These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Ideas for battleships
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Lugh Crow-Slave
#121 - 2017-02-24 10:11:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
problem with this is it will almost always make the t3 worse than (particularly in your example) a t1 cruiser. at best there will be one or two t3s with a single viable set up and the rest of the line just crap :/


like i said best thing for t3 is to be about equal but different than the t2 cruisers


I feel like you could adjust this by tweaking the bonuses and base stats on the ships. Like, there's no reason a tanking module has to just provide resists, it could also provide base HP or something as well. The values could also be tweaked so that, for example, you can get 2 bonuses that are greater than a T1 ship's but not equivalent to the 4 specialized bonuses a T2 hull gets.

The general idea being that you don't really want to pick just one thing to be good at, you want to do something like be like T2 ship X but with Y attribute, like an EWar Cruiser with a lot more tank, or a Logi ship that's faster than normal or something like that.

To me it feels like the two main problems with T3s in general are the high natural EHP they get from T3 resists, and the extra bonuses they get over a T2 ship. For the T3Ds it's the basic hull bonuses combined with the mode swapping, and for the T3Cs its the ability to pick five different bonuses, all of which are about at the level of a T2 ship's bonuses, which allows you to basically min-max something that's better than a T2 ship because you can pick and choose to a large extent and because most of the bonuses aren't actually worse than a T2 hull, especially the overall effect of the tank subsystems on a naturally tanky T3 hull.



the problem is doing two things meh is almost never as good as doing one thing well. maybe there is some sweet spot that could balance this but no way in hell CCP hits it. lol

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Cade Windstalker
#122 - 2017-02-24 15:56:33 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
the problem is doing two things meh is almost never as good as doing one thing well. maybe there is some sweet spot that could balance this but no way in hell CCP hits it. lol


I dunno, we'll see. Like I said it was a spit-ball idea anyway. If I had a really amazing T3 fix that I was sure would work I'd carve it into a marble block and have it delivered to CCP headquarters...

PavlikX wrote:
I support topic starter.
BSs deserve more attention and love from CCP.
There can be a lot of solutions, and main one - bring to them role bonus. Most of them simply have such bonus.
It could be something similar to the BC - additional tracking and so on.


First off, read through the thread, BBes aren't in a bad place.

Second, the vast majority of T1 hulls do not have any sort of role bonus. The one exception is Battlecruisers because they've become basically My First Command Ship.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#123 - 2017-02-24 18:10:37 UTC
Frankly T3C are going to need a lot of work (a hefty nerf). Several things stand out, reduction in fitting room, big reduction in tanking ability and the biggest and most controversial is the number of bonuses these ships get must be slashed. It should not have been left to fester for this long but I can see why they are putting it off, its not going to be easy and it will cause one hell of a flamewar.
Cade Windstalker
#124 - 2017-02-24 18:24:02 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Frankly T3C are going to need a lot of work (a hefty nerf). Several things stand out, reduction in fitting room, big reduction in tanking ability and the biggest and most controversial is the number of bonuses these ships get must be slashed. It should not have been left to fester for this long but I can see why they are putting it off, its not going to be easy and it will cause one hell of a flamewar.


Agreed on all points.

Lets also not forget that nerfing any of those things also affects the others, and on top of that they needed to fix the T1 and T2 ships to even have a decent baseline to nerf them down to.

As much as I agree that I wish they'd done it years ago, I also can't really fault them for not... I think it's probably going to cause more controversy than the cap changes. (in before 90 page threadnaught...)
Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2017-02-24 20:56:50 UTC
I tried to come up with a different T3C setup, but the idea was quite tldr (it took the the OP + 2 comments to write everything) and the thread closed because of inactivity before I had time to make an easier-to-read format...

If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!

But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#126 - 2017-02-25 02:14:45 UTC
Instead of nerfing T3C we need new T3B - then it won't be an issue. Skip the T3C rebalance and focus on the other ships that need it instead.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#127 - 2017-02-25 06:23:15 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Instead of nerfing T3C we need new T3B - then it won't be an issue. Skip the T3C rebalance and focus on the other ships that need it instead.



yeah it's not like they are 0/2 when it comes to balanced t3s

Roll

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#128 - 2017-02-25 09:37:37 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Instead of nerfing T3C we need new T3B - then it won't be an issue. Skip the T3C rebalance and focus on the other ships that need it instead.

Would those have the tank and weapons of dreads AND carriers?
And a super weapon maybe?
Probably with jump portal generating ability too?
In a convenient hi-sec sized package?

Because if we follow the T3 ability line, this is most likely where we will end up.
I'm not against escort carriers (BS with fighters) or anti-structure ships with capital sized weapons, but I can't imagine a T3BS not to be ridiculously overpowered.

If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!

But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2017-02-25 09:48:49 UTC
I've wanted escort/light carriers for years now :(

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Lugh Crow-Slave
#130 - 2017-02-25 10:35:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Kenrailae wrote:
I've wanted escort/light carriers for years now :(




we have those


chimera nid thanny and Archon


and if you mean something even smaller what niche is open they are needed to fill?

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2017-02-25 10:51:53 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
I've wanted escort/light carriers for years now :(




we have those


chimera nid thanny and Archon


and if you mean something even smaller what niche is open they are needed to fill?



actually.... if you look those are called carriers.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Brok Haslack
9624968
#132 - 2017-02-25 13:22:54 UTC
Ok after some more thought:


We need a shield version of the Nestor to bring in some balance there. So we would need the Capacitor of an Amarrian vessel, with the Shield Tanking of a Minmatar battleship.


That Amarrian Capacitor would also help the Vargur ( which is a little weak on Capacitor for a self-repper. Lovely shields, decent shield boosters now on the market, but you can't pump 'em for that long I have to say ).


Escort Carriers ( smaller than the big ones ) could be fun. Flights of 7 drones in a special Battleship? Only 5 turrets to make up for it?


For close-quarters you have 2 options:

- Mixing guns. An APOC with 4 beams & 4 pulses, and better shields than now ( due to Minmatar input ), could help a lot here. Possibly still be T1 too, although I suspect that they'd make it T2 and give it a 20% damage bonus as well as extra shields. Vargur Shields are nice. We need more Vargur Sheilds.

- The Nightmare chassis ( or some-such ), with 5 gun slots. 3 beams, 2 pulses, dead baddies. Also viable. Maybe lose a mid-slot or two to do it. The Nightmare already has a good shield set-up ( almost Vargur-like ).

.

The Ammatar Mandate could provide this stuff in theory, for those who like to keep in story-line.

.

The Vindi should be re-named the Thunderchunky too.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#133 - 2017-02-25 13:38:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Kenrailae wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
I've wanted escort/light carriers for years now :(




we have those


chimera nid thanny and Archon


and if you mean something even smaller what niche is open they are needed to fill?



actually.... if you look those are called carriers.


yet they fill the same role

is it that you just want the name "light carrier" on a ship or is there a niche that they are needed for?

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#134 - 2017-02-25 13:40:15 UTC
Brok Haslack wrote:

Escort Carriers ( smaller than the big ones ) could be fun. Flights of 7 drones in a special Battleship?



we used to have 10 but it was hard on the server so they cut it in half and doubled the effective DPS

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2017-02-25 14:37:52 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
I've wanted escort/light carriers for years now :(




we have those


chimera nid thanny and Archon


and if you mean something even smaller what niche is open they are needed to fill?



actually.... if you look those are called carriers.


yet they fill the same role

is it that you just want the name "light carrier" on a ship or is there a niche that they are needed for?

According to the original design from the contest in 2010, these should be BS sized carriers. I imagine them with the ability to control 1 light or support fighter squad, while can hold maybe 3. Able to move free in hi-sec but can't use accel gates, to prevent using them in incursions and on missions. Maybe a refitting ability, so they can be used as a kind of mobile base. Remote rep/boost bonuses, no ewar resistance, no command burst, no entosis link, no whatever else you usually put on carriers that would make these ridiculously OP.

Niche roles for these could be
- cheap and fairly weak mobile bases to store modules and refit other ships
- BS sized logistic ships: more range and efficiency than cruisers, probably primary at all times
- anti-structure platforms in hi-sec maybe? or you need fighter bombers for that?

If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!

But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.
Wolfgang Jannesen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#136 - 2017-02-25 14:40:19 UTC
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
I've wanted escort/light carriers for years now :(




we have those


chimera nid thanny and Archon


and if you mean something even smaller what niche is open they are needed to fill?



actually.... if you look those are called carriers.


yet they fill the same role

is it that you just want the name "light carrier" on a ship or is there a niche that they are needed for?

According to the original design from the contest in 2010, these should be BS sized carriers. I imagine them with the ability to control 1 light or support fighter squad, while can hold maybe 3. Able to move free in hi-sec but can't use accel gates, to prevent using them in incursions and on missions. Maybe a refitting ability, so they can be used as a kind of mobile base. Remote rep/boost bonuses, no ewar resistance, no command burst, no entosis link, no whatever else you usually put on carriers that would make these ridiculously OP.

Niche roles for these could be
- cheap and fairly weak mobile bases to store modules and refit other ships
- BS sized logistic ships: more range and efficiency than cruisers, probably primary at all times
- anti-structure platforms in hi-sec maybe? or you need fighter bombers for that?


That's exactly what carriers already are, aside from requiring capital skills instead of battleship. What role will these fill that carriers dont already?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#137 - 2017-02-25 14:47:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
I've wanted escort/light carriers for years now :(




we have those


chimera nid thanny and Archon


and if you mean something even smaller what niche is open they are needed to fill?



actually.... if you look those are called carriers.


yet they fill the same role

is it that you just want the name "light carrier" on a ship or is there a niche that they are needed for?

According to the original design from the contest in 2010, these should be BS sized carriers. I imagine them with the ability to control 1 light or support fighter squad, while can hold maybe 3. Able to move free in hi-sec but can't use accel gates, to prevent using them in incursions and on missions. Maybe a refitting ability, so they can be used as a kind of mobile base. Remote rep/boost bonuses, no ewar resistance, no command burst, no entosis link, no whatever else you usually put on carriers that would make these ridiculously OP.

Niche roles for these could be
- cheap and fairly weak mobile bases to store modules and refit other ships
- BS sized logistic ships: more range and efficiency than cruisers, probably primary at all times
- anti-structure platforms in hi-sec maybe? or you need fighter bombers for that?



oh yeah that doesn't seem broken at all. not only do they have RR but they can kick out 1kdps and refit off each other. just like the old carriers that were broken beyond belief only this time they will be even cheaper to field

again i didn't ask what role would be given to them i asked what role needs filling

high dps super logi is not something eve needs


the roles you listed are already filled by other ships in eve

orca/nestor
the T2 logi is BB logi
any BB or ABC

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Cade Windstalker
#138 - 2017-02-25 16:58:50 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
oh yeah that doesn't seem broken at all. not only do they have RR but they can kick out 1kdps and refit off each other. just like the old carriers that were broken beyond belief only this time they will be even cheaper to field

again i didn't ask what role would be given to them i asked what role needs filling

high dps super logi is not something eve needs


the roles you listed are already filled by other ships in eve

orca/nestor
the T2 logi is BB logi
any BB or ABC


Don't forget that BS-sized drone boat is already taken by any Gallente, Guristas, or SOE Battleship.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#139 - 2017-02-25 18:08:57 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
oh yeah that doesn't seem broken at all. not only do they have RR but they can kick out 1kdps and refit off each other. just like the old carriers that were broken beyond belief only this time they will be even cheaper to field

again i didn't ask what role would be given to them i asked what role needs filling

high dps super logi is not something eve needs


the roles you listed are already filled by other ships in eve

orca/nestor
the T2 logi is BB logi
any BB or ABC


Don't forget that BS-sized drone boat is already taken by any Gallente, Guristas, or SOE Battleship.


Also geddon.
Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2017-02-25 22:12:04 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
oh yeah that doesn't seem broken at all. not only do they have RR but they can kick out 1kdps and refit off each other. just like the old carriers that were broken beyond belief only this time they will be even cheaper to field

again i didn't ask what role would be given to them i asked what role needs filling

high dps super logi is not something eve needs


the roles you listed are already filled by other ships in eve

orca/nestor
the T2 logi is BB logi
any BB or ABC


Don't forget that BS-sized drone boat is already taken by any Gallente, Guristas, or SOE Battleship.


Also geddon.

I don't know what roles still missing from the game. Could you name a few please?
Also, is it really necessary for every ship to have a niche role? Can't we make something to increase the variety, or because it's an interesting idea?
What niche role do the attack battle cruisers have? Having oversized weapons is a niche? Why don't we have destroyers with medium guns and battleships with capital guns then?

If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!

But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.