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Which stats would you choose?
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Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#1 - 2017-02-27 15:42:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
Battleship mounted t2 cruise missiles

a) Explosion base R 567m V 58m/sec

Radius 239 m
Velocity 127 m/sec

b) Explosion base R 567m V 58m/sec

Radius 274 m
Velocity 142 m/sec

In both cases target painter will be used but it stats are not included in here

Enemy angel NPC,s fast cruise and orbit speeds

additional example :

lets say i fitted typhoon badly with only 1 BCU II and i got to a point where most of a time when i shoot at NPC BC it get away with just a sliver of hit points left .....

....which of above would work better to get that BC over it HP threshold (1 salvo)without obvious increase in dmg mods?

Missile stats shooting BC

R 274m
V 127m/s

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#2 - 2017-02-27 16:43:08 UTC
a. Explosion radius always trumps explosion velocity.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2017-02-27 16:53:25 UTC
explosion radius as well!

different matter would be if you use webs :)
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#4 - 2017-02-27 17:20:47 UTC
Thanks wasn't sure my self,basic typhoon have explo vel bonus i'm guessing its not worth buffing but go for radius as well.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#5 - 2017-02-28 00:44:27 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
Thanks wasn't sure my self,basic typhoon have explo vel bonus i'm guessing its not worth buffing but go for radius as well.

The reason is that once you exceed a target's velocity with explosion velocity you don't recieve any additional bonus to damage application. The reverse is true for explosion radius where reducing it below the target's signature continues to offset any difference in explosion velocity and target velocity until you reach 100% damage application. This is why target painters are great. If you run a pair of precision-scripted missile guidance computers (recommended), I would augment this with a pair of T2 rigors and a T2 flare. You can even add a target painter if so desired.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
stoicfaux
#6 - 2017-02-28 02:43:07 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
Thanks wasn't sure my self,basic typhoon have explo vel bonus i'm guessing its not worth buffing but go for radius as well.

The reason is that once you exceed a target's velocity with explosion velocity you don't recieve any additional bonus to damage application.

Ewwww... mostly no. I know what you're saying but that's a horrific way of saying it.

For the OP:
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Missile_damage#Missile_damage_formula

The reason sig radius normally trumps explosion velocity is because sig radius affects both parts of the missile damage formula and because a point of explosion radius provides more value than a point of explosion velocity. FYI, radius and velocity numbers are multiplied together in the 2nd part of the damage formula so radius and velocity are effectively interchangeable.

1st part: S/E is target_radius over explosion_radius. If the target is smaller than the boom, then damage is reduced.

2nd part: S/E * Ve/Vt means we multiply the target the target_radius over explosion radius by the explosion velocity over target velocity which just means that we multiply the "is the target smaller than the boom?" and is the "explosion slower than the target?" together. Which is then subject to a damage reduction factor (DRF) to fiddle with the curve.

Here's why an explosion radius bonus is better than an equivalent explosion velocity bonus: a 15% explosion radius bonus gives you ( 1 / (1.0 - .15) ) = 1.176 in the 2nd formula. A 15% of explosion velocity bonus gives you just 1.15 / 1 = 1.15.

Either way damage is capped at 100%.


So explosion radius is better because:
a) it affects both parts of the missile damage formula,
b) An explosion radius bonus provides more value than an equivalent explosion velocity bonus. Ex: a 15% rigor rig is the same as a 17.6% flare rig for the purposes of the 2nd part of the damage formula.


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#7 - 2017-02-28 02:56:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
stoicfaux wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
Thanks wasn't sure my self,basic typhoon have explo vel bonus i'm guessing its not worth buffing but go for radius as well.

The reason is that once you exceed a target's velocity with explosion velocity you don't recieve any additional bonus to damage application.

Ewwww... mostly no. I know what you're saying but that's a horrific way of saying it.

For the OP:
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Missile_damage#Missile_damage_formula

The reason sig radius normally trumps explosion velocity is because sig radius affects both parts of the missile damage formula and because a point of explosion radius provides more value than a point of explosion velocity. FYI, radius and velocity numbers are multiplied together in the 2nd part of the damage formula so radius and velocity are effectively interchangeable.

1st part: S/E is target_radius over explosion_radius. If the target is smaller than the boom, then damage is reduced.

2nd part: S/E * Ve/Vt means we multiply the target the target_radius over explosion radius by the explosion velocity over target velocity which just means that we multiply the "is the target smaller than the boom?" and is the "explosion slower than the target?" together. Which is then subject to a damage reduction factor (DRF) to fiddle with the curve.

Here's why an explosion radius bonus is better than an equivalent explosion velocity bonus: a 15% explosion radius bonus gives you ( 1 / (1.0 - .15) ) = 1.176 in the 2nd formula. A 15% of explosion velocity bonus gives you just 1.15 / 1 = 1.15.

Either way damage is capped at 100%.


So explosion radius is better because:
a) it affects both parts of the missile damage formula,
b) An explosion radius bonus provides more value than an equivalent explosion velocity bonus. Ex: a 15% rigor rig is the same as a 17.6% flare rig for the purposes of the 2nd part of the damage formula.




Thank you 127m/sec is gained by t2 flare in rig slot since all angel ships move at least 2x that do you think flare rig is a complete waste and another rigor would work better ie two rigors vs one rigor one flare....or flare still provide some benefit?

Or what about 3 rigors vs 2 rigor one flare combo(vs angels)?

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#8 - 2017-02-28 04:00:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Yes, exactly what I said - just my version was heavily simplified (try writing that out on an iPad sometime)... When you buy or fly your ship, remember the three r's: rigor, rigor, rigor...

In answer to your question Mina, it depends what other modules you're running since modules and rigs are now stacking penalized. If you're running a pair of missile guidance computers you already get 2 bonuses for explosion radius and explosion velocity; 2 rigors means you've got 4 stacking penalties already which is why a 3rd rigor is not recommended. Using a T2 flare means you only have 3 stacking penalties for explosion velocity. Along with skills and implants, this is about as close as you're going to get (aside from target painters) to maximizing damage application for missiles.

Why use flare rigs? Well, they're half the configuration cost of rigors - which is why most of the time you'll see 2 rigors and a flare to max-out your rig configuration.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#9 - 2017-02-28 04:19:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
I added 2nd t2 rigor for total of three rigs one was t2 flare 6% implants dmg and application + t2 precision fitted missile comp in mids in hope it will push that BC hp to max out with single salvo....it didn't work still BC remain alive with 1% of structure left.

That is with extra t2 rigor and target painter applied or not it doesn't change the outcome it was a fun experiment and looks like i hit application cap and just need to start upping missile damage/alpha.

so extra t2 rigor and tp on of did not change outcome .

for now il remove all flare rigs from my missile ships.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#10 - 2017-02-28 04:28:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
I added 2nd t2 rigor for total of three rigs one was t2 flare 6% implants dmg and application + t2 precision fitted missile comp in mids in hope it will push that BC hp to max out with single salvo....it didn't work still BC remain alive with 1% of structure left.

That is with extra t2 rigor and target painter applied or not it doesn't change the outcome it was a fun experiment and looks like i hit application cap and just need to start upping missile damage/alpha.

so extra t2 rigor and tp on of did not change outcome .

for now il remove all flare rigs from my missile ships.

You can try switching to Faction cruise missiles.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#11 - 2017-02-28 04:36:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
Quote:
You can try switching to Faction cruise missiles.



Not for 1% i don't another BCU will put me well over blap point for that BC.

I will still have same amount of application mods and implants just not flares while 2nd rigor wont help to pop that BC it does help down the hull classes and elite variants but flare i cant find good reasoning to keep it on my setups the smaller it gets with hulls less it does and it doesn't do anything on BC already = no point

I will test thing further just to double check.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#12 - 2017-02-28 06:12:41 UTC
Just get a Vargur. Problem solved...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#13 - 2017-02-28 16:43:30 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Just get a Vargur. Problem solved...


You meant Barghest. I corrected that for you, you're welcome.

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