These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Greed is not good

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#41 - 2011-09-16 16:51:13 UTC
i would like to point out that the netflix price hike is due to the MPAA buttraping Netflix over licensing fees.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
SilentSkills
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2011-09-16 16:53:52 UTC
CCP Fallout wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:
Wait a minute...
So not every at CCP is a viking?

Not interested anymore, cancelling sub.

Blink


I was made an honorary Viking because my potty mouth can scare the bejesus out of most villages we **** and pillage.


i loled hard
Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
#43 - 2011-09-16 17:05:44 UTC
I do apologize for the tone of my first reply in the thread of course, but I think it was more of a knee-jerk reaction to the inflammatory nature of the post.

Basically to me it feels like the poster is saying, looks like capitalism is a failure, CCP is next!

Arguments like this are circular of course, you cannot have a capitalist market without... capitalism.

CCP pays their own pipers, and so do we, so long as they do not try to force us to pay more than our share (i.e. non-vanity items with no item exchange required), I see no problem.

...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Temulkar Blaine
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2011-09-16 19:03:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Temulkar Blaine
CCP Prism X wrote:
I wish I had NetFlix here in Iceland Straight

On the topic of greed: Greed cannot be good as the definition requires excess. Greed is a state of restlessness and it is not to be confused with ambition, necessity or drive. When Ivan Boesky coined the phrase in question he, hopefully, meant to inspire ambition and drive. At least I see no gain from muddling up the definition to include grey areas.
Necessity is amoral. Ambition and drive are good as if taken to extremes they are actually greed.

But yes.. I wish I had NetFlix! That is clearly the main point of this post!


Boesky didnt actually say the phrase, he said this, "I think greed is healthy. You can be greedy and still feel good about yourself". fair enough, but he was sent down for insider trading and fraud.

Also I would have thought that most people would have read greed is good, as coming from Gordon Gekko who was based loosely on Boesky.

Gekko said,

"Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures, the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge, has marked the upward surge of mankind and greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the U.S.A"

Remove Teldar Paper and insert CCP, do the same for the USA with Iceland. who does it sound like now?
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#45 - 2011-09-16 19:20:46 UTC
CCP Prism X wrote:
On the topic of greed: Greed cannot be good as the definition requires excess. Greed is a state of restlessness and it is not to be confused with ambition, necessity or drive.


I've never heard of anyone having ambitions to merely survive, or be average. People have ambitions for greater levels of wealth and power than they currently have, so to me ambition is synonymous with greed, but it's one of those words like decadent which our society seems to think is good for some reason.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Assaj Ventress
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2011-09-16 19:45:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Assaj Ventress
.
Fawcks
Doomheim
#47 - 2011-09-16 23:47:37 UTC
CCP Prism X wrote:
I wish I had NetFlix here in Iceland Straight

On the topic of greed: Greed cannot be good as the definition requires excess. Greed is a state of restlessness and it is not to be confused with ambition, necessity or drive. When Ivan Boesky coined the phrase in question he, hopefully, meant to inspire ambition and drive. At least I see no gain from muddling up the definition to include grey areas.
Necessity is amoral. Ambition and drive are good as if taken to extremes they are actually greed.

But yes.. I wish I had NetFlix! That is clearly the main point of this post!

What the hell did you just say?
Commander Spurty
#48 - 2011-09-17 00:14:53 UTC
I've heard more ******** debates from the bean pole security guards where I work

As for Netflix, thank god I don't have to pay for DVDs as I only stream now!

Back to the raping and pillaging please (and after seeing videos of SHC and goons sing, I'm only up for the pillaging, I don't think much of my chances )

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Vyl Vit
#49 - 2011-09-17 01:40:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyl Vit
CCP Prism X wrote:
I wish I had NetFlix here in Iceland Straight

On the topic of greed: Greed cannot be good as the definition requires excess. Greed is a state of restlessness and it is not to be confused with ambition, necessity or drive. When Ivan Boesky coined the phrase in question he, hopefully, meant to inspire ambition and drive. At least I see no gain from muddling up the definition to include grey areas.
Necessity is amoral. Ambition and drive are good as if taken to extremes they are actually greed.

But yes.. I wish I had NetFlix! That is clearly the main point of this post!


This has to be the most convoluted definition of greed I've ever read. It makes greed seem like just a fine tuning problem. Greed is wanting more than you need..."an excessive desire to possess wealth or goods with the intention [of keeping] it for one's self." ...rapacious desire and pursuit of wealth, status, and power.

Ambition? Drive? Where did these two come up in relation to "greed"? Gordon Gecko said it in "Wall Street." Greed is good. Michael Douglas was hounded by yuppies congratulating him on providing them with a purpose in life. He said it was a line he'd wished he'd never spoken. In fact, a "Wall Street" II was issued to dampen down that one statement which seemed to give license to an avaricious generation.

It's like Vince Lombardi saying, "Winning isn't everything. It's the only thing." Later, he wished he'd never said that as it, "sends the wrong message."

What's sort of suddenly suspicious about your point is...since you do work for CCP...and CCP's integrity has been called into question SO MUCH lately...well, it's like somebody's tipped his hand here. Thanks for the peek, Prism.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
#50 - 2011-09-17 02:49:25 UTC
Careful not to make the mistake of assuming there is some hidden message, verbatim, or lesson to be learned from everything you see or hear.

It is entirely possible he was just making light conversation.
It is also entirely possible he was inadvertently repeating an internal business acumen as well.

But it is neither here nor there, I know you guys like to think CCP is out to fleece your wallets, but to be honest, they could be doing a MUCH better job of it, if they were.

...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
J Kunjeh
#51 - 2011-09-17 06:46:26 UTC
Confirming that I love Netflix (though I only stream right now). Also confirming that the price increase wasn't that big a deal and most who unsubbed did it out of "principle", or something...not because the increase was actually that big a deal. Also, I must confirm that Netflix and NeX are so dissimilar that this thread was DOA.

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#52 - 2011-09-17 08:47:41 UTC
J Kunjeh wrote:
Confirming that I love Netflix (though I only stream right now). Also confirming that the price increase wasn't that big a deal and most who unsubbed did it out of "principle", or something...not because the increase was actually that big a deal. Also, I must confirm that Netflix and NeX are so dissimilar that this thread was DOA.


I dunno.... people unsubbing "out of principle" over something that's not really that big a deal? Sounds eerily familiar to me...

Seriously, HAS anyone ever come up with an explanation of exactly why MicroTransactions are supposedly so evil?

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Barricade Dark
#53 - 2011-09-17 08:52:09 UTC
CCP Prism X wrote:
I wish I had NetFlix here in Iceland Straight

On the topic of greed: Greed cannot be good as the definition requires excess. Greed is a state of restlessness and it is not to be confused with ambition, necessity or drive. When Ivan Boesky coined the phrase in question he, hopefully, meant to inspire ambition and drive. At least I see no gain from muddling up the definition to include grey areas.
Necessity is amoral. Ambition and drive are good as if taken to extremes they are actually greed.

But yes.. I wish I had NetFlix! That is clearly the main point of this post!


Actually Boesky was basically a thief and his famous quote didn't have any inside meaning all, what he said is meant to be exactly what the words mean, nothing more nothing less. He was a greedy bastard and he made his money cheating the stock market for which he eventually did time for and thanks to the way capitalism works paid his way out of trouble not unlike OJ Simpson. If nothing else Boesky is an example of what happens when you accept the idea that the sole purpose of business is to make money. Its a road that leads to only one place, corruption and anyone who doesn't believe that has already been corrupted, seeing things through the coggles of justification and rationalization.

You can be both wealthy and honest, but it takes a commitment and a humble deamoner, but above all, understanding that greed is in fact not good. Wealth is a responsibility, it is not the goal. When you become wealthy, the only defense you have against becoming corrupt is to share your wealth with the many people on who's back you climb to get their. No man becomes wealthy alone, no one becomes wealthy without someone else getting hurt. Its simply not possible.

Greed is good in particular is a terrible moto for CCP, as artistic endevours go, PC developers and designers are the Van Goghs of the 21 century. They are the artist and entertainers that create works that put a mirror to our culture very much like painters did a century ago. For a company to function on a greed is good moto, a coin phrased by a self admitied thief is a traggedy to say the least, emberassing at best.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#54 - 2011-09-17 08:56:03 UTC
Barricade Dark wrote:
Greed is good in particular is a terrible moto for CCP, as artistic endevours go, PC developers and designers are the Van Goghs of the 21 century. They are the artist and entertainers that create works that put a mirror to our culture very much like painters did a century ago. For a company to function on a greed is good moto, a coin phrased by a self admitied thief is a traggedy to say the least, emberassing at best.


Good thing they were using it ironically, then.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
El'Niaga
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2011-09-17 09:46:25 UTC
Greed can be a powerful ally if used properly.....Master Jinn

(Note telling the opposing side that you feel Greed is Good means you've lost its edge....)
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#56 - 2011-09-17 09:53:09 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
J Kunjeh wrote:
Confirming that I love Netflix (though I only stream right now). Also confirming that the price increase wasn't that big a deal and most who unsubbed did it out of "principle", or something...not because the increase was actually that big a deal. Also, I must confirm that Netflix and NeX are so dissimilar that this thread was DOA.


I dunno.... people unsubbing "out of principle" over something that's not really that big a deal? Sounds eerily familiar to me...

Seriously, HAS anyone ever come up with an explanation of exactly why MicroTransactions are supposedly so evil?


Microtransactions aren't evil...

...so long as you don't already have a game established around subscriptions where everyone expects equal opportunity/gameplay for said subscription money.

And even then you can have them, as long as they are superficial and do not impact gameplay.

If you've even skimmed the surface of the topic and it's discussion that would have been explained to you time and time again.

Do try to pay attention.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#57 - 2011-09-17 10:03:33 UTC
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Microtransactions aren't evil...

...so long as you don't already have a game established around subscriptions where everyone expects equal opportunity/gameplay for said subscription money.

And even then you can have them, as long as they are superficial and do not impact gameplay.


Which they are.

and yet people like the OP are still hollering "MTs are evil not in my EVE!". Hence my (rhetorical) question.

I guess the argument somebody's going to drag out is "It's a slippery slope". Which I always find amusing because "Slippery Slope" is in fact a formal logical fallacy.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Richard Aiel
The Merchants of War
#58 - 2011-09-19 18:07:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Aiel
Vyl Vit wrote:
CCP Prism X wrote:
I wish I had NetFlix here in Iceland Straight

On the topic of greed: Greed cannot be good as the definition requires excess. Greed is a state of restlessness and it is not to be confused with ambition, necessity or drive. When Ivan Boesky coined the phrase in question he, hopefully, meant to inspire ambition and drive. At least I see no gain from muddling up the definition to include grey areas.
Necessity is amoral. Ambition and drive are good as if taken to extremes they are actually greed.

But yes.. I wish I had NetFlix! That is clearly the main point of this post!


This has to be the most convoluted definition of greed I've ever read. It makes greed seem like just a fine tuning problem. Greed is wanting more than you need..."an excessive desire to possess wealth or goods with the intention [of keeping] it for one's self." ...rapacious desire and pursuit of wealth, status, and power.

Ambition? Drive? Where did these two come up in relation to "greed"? Gordon Gecko said it in "Wall Street." Greed is good. Michael Douglas was hounded by yuppies congratulating him on providing them with a purpose in life. He said it was a line he'd wished he'd never spoken. In fact, a "Wall Street" II was issued to dampen down that one statement which seemed to give license to an avaricious generation.

It's like Vince Lombardi saying, "Winning isn't everything. It's the only thing." Later, he wished he'd never said that as it, "sends the wrong message."

What's sort of suddenly suspicious about your point is...since you do work for CCP...and CCP's integrity has been called into question SO MUCH lately...well, it's like somebody's tipped his hand here. Thanks for the peek, Prism.


lol in an attempt to satirize me you show a bit more of the truth about yourself than you want. That mask is slipping an youre showing the true face beneath

Stitcher wrote:
J Kunjeh wrote:
Confirming that I love Netflix (though I only stream right now). Also confirming that the price increase wasn't that big a deal and most who unsubbed did it out of "principle", or something...not because the increase was actually that big a deal. Also, I must confirm that Netflix and NeX are so dissimilar that this thread was DOA.


I dunno.... people unsubbing "out of principle" over something that's not really that big a deal? Sounds eerily familiar to me...

Seriously, HAS anyone ever come up with an explanation of exactly why MicroTransactions are supposedly so evil?


Gold ammo sounds all right to you I take it?

an what really bugs me about netflix's new stuff (other than the price) is them getting (not thrir fault, I get it) dropped by Starz an all the rest. No more Top Gear after today :(

Stitcher wrote:
Barricade Dark: "Greed is good in particular is a terrible moto for CCP, as artistic endevours go, PC developers and designers are the Van Goghs of the 21 century. They are the artist and entertainers that create works that put a mirror to our culture very much like painters did a century ago. For a company to function on a greed is good moto, a coin phrased by a self admitied thief is a traggedy to say the least, emberassing at best."

Good thing they were using it ironically, then.

you sir win funniest post in thread
or most ignorant if you are serious

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/buddahcjcc/SOA-3-2.jpg
Richard Aiel
The Merchants of War
#59 - 2011-09-20 10:27:05 UTC
Quote:

Dear Customer,

I messed up. I owe you an explanation.

It is clear from the feedback over the past two months that many members felt we lacked respect and humility in the way we announced the separation of DVD and streaming and the price changes. That was certainly not our intent, and I offer my sincere apology. Let me explain what we are doing.

For the past five years, my greatest fear at Netflix has been that we wouldn't make the leap from success in DVDs to success in streaming. Most companies that are great at something – like AOL dialup or Borders bookstores – do not become great at new things people want (streaming for us). So we moved quickly into streaming, but I should have personally given you a full explanation of why we are splitting the services and thereby increasing prices. It wouldn’t have changed the price increase, but it would have been the right thing to do.

So here is what we are doing and why.

Many members love our DVD service, as I do, because nearly every movie ever made is published on DVD. DVD is a great option for those who want the huge and comprehensive selection of movies.

I also love our streaming service because it is integrated into my TV, and I can watch anytime I want. The benefits of our streaming service are really quite different from the benefits of DVD by mail. We need to focus on rapid improvement as streaming technology and the market evolves, without maintaining compatibility with our DVD by mail service.

So we realized that streaming and DVD by mail are really becoming two different businesses, with very different cost structures, that need to be marketed differently, and we need to let each grow and operate independently.

It’s hard to write this after over 10 years of mailing DVDs with pride, but we think it is necessary: In a few weeks, we will rename our DVD by mail service to “Qwikster”. We chose the name Qwikster because it refers to quick delivery. We will keep the name “Netflix” for streaming.

Qwikster will be the same website and DVD service that everyone is used to. It is just a new name, and DVD members will go to qwikster.com to access their DVD queues and choose movies. One improvement we will make at launch is to add a video games upgrade option, similar to our upgrade option for Blu-ray, for those who want to rent Wii, PS3 and Xbox 360 games. Members have been asking for video games for many years, but now that DVD by mail has its own team, we are finally getting it done. Other improvements will follow. A negative of the renaming and separation is that the Qwikster.com and Netflix.com websites will not be integrated.

There are no pricing changes (we’re done with that!). If you subscribe to both services you will have two entries on your credit card statement, one for Qwikster and one for Netflix. The total will be the same as your current charges. We will let you know in a few weeks when the Qwikster.com website is up and ready.

For me the Netflix red envelope has always been a source of joy. The new envelope is still that lovely red, but now it will have a Qwikster logo. I know that logo will grow on me over time, but still, it is hard. I imagine it will be similar for many of you.

I want to acknowledge and thank you for sticking with us, and to apologize again to those members, both current and former, who felt we treated them thoughtlessly.

Both the Qwikster and Netflix teams will work hard to regain your trust. We know it will not be overnight. Actions speak louder than words. But words help people to understand actions.

Respectfully yours,

-Reed Hastings, Co-Founder and CEO, Netflix


hey look.... ppl with a PR firm.
A company that doesnt further their **** up by pretending it didnt happen or creating a useless group of subscribers to come to their HQ and meet with them to be a "sounding board" etc etc etc.

Looks like Netflix learned some humility in the face of mass ragequits....

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/buddahcjcc/SOA-3-2.jpg
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#60 - 2011-09-20 10:30:03 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Microtransactions aren't evil...

...so long as you don't already have a game established around subscriptions where everyone expects equal opportunity/gameplay for said subscription money.

And even then you can have them, as long as they are superficial and do not impact gameplay.


Which they are.

and yet people like the OP are still hollering "MTs are evil not in my EVE!". Hence my (rhetorical) question.

I guess the argument somebody's going to drag out is "It's a slippery slope". Which I always find amusing because "Slippery Slope" is in fact a formal logical fallacy.




As indeed is the strawman.

Plenty of people have explained why they think MTs are a problem, with issues ranging from game balance to ethics. Just because you PGDWN'd past them doesn't mean they aren't there.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016