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Which L4 missions allow killing of ships at a slow pace?

Author
The Larold
This is an anagram of itself.
#1 - 2017-02-25 16:35:24 UTC
TL;DR: Which L4 missions offer the best opportunity to sit mostly idle safely for 30-90 seconds after each and every ship kill?

The long version:

I always get most L4 missions mixed up in my head, even when reviewing Eve Survival.

I am going to be doing some intense stats-gathering on L4 mission rats, loot, and salvage. (Specific stats I haven't ever been able to find on the web before.)

As such, I need to kill a ship, then either alt-tab out, or write stuff down for a little bit in between EVERY ship kill. I'll be in a Marauder / bastion for tank. I'll manager triggers carefully, and keep an eye out for gankers.

Which missions would be best for this kind of thing? Thanks!

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2 - 2017-02-25 17:45:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Define "safely"... Provided you can tank the entire DPS for any given room, it really doesn't matter how many triggers you hit or how much aggro you draw. Just make sure you have more tank than gank and make yout fit cap stable in case you get preoccupied. Without really knowing which stats or mission parameters you're after it would be hard to suggest a mission. I would start with eve-survival.org to get an idea of how mich DPS you need to potentially tank beforehand, though.

The answer to your quest is 1000 DPS. That's what you can realistically expect to average out amongst all missions once you've run a few thousand of them. It doesn't matter which ship, which weapon system, configuration or how much bling - 1000 applied DPS for L4s in high-sec is what it works out to.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

stoicfaux
#3 - 2017-02-25 18:50:05 UTC
It's been awhile but
* IIRC, cargo scanners can tell you what is in an NPC (everything is doubled). I think it works on NPC wrecks/cans as well.
* EVE's LogServer can track everything you do, but is a pain for various reasons (you need to trim down what is logged, then you still create a hug log that takes forever to load into excel,)
* No idea about the new EVE LogLite tool.
* You'll still need to salvage in order to get salvage metrics.
* Don't forget about screenshots especially in conjunction with ship/cargo scanners.
* Getting a dev drunk and getting the loot/salvage tables is also an option?

Side note: given that multiple NPCs of the same type tend to spawn together, you just need to kill/salvage everything of type X and then record your metrics in batches.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Zarek Kree
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#4 - 2017-02-25 19:50:29 UTC
I haven't run across an L4 mission yet that I can't tank in my passive Rattlesnake, even with full room aggro. As Arthur noted, the magic number seems to be about 1000 DPS omni-tank. I think a Marauder with Bastion should be more than sufficient to provide a high degree of safety in any L4 mission regardless of how many triggers you trip and regardless how long you sit idle soaking up the damage.
Buoytender Bob
Ronin Exploration Mission and Mining
#5 - 2017-02-25 20:44:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Buoytender Bob
"I haven't run across an L4 mission yet that I can't tank in my passive Rattlesnake, even with full room aggro. As Arthur noted, the magic number seems to be about 1000 DPS omni-tank. I think a Marauder with Bastion should be more than sufficient to provide a high degree of safety in any L4 mission regardless of how many triggers you trip and regardless how long you sit idle soaking up the damage."




This include the bonus room in Evolution? I find if you can survive this room, every other mission/room is doable. I think they may have nerfed the damage/AI for it in the last year, but still the toughest room I've found short of some of the Epic Arcs.

To buck the popular trend, I began to Rage Start instead of Rage Quit.

...and every time I get another piece of Carbon, I know exactly what CCP is getting this Christmas.

Zarek Kree
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#6 - 2017-02-25 21:22:06 UTC
Buoytender Bob wrote:
"I haven't run across an L4 mission yet that I can't tank in my passive Rattlesnake, even with full room aggro. As Arthur noted, the magic number seems to be about 1000 DPS omni-tank. I think a Marauder with Bastion should be more than sufficient to provide a high degree of safety in any L4 mission regardless of how many triggers you trip and regardless how long you sit idle soaking up the damage."




This include the bonus room in Evolution? I find if you can survive this room, every other mission/room is doable. I think they may have nerfed the damage/AI for it in the last year, but still the toughest room I've found short of some of the Epic Arcs.



I've actually never gotten this mission, but I'd love to try. This is the same Rattlesnake fit that I solo C3 sleeper sites with, so I THINK the tank would hold, but I'm not certain. It's actually a cap stable active tank, so I can push the tank up to about 1350 DPS omni or fit appropriate hardeners if needed. I can't find any mention of total incoming DPS for that mission, so it's hard to say without doing it.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2017-02-26 06:29:23 UTC
This sorta reminds me of when I was creating and or editing exploration site pages for Evelopedia and Epic Arc pages for Eve Survival. Creating and or editing the pages was started after I ran the content a couple of times before hand. That gave me a pretty good idea of how to approach it.

To start with I used the in-game notepad to record my info and had various 'guide' pages opened for reference with the in-game browser (In-game browser is gone now, play game in windowed mode and use out of game browser). Since I was sorta familiar with the content I would write or copy & paste the info from the 'guide' pages onto the notepad before activating the site / mission. While running the site I'd make the necessary corrections and update the notepad asap. The reason for using the in-game notepad is so you can still see what's happening on screen and if needed all the info will stay available in the notepad for future game session.

The trick for having time to up date the notepad while running the site is don't clear out all of the NPC's in each specific spawn. Keep a single Frigate or the spawn trigger active and just tank it while writing down info onto the in-game notepad. For amount and type of NPC's in each current wave or spawn, I'd use the Overview to count each hull class size by removing all the others with right click / remove ship or wreck type from Overview. I did that for each hull class size. Then I'd reset the Overview back to normal and continue on with the site.

That's pretty much it. Hope this info helps and good luck to you.


DMC

Wolfgang Jannesen
Czerka.
#8 - 2017-02-26 15:06:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Wolfgang Jannesen
EDIT, didn't read OP's post very thoroughly the first time.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#9 - 2017-02-26 15:18:29 UTC
Cap stability seems to be indicated here more than DPS, just a thought.
If you can tank it and you are cap stable you can sit there literally for hours to write whatever you want to write.

They are not a popular option but NOS can be an side here, simply find an NPC that likes to stay close and use them to aid your cap.
The Larold
This is an anagram of itself.
#10 - 2017-02-26 17:42:32 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
This sorta reminds me of when I was creating and or editing exploration site pages for Evelopedia and Epic Arc pages for Eve Survival. Creating and or editing the pages was started after I ran the content a couple of times before hand. That gave me a pretty good idea of how to approach it.

To start with I used the in-game notepad to record my info and had various 'guide' pages opened for reference with the in-game browser (In-game browser is gone now, play game in windowed mode and use out of game browser). Since I was sorta familiar with the content I would write or copy & paste the info from the 'guide' pages onto the notepad before activating the site / mission. While running the site I'd make the necessary corrections and update the notepad asap. The reason for using the in-game notepad is so you can still see what's happening on screen and if needed all the info will stay available in the notepad for future game session.

The trick for having time to up date the notepad while running the site is don't clear out all of the NPC's in each specific spawn. Keep a single Frigate or the spawn trigger active and just tank it while writing down info onto the in-game notepad. For amount and type of NPC's in each current wave or spawn, I'd use the Overview to count each hull class size by removing all the others with right click / remove ship or wreck type from Overview. I did that for each hull class size. Then I'd reset the Overview back to normal and continue on with the site.

That's pretty much it. Hope this info helps and good luck to you.


DMC



This is outstanding advice. Didn't even think about overview. I'm going to take this approach. Thanks much!
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2017-02-26 18:07:20 UTC
The Larold wrote:
This is outstanding advice. Didn't even think about overview. I'm going to take this approach. Thanks much!

Glad to hear that. Another tactic I forgot to mention is to use Covert Cloak for when you first warp into the site. I would warp in to 100km range, sit there cloaked and list the amount of ships, hull type and their range from the warp in beacon. This tactic is especially useful for listing a large group of NPC's or multiple groups of NPC's present on the initial warp in.


DMC
The Larold
This is an anagram of itself.
#12 - 2017-02-26 18:30:00 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
The Larold wrote:
This is outstanding advice. Didn't even think about overview. I'm going to take this approach. Thanks much!

Glad to hear that. Another tactic I forgot to mention is to use Covert Cloak for when you first warp into the site. I would warp in to 100km range, sit there cloaked and list the amount of ships, hull type and their range from the warp in beacon. This tactic is especially useful for listing a large group of NPC's or multiple groups of NPC's present on the initial warp in.


DMC


So what I'm going to be doing is ultimately getting myself past my OCD clear-every-single wreck compulsion. Sometimes I'm in isk-making mode, so I use the Blitzing Guide google doc that really helps. But other times I just want to kill stuff and make decent money doing it.

So I ask myself, "How much am I giving up in loot and salvage if I ignore everything but BS wrecks?", or "How much am I giving up if I ignore all small wrecks." Stuff like that. I'm going to be very pragmatic, which means tracking which items and salvage come from each wreck. I'll pick some method to establish market value for the loot, and then start grouping it mainly by wreck size, but I also want to break down other statistics. Like, averaged out across 100 small wrecks, 100 medium, and 100 large, what's the ratio look like. How does it vary among the various pirate NPC types. Etc. etc.

I need to educate myself on any logging available that captures this kind of info. If I have to, I can write code to parse massive amounts of raw output. But I have a hunch loot and salvage are not tracked / logged.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#13 - 2017-02-26 20:25:52 UTC
You're not giving up very much by skipping most wrecks. There are only six missions really worth salvaging: Gone Beserk, Damsel, Informant, Rogue Drone, Zazzmatazz and the Enemy series (or Empire-equivalent).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#14 - 2017-02-26 22:09:48 UTC
I think any marauder will be up to the task, for pretty much any mission. dps won't be a huge concern as you are killing slowly on purpose, so it should be easy to throw some extra cap mods and run a permatank. x-type armor reps are under 100m so it should be easy to get a paladin to omnitank 1700+ dps, I imagine the kronos should be similar. Or go golem/varugr and throw either a pith x-type large (under 100m) or gist c-type xl, which are at about 300m, if you minimize bling on the rest of the ship it shouldn't be too gank baity.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Buoytender Bob
Ronin Exploration Mission and Mining
#15 - 2017-02-26 22:36:53 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
You're not giving up very much by skipping most wrecks. There are only six missions really worth salvaging: Gone Beserk, Damsel, Informant, Rogue Drone, Zazzmatazz and the Enemy series (or Empire-equivalent).



Would you put Dread Pirate in there or do you just kill Scarlet in the second room and leave?

To buck the popular trend, I began to Rage Start instead of Rage Quit.

...and every time I get another piece of Carbon, I know exactly what CCP is getting this Christmas.

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#16 - 2017-02-27 01:49:36 UTC
Buoytender Bob wrote:
Would you put Dread Pirate in there or do you just kill Scarlet in the second room and leave?

Yes - kill Scarlet, tractor the implant and leave.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Rei Y
Minmatar Citizen 90483936 Corporation
#17 - 2017-02-27 11:49:13 UTC
now what kind of information are you planning to gather?
because this has anything you can ever want to know about rats in a mission.
The Larold
This is an anagram of itself.
#18 - 2017-02-27 14:11:49 UTC
Rei Y wrote:
now what kind of information are you planning to gather?
because this has anything you can ever want to know about rats in a mission.


While I agree this is a great site, the two pieces of information I'm gathering are exactly what it doesn't have - loot drop samples / averages, and salvage drop samples / averages.



Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#19 - 2017-02-27 21:18:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
The Larold wrote:
While I agree this is a great site, the two pieces of information I'm gathering are exactly what it doesn't have - loot drop samples / averages, and salvage drop samples / averages.

1. Averages are all over the place, but generally outside of those missions listed - suck.
2. Salvaging also generally sucks.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2017-03-07 10:19:26 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
It's been awhile but
* IIRC, cargo scanners can tell you what is in an NPC (everything is doubled). I think it works on NPC wrecks/cans as well.
* EVE's LogServer can track everything you do, but is a pain for various reasons (you need to trim down what is logged, then you still create a hug log that takes forever to load into excel,)
* No idea about the new EVE LogLite tool.
* You'll still need to salvage in order to get salvage metrics.
* Don't forget about screenshots especially in conjunction with ship/cargo scanners.
* Getting a dev drunk and getting the loot/salvage tables is also an option?

Side note: given that multiple NPCs of the same type tend to spawn together, you just need to kill/salvage everything of type X and then record your metrics in batches.



First line is wrong.
Cargo scanner tells you the tag, faction ammo, deadspace modules and overseer's effects you get from an NPC.
The random junk and random faction loot chance (from commanders) gets added in when the NPC gets killed which you don't get to know about until the NPC is a wreck.
So only cargo scanning wrecks will get you what you're looking for.
All i ever got from cargo scanning regular NPCs was metal scraps.
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