your thread, now you must face to fact that not everyone feels the same way as you and they are going to be vocal about that fact.

We are still waiting for the proof of this magical explosion of ganking...

Wormholer for life.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#932 - 2017-03-01 21:20:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Wander Prian wrote:


Baltec is not breaking any rules. Using the flagging-system to weed out people whose opinion you don't like is not going to work. You made your thread, now you must face to fact that not everyone feels the same way as you and they are going to be vocal about that fact.

We are still waiting for the proof of this magical explosion of ganking...


Read the forum posts, he has been recycling the same point for pages now. It's making others repeats things over and over and does not constructively contribute to the OP. It's becoming a troll.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#933 - 2017-03-01 21:26:47 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
Really?
So you just admited that you are fine that you can do a lot of ganks "because you are short for a gameplay time" and don't give a **** about players which u ganged and have to work out their 10 b cargo and ship by itself ? BECAUSE if the thing would be ballanced then you will loose your fun?

WTF is wrong with you people?!

You know people can already nearly eliminate their gameplay by not carrying 10B in cargo and simply using a Webber.

No changes are needed except the behaviour of people.

So what you are saying is that the freighters can't be used for their intended usage by carrying alot of things without going into a death trap?

Why have freighters in the first place if they can't be used for more than what a normal hauler is, just because of alot of value for carrying alot of stuffs is being transported by freighters?

Why make large trailers that carries a lot of products that might kill alot of products if it crashes when we have cars that might not destroy many products as you can only put few products back in the trunk of the car and do 10 runs instead of 1 with the trailer instead?

That's basicly what you are saying that we rather should move tons of products with smaller cars over bigger trailers who can transport ALOT of products worth alot of money JUST because the products might get destroyed on it's route.

Do you know how stupid that is?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#934 - 2017-03-01 21:30:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

We know player numbers have been low, nobody is saying otherwise.

Drop the PCU numbers over the graph, show a correlation between the number of players online and the number of people being killed by Concord, support your claim rather than just evading the question.

At the moment, you've got nothing.

The graph was presented to me and I was asked for a reason the graph does what it do. I have already provided the reasons why it's not valid proof of ganking numbers. If you would like to prove that it is, then by all means. To me though, it has no meaning when trying to invalidate the OP.
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#935 - 2017-03-01 21:34:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Hiasa Kite
NightmareX wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
Really?
So you just admited that you are fine that you can do a lot of ganks "because you are short for a gameplay time" and don't give a **** about players which u ganged and have to work out their 10 b cargo and ship by itself ? BECAUSE if the thing would be ballanced then you will loose your fun?

WTF is wrong with you people?!

You know people can already nearly eliminate their gameplay by not carrying 10B in cargo and simply using a Webber.

No changes are needed except the behaviour of people.

So what you are saying is that the freighters can't be used for their intended usage by carrying alot of things?

No, he's saying freighters aren't expected to carry high value cargoes, they excel in the transport of vast quantities of low value goods. If you want to carry very large, expensive items such as certain deployables, then escorts become a necessity.

Quote:
Why have freighters in the first place if they can't be used for more than what a normal hauler is, just because of alot of value for carrying alot of stuffs is being transported by freighters?

Because freighters, much like any other ship in the game excel at a given task but aren't the ultimate solution to all logistical problems.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#936 - 2017-03-01 21:46:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Hiasa Kite wrote:

No, he's saying freighters aren't expected to carry high value cargoes, they excel in the transport of vast quantities of low value goods. If you want to carry very large, expensive items such as certain deployables, then escorts become a necessity.

Quote:
Why have freighters in the first place if they can't be used for more than what a normal hauler is, just because of alot of value for carrying alot of stuffs is being transported by freighters?

Because freighters, much like any other ship in the game excel at a given task but aren't the ultimate solution to all logistical problems.


This is a known fact, but how does it relate to the OP suggestions that gankers need to be accountable for their actions as criminals instead of people being able to treat ganking as an infinite isk grab without hardly any resistance at all.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#937 - 2017-03-01 22:19:31 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Hiasa Kite wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
Really?
So you just admited that you are fine that you can do a lot of ganks "because you are short for a gameplay time" and don't give a **** about players which u ganged and have to work out their 10 b cargo and ship by itself ? BECAUSE if the thing would be ballanced then you will loose your fun?

WTF is wrong with you people?!

You know people can already nearly eliminate their gameplay by not carrying 10B in cargo and simply using a Webber.

No changes are needed except the behaviour of people.

So what you are saying is that the freighters can't be used for their intended usage by carrying alot of things?

No, he's saying freighters aren't expected to carry high value cargoes, they excel in the transport of vast quantities of low value goods. If you want to carry very large, expensive items such as certain deployables, then escorts become a necessity.

Quote:
Why have freighters in the first place if they can't be used for more than what a normal hauler is, just because of alot of value for carrying alot of stuffs is being transported by freighters?

Because freighters, much like any other ship in the game excel at a given task but aren't the ultimate solution to all logistical problems.

Freighters should be able to carry as much value as they possible can and still have high chances of getting ganked. What you don't seems to understand is that the gankers shouldn't be able to easily continue the same ganking over and over without any more consequences.

You will still be able to gank many haulers, freighters or whatever, but not without harsher penalies the more you gank / do ciminal activities in high sec.

Do you understand it now?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#938 - 2017-03-01 22:39:01 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Freighters should be able to carry as much value as they possible can and still have high chances of getting ganked. What you don't seems to understand is that the gankers shouldn't be able to easily continue the same ganking over and over without any more consequences.

You will still be able to gank many haulers, freighters or whatever, but not without harsher penalies the more you gank / do ciminal activities in high sec.

Do you understand it now?

Yes.

Question: Why?

Why do we need harsher punishments? The deterrents to ganking already puts people off doing it without a reason, so the system we have already enjoys some degree of success.

Why should it be changed to make the profession even less attractive? Why should incompetent/lazy/greedy pilots have an even easier time in this game at the expense of pirates and more competent freighter pilots?

This is a very important question that despite having lurked and posted in many, many "one more nerf" threads, I've never seen answered.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#939 - 2017-03-01 22:44:20 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:

No, he's saying freighters aren't expected to carry high value cargoes, they excel in the transport of vast quantities of low value goods. If you want to carry very large, expensive items such as certain deployables, then escorts become a necessity.

Quote:
Why have freighters in the first place if they can't be used for more than what a normal hauler is, just because of alot of value for carrying alot of stuffs is being transported by freighters?

Because freighters, much like any other ship in the game excel at a given task but aren't the ultimate solution to all logistical problems.


This is a known fact, but how does it relate to the OP suggestions that gankers need to be accountable for their actions as criminals instead of people being able to treat ganking as an infinite isk grab without hardly any resistance at all.

1) Criminals are already accountable for their actions in the form of ship loss, sec status loss, kill rights, permanently free-to-aggress by other capsuleers and chased by FacPo through HiSec space. These penalties have a massive impact on the way criminals are able to operate in HiSec.

2) Piracy is only as profitable as the greed of the victims it feeds upon.

Given the above, why does HiSec criminality require harsher penalties?

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#940 - 2017-03-01 22:53:29 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Hiasa Kite wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Freighters should be able to carry as much value as they possible can and still have high chances of getting ganked. What you don't seems to understand is that the gankers shouldn't be able to easily continue the same ganking over and over without any more consequences.

You will still be able to gank many haulers, freighters or whatever, but not without harsher penalies the more you gank / do ciminal activities in high sec.

Do you understand it now?

Yes.

Question: Why?

Why do we need harsher punishments? The deterrents to ganking already puts people off doing it without a reason, so the system we have already enjoys some degree of success.

Why should it be changed to make the profession even less attractive? Why should incompetent/lazy/greedy pilots have an even easier time in this game at the expense of pirates and more competent freighter pilots?

This is a very important question that despite having lurked and posted in many, many "one more nerf" threads, I've never seen answered.

Yes, you need harsher penalties, because the small penalties you get for the reward of ganking a freighter or any other expensive things you gank is insane. You barely have to make ANY effort at all to gain huge profits for doing ganking all day long. And it's way to easy to just doing it in the infinite loop without having anything to worry about except for having to wait a lil 15 minutes and refit the same ship up again which take like 10 seconds?

Such massive work right there, right?

Remember, no risk = no reward. Alot of risk = alot of reward. That's EVE.

And the profession as a criminal / ganker will still be the same after this. All you have to do is make more effort and do more work to be able to continue your ganks / criminal acts. So if you work for your crimes, then you will still be able to gank as much as you do now. It's simple.

And what is the point of high sec if it will be considered a guaranteed death trap (totally different from having a risk) to everyone the second someone with some value undocks from a station?

Yes, everyone will risk (not the same as 100% death trap) something everytime someone undocks. That's how it has been and how it should be forever. But having a guaranteed death trap everytime you undock just because a freighter is being used as it's intended usage of transporting tons of things that might be worth alot, is not the same as taking a risk when you undock.

So, all you guys are saying is that just because someone is using a freighter for it's intended usage, it should die?

Figure out the difference from taking a risk to see the instant death when you undock.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama