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Guardian's Gala Event FAIL

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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#101 - 2017-02-23 06:33:59 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Scialt wrote:
It's still an account. Just like killing a bot miner is still recorded as PvP... competing against a bot in the market is still "market PvP".

These scenarios aren't PvP - they're PvE.

I agree. Miners aren't really players.

Killing a miner should be refered to as PvE, becuase they are just part of the environment. They have no real intelligence and aren't engaged in the play at all.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
Seventh Sanctum.
#102 - 2017-02-23 07:43:03 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
Show me where i ganged someon in high sec :)

This Bestower in Kaunokka: https://zkillboard.com/kill/5023328/
You were killed immediately afterwards, in the same minute, by the Caldari Sentry Guns: https://zkillboard.com/kill/5023330/

Naye Nathaniel wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:

fulltime pvp in a sandbox environment.

Were looking for it but can't find it ;)

https://puu.sh/ucJXb/44438a1116.png (the whole paragraph is relevant, especially in relation to the statement that pvp is highsec is forbidden).

there's also this bit:

https://puu.sh/ucJ8S/5ec61bf960.png


Really? u are showing me a kill from 2008?

About the link what u mentioned

https://puu.sh/ucJXb/44438a1116.png -> there are few more abilities than just reading - it's called also an UNDERSTANDING;
CCP did not said "EVE IS A PVP SANDBOX GAME" they said "Eve is a pvp game IN SANDBOX WORLD" (well guess what . WoW is also a pvp game in sandbox world - well hell ALL THE MMO are that! hello to the world!)

And i already placed u another statment which is more correct that your funstories.
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
Seventh Sanctum.
#103 - 2017-02-23 07:43:49 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Scialt wrote:
It's still an account. Just like killing a bot miner is still recorded as PvP... competing against a bot in the market is still "market PvP".

These scenarios aren't PvP - they're PvE.

I agree. Miners aren't really players.

Killing a miner should be refered to as PvE, becuase they are just part of the environment. They have no real intelligence and aren't engaged in the play at all.


Hope so you are trolling cause without a miner u won't even get an a rifter;
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#104 - 2017-02-23 10:50:06 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
I agree. Miners aren't really players.

Killing a miner should be refered to as PvE, becuase they are just part of the environment. They have no real intelligence and aren't engaged in the play at all.

I can't tell if you're serious or just being facetious... But yes, mining is one of those borderline styles of PvE play which also extend to trading and planetary interaction. I wouldn't cllassify these as unintelligent but rather, "less immersive".

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#105 - 2017-02-23 11:00:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
Really? u are showing me a kill from 2008?

About the link what u mentioned

https://puu.sh/ucJXb/44438a1116.png -> there are few more abilities than just reading - it's called also an UNDERSTANDING;
CCP did not said "EVE IS A PVP SANDBOX GAME" they said "Eve is a pvp game IN SANDBOX WORLD" (well guess what . WoW is also a pvp game in sandbox world - well hell ALL THE MMO are that! hello to the world!)

And i already placed u another statment which is more correct that your funstories.

You asked for proof that you had ganked someone in highsec. You got proof. You were a ganker at one point.

As to what CCP have said, they didn't say either of what you've written there (and neither did I). They said as quoted earlier:

"The essential core concept of EVE Online is that it is a fulltime pvp in a sandbox environment...In highsec there may be consequences if a pilot attacks another without just cause, but they can still make that attack if they wish"

That is in stark contract to your claim earlier that "any behavior of ganking others in High sec space is forbidden."

Ganking is not forbidden. It's perfectly allowed within the rules of the game. You've been a ganker, so should know this already.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#106 - 2017-02-23 11:08:05 UTC
Not entirely sure how a thread about the Guardian's Gala event turned into another ganking discussion, but carry-on...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
Seventh Sanctum.
#107 - 2017-02-23 11:30:01 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
Really? u are showing me a kill from 2008?

About the link what u mentioned

https://puu.sh/ucJXb/44438a1116.png -> there are few more abilities than just reading - it's called also an UNDERSTANDING;
CCP did not said "EVE IS A PVP SANDBOX GAME" they said "Eve is a pvp game IN SANDBOX WORLD" (well guess what . WoW is also a pvp game in sandbox world - well hell ALL THE MMO are that! hello to the world!)

And i already placed u another statment which is more correct that your funstories.

You asked for proof that you had ganked someone in highsec. You got proof. You were a ganker at one point.

As to what CCP have said, they didn't say either of what you've written there (and neither did I). They said as quoted earlier:

"The essential core concept of EVE Online is that it is a fulltime pvp in a sandbox environment...In highsec there may be consequences if a pilot attacks another without just cause, but they can still make that attack if they wish"

That is in stark contract to your claim earlier that "any behavior of ganking others in High sec space is forbidden."

Ganking is not forbidden. It's perfectly allowed within the rules of the game. You've been a ganker, so should know this already.


Let's make it clear;
Since when saying "Eve is a PVP game";
Means: Ganking others in high sec is alowed as if im not wrong I already give you a proof its not?

And yeah... this is not a topic about ganking others...
Im just bitching the gala sites stops spawning but it like to spawn again since 2 days ago;
Can;t get it;
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#108 - 2017-02-23 12:42:41 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
Sorry for going off topic but I gotta respond to this.
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
Really? u are showing me a kill from 2008?

About the link what u mentioned

https://puu.sh/ucJXb/44438a1116.png -> there are few more abilities than just reading - it's called also an UNDERSTANDING;
CCP did not said "EVE IS A PVP SANDBOX GAME" they said "Eve is a pvp game IN SANDBOX WORLD" (well guess what . WoW is also a pvp game in sandbox world - well hell ALL THE MMO are that! hello to the world!)

And i already placed u another statment which is more correct that your funstories.

You asked for proof that you had ganked someone in highsec. You got proof. You were a ganker at one point.

As to what CCP have said, they didn't say either of what you've written there (and neither did I). They said as quoted earlier:

"The essential core concept of EVE Online is that it is a fulltime pvp in a sandbox environment...In highsec there may be consequences if a pilot attacks another without just cause, but they can still make that attack if they wish"

That is in stark contract to your claim earlier that "any behavior of ganking others in High sec space is forbidden."

Ganking is not forbidden. It's perfectly allowed within the rules of the game. You've been a ganker, so should know this already.

Dude, you're stretching it quite thin now. He said forbidden, not prohibited.

If it was prohibited in Empire space, players wouldn't be able to do it.
If it was allowed in Empire space, there wouldn't be any consequences for that action.
Plain and simple, it's forbidden by Empire law which means players can still do it but they'll suffer consequences for that action.

In high sec, Concord will dispense swift retribution and destroy the attacking ship. The attacker's security status is lowered and they're flagged as a criminal for 15 minutes allowing everyone to freely attack them.

In low sec, Gate / Station guns within range will fire on the attacker. The attacker's security status is lowered and they're flagged as a criminal for 15 minutes allowing everyone to freely attack them.

Bottom line, in Empire space all unjustified attacks on capsuleers is forbidden, not prohibited or allowed. Now if you're in null sec or w-space then it's allowed with no consequences whatsoever.


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Wolfgang Jannesen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#109 - 2017-02-23 13:12:51 UTC
Ganking is not a gameplay issue. /thread
pinkajoo
#110 - 2017-02-23 13:28:24 UTC
@why ganking
Haha, I was in an Alpha Gnosis the other day and I was doing these sites for a while. Then this Ishtar suddenly pops up @75km while I was on the last cruiser - just in time for the BC - what effing lucky timing. So as expected, he sniped the BC and the wreck was yellow to me.

But he was @65km.
(Did he just assume im a carebear?!11!)

I turned off my safety, aligned and looted the yellow wreck and jumped out laughing! In hindsight, I should've typed GF in local.. He followed me for a bit, did the old keep-gate-cloak switcharoo as he assumed I warped off into another Gala site on one system and burned back to gate to backtrack to the past systems we jumped thru.

As I was logging off in a station, I saw his name pop up in local. Big smile.

There was a lot of times I could've been tackled at gates since I was a suspect, this particular sniper could've had a tackling alt nearby while we were back at that site, etc etc.. the event does generate opportunities for conflict and the means to 'settle' them.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#111 - 2017-02-23 16:14:57 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Dude, you're stretching it quite thin now. He said forbidden, not prohibited.

If it was prohibited in Empire space, players wouldn't be able to do it.

Hombre,

There may be some cultural difference in the understanding of forbidden. I'm not normally one to go to definitions, since that borders on pedantry. In this case, it explains well why I don't agree that pvp in highsec is forbidden: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/forbidden


DeMichael Crimson wrote:
In low sec, Gate / Station guns within range will fire on the attacker. The attacker's security status is lowered and they're flagged as a criminal for 15 minutes allowing everyone to freely attack them.

Incorrect. If you are going to quote mechanics, at least get them correct. If you activate a module against a pod in lowsec, you will be flagged criminal. if you just shoot a ship, you'll be flagged suspect.
Yarosara Ruil
#112 - 2017-02-23 16:55:12 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:

I agree. Miners aren't really players.

Killing a miner should be refered to as PvE, becuase they are just part of the environment. They have no real intelligence and aren't engaged in the play at all.


Your CODE. narrative is showing.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#113 - 2017-02-24 09:53:30 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
Scipio Artelius wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
In low sec, Gate / Station guns within range will fire on the attacker. The attacker's security status is lowered and they're flagged as a criminal for 15 minutes allowing everyone to freely attack them.

Incorrect. If you are going to quote mechanics, at least get them correct. If you activate a module against a pod in lowsec, you will be flagged criminal. if you just shoot a ship, you'll be flagged suspect.

OK, you're right on the flagging issue.

However you're still giving the wrong impression when you say doing an unprovoked attack on another Capsuleer in Empire space is allowed.

In-game there's Legal and Illegal Aggression

Aggression is legal if the target is in your corporation (friendly fire enabled), at war with your corporation, alliance or militia, has a security status of -5 or lower, has a suspect timer, has a criminal timer, or has a limited engagement timer with you. These targets can be engaged in any security level of space without any consequences. Any target that doesn't meet this criteria is an illegal target and will gain the following consequences depending on the security level of the space they're in.

In high security space (1.0 to 0.5):
Security status loss
Gain a criminal flag
CONCORD destroys ship
Sentry guns attack if within 150km range

In low security space (0.4 to 0.1):
Security status loss
Gain a suspect flag for attacking a ship
Gain a criminal flag for attacking a capsule
Sentry guns attack if within 150km range

In null security space or wormholes:
No consequences


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#114 - 2017-02-24 23:34:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
However you're still giving the wrong impression when you say doing an unprovoked attack on another Capsuleer in Empire space is allowed.

In-game there's Legal and Illegal Aggression

That's just a different use of words. I'm not saying there are no consequences. There are, but players are still allowed to shoot other players in highsec.

The guy claiming ganking is forbidden is now claiming it's against the EULA. It clearly isn't. It's an allowed mechanic. There are consequences for doing it, but in CCP's own words (which is also quoted above - so not sure where the wrong impression would come from):

"...In highsec there may be consequences if a pilot attacks another without just cause, but they can still make that attack if they wish"
Penance Toralen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#115 - 2017-02-25 00:43:48 UTC
It is something of a pity that a mechanic/event oriented towards Alphas did not have rewards equally orientated to their ship lineup.
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2017-02-25 00:46:42 UTC
Penance Toralen wrote:
It is something of a pity that a mechanic/event oriented towards Alphas did not have rewards equally orientated to their ship lineup.


It wasn't oriented towards Alphas, it was oriented towards everyone. It was a delivery vehicle to give us the skins. That is all it was.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#117 - 2017-02-25 01:23:42 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
Scipio Artelius wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
However you're still giving the wrong impression when you say doing an unprovoked attack on another Capsuleer in Empire space is allowed.

In-game there's Legal and Illegal Aggression

That's just a different use of words. I'm not saying there are no consequences. There are, but players are still allowed to shoot other players in highsec.

The guy claiming ganking is forbidden is now claiming it's against the EULA. It clearly isn't. It's an allowed mechanic. There are consequences for doing it, but in CCP's own words (which is also quoted above - so not sure where the wrong impression would come from):

"...In highsec there may be consequences if a pilot attacks another without just cause, but they can still make that attack if they wish"

The wrong impression is when you say it's allowed which basically implies no consequences for that action.

It could be expressed better, such as 'Players may shoot other players in high sec but will face consequences for unprovoked attacks.'


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#118 - 2017-02-25 09:47:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:

"...In highsec there may be consequences if a pilot attacks another without just cause, but they can still make that attack if they wish"

The wrong impression is when you say it's allowed which basically implies no consequences for that action.

It could be expressed better, such as 'Players may shoot other players in high sec but will face consequences for unprovoked attacks.'

Can't be written any clearer than the quote included, for the fourth time now.

But ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, how you interpret words doesn't mean that was my intent and from past experience, if I'd written something different, someone else would have interpreted it in the way that allows them to object, just like here.

It's why I generally go for quotes directly from CCP. If you want to argue with their words, go address them.

As for me, I'm happy to write that it is allowed to shoot anyone, anytime, anywhere, for whatever reason. Shooting other people is not forbidden anywhere in EVE (and certainly not against the EULA). There are consequences, but it's not forbidden.
Wolfgang Jannesen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#119 - 2017-02-25 14:56:56 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
However you're still giving the wrong impression when you say doing an unprovoked attack on another Capsuleer in Empire space is allowed.

In-game there's Legal and Illegal Aggression

That's just a different use of words. I'm not saying there are no consequences. There are, but players are still allowed to shoot other players in highsec.

The guy claiming ganking is forbidden is now claiming it's against the EULA. It clearly isn't. It's an allowed mechanic. There are consequences for doing it, but in CCP's own words (which is also quoted above - so not sure where the wrong impression would come from):

"...In highsec there may be consequences if a pilot attacks another without just cause, but they can still make that attack if they wish"

The wrong impression is when you say it's allowed which basically implies no consequences for that action.

It could be expressed better, such as 'Players may shoot other players in high sec but will face consequences for unprovoked attacks.'


DMC


CONCORD is a punishment if you attacked a target that wasn't worth a heck of a lot. There have been a lot of posts trying to deal with highsec aggression this past week, but they're all totally nuts, If you're undocked, you're unsafe, regardless of a CONCORD presence,
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#120 - 2017-02-25 15:04:36 UTC
I'm perfectly safe when I undock in high-sec. At least for 30 seconds anyway...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.