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High sec ganking with expendable toons revisited
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Mikhem
Taxisk Unlimited
#1 - 2017-02-25 05:13:24 UTC
It seems that lot of high sec ganking happens with expendable toons. Toon is deleted after it is used for high sec ganking and some even use alpha accounts for this. I have thought that high sec ganking with expendable toons should have consequences.

Omega account expendable toons:
- If you delete toon with kill rights or capsuleer bounty then kill rights and capsuleer bounty become account wide meaning all toons in same account share kill rights and capsuleer bounties.

Alpha account expendable toons:
- You get criminal flag when you gank someone in high sec. Alpha accounts should get half hour criminal flag that is not removed when your ship is destroyed. This still does not allow destroying your pod but you cannot fly any ship for half hour. There could also be 30 minute log off timer meaning you cannot log in any other toon in any account in 30 minutes.

Many high sec freighter ganks include up to 100+ capsuleers. There should be easy way to set kill rights for every capsuleer in your kill mail. Setting them one by one can be quite work.

Comments are welcome for my idea.

Mikhem

Link library to EVE music songs.
Madd Adda
#2 - 2017-02-25 05:20:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Madd Adda
Isn't the biomass timer still 10 hours? that's a bit long to wait for an expendable pilot. Or are you speaking of expendable accounts?


Bounties are a complete joke, especially if all toons after deletion get the same amount of bounty.

one last thing

Quote:
but you cannot fly any ship for half hour. There could also be 30 minute log off timer meaning you cannot log in any other toon in any account in 30 minutes.


that's a bit too harsh and restrictive, even for gankers...

Carebear extraordinaire
Lugh Crow-Slave
#3 - 2017-02-25 05:37:18 UTC
technically bio-massing to avoid consequences like standings hit is a no no iirc

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Mikhem
Taxisk Unlimited
#4 - 2017-02-25 06:53:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Mikhem
Madd Adda wrote:

Quote:
but you cannot fly any ship for half hour. There could also be 30 minute log off timer meaning you cannot log in any other toon in any account in 30 minutes.


that's a bit too harsh and restrictive, even for gankers...

But this restriction would only come for alpha account gankers (alpha account = free account).

edit:

Everyone is encouraged to use permanent omega account toons for high sec ganking with this system.

Mikhem

Link library to EVE music songs.
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#5 - 2017-02-25 08:13:39 UTC
Mikhem wrote:
It seems that lot of high sec ganking happens with expendable toons. Toon is deleted after it is used for high sec ganking and some even use alpha accounts for this. I have thought that high sec ganking with expendable toons should have consequences.

Omega account expendable toons:
- If you delete toon with kill rights or capsuleer bounty then kill rights and capsuleer bounty become account wide meaning all toons in same account share kill rights and capsuleer bounties.


Comments are welcome for my idea.


it is against rule to biomass alt to avoid security status.

you bring solution to problem that don't exists
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#6 - 2017-02-25 10:33:05 UTC
There was discussion about safety locking Alphas in highsec when the concept was first introduced. The decision was that it was unnecessary and they should be able to participate in this aspect of the game. As someone who regularly flies the major trade routes, I don't see a problem. If CCP or CSM see a problem, they haven't mentioned it.

Non-consensual PVP is part of the game and essential to balance the economy. Stuff doesn't wear out or go obsolete - market demand is driven by destruction. As an industrialist, I take precautions and build an occasional loss into my business plan - no big deal. If you're getting blown up on a regular basis, you're doing something wrong - the way you play the game needs to change, not the game itself.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2017-02-25 10:48:49 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Deleting a character to avoid sec status penalties is a bannable offence and applies to both alpha and omega clones.


Mikhem wrote:
There should be easy way to set kill rights for every capsuleer in your kill mail. Setting them one by one can be quite work.



Fair point.
Mikhem
Taxisk Unlimited
#8 - 2017-02-25 10:54:37 UTC

unidenify wrote:
it is against rule to biomass alt to avoid security status.

you bring solution to problem that don't exists

baltec1 wrote:
Deleting a character to avoid sec status penalties is a bannable offence and applies to both alpha and omega clones.

Thank you both for telling me this I didn't know there were limits for this.

Alpha accounts however are expendable accounts so problem is still here. I proposed solution for this. Alpha accounts can suicide gank in high sec only one time per half hour.

Mikhem

Link library to EVE music songs.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#9 - 2017-02-25 12:07:59 UTC
One time per half hour doesn't stop anything. Just log on a new alpha for the next gank.

Ganking is still so rare we shouldn't be nerfing it.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Wolfgang Jannesen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2017-02-25 14:15:12 UTC
There's nothing against gameplay rules and intentions with highsec ganking, nothing needs to get changed if it's working as intended.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#11 - 2017-02-25 15:59:15 UTC
Wolfgang Jannesen wrote:
There's nothing against gameplay rules and intentions with highsec ganking, nothing needs to get changed if it's working as intended.

Essentially this statement is incorrect, ganking is not now and never has been an "intended" game play style so at this basic level ganking is not working as intended. On the other hand CCP has made it clear that they support ganking as an "emergent" game play style so so we are stuck with it for now.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#12 - 2017-02-25 19:35:28 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Wolfgang Jannesen wrote:
There's nothing against gameplay rules and intentions with highsec ganking, nothing needs to get changed if it's working as intended.

Essentially this statement is incorrect, ganking is not now and never has been an "intended" game play style so at this basic level ganking is not working as intended. On the other hand CCP has made it clear that they support ganking as an "emergent" game play style so so we are stuck with it for now.

Emergent?

It's been in the game for 14 years. How long does it have to keep emerging for before it's just gameplay?

Where has CCP made it clear that ganking is emergent gameplay?

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#13 - 2017-02-25 19:43:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Mikhem wrote:
It seems that lot of high sec ganking happens with expendable toons. Toon is deleted after it is used for high sec ganking ...

Any evidence for any of this being "a lot", or when you say "it seems...", you really mean, you dreamed it therefore it must be true?

Quote:
Many high sec freighter ganks include up to 100+ capsuleers. There should be easy way to set kill rights for every capsuleer in your kill mail. Setting them one by one can be quite work.

Up to 100, or 100+? The combination of both those claims makes little sense.

Also, what evidence do you have that many highsec freighter tanks are using 100+ characters?

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#14 - 2017-02-25 21:08:34 UTC
Here is a better alternative to highsec ganking balance:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=512384&find=unread
Mikhem
Taxisk Unlimited
#15 - 2017-02-25 23:14:38 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Here is a better alternative to highsec ganking balance:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=512384&find=unread

I actually don't want to make high sec completely safe. Sense of danger is EVE. When you fly in space you take risk.

Mikhem

Link library to EVE music songs.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#16 - 2017-02-26 14:51:09 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Donnachadh wrote:
Wolfgang Jannesen wrote:
There's nothing against gameplay rules and intentions with highsec ganking, nothing needs to get changed if it's working as intended.

Essentially this statement is incorrect, ganking is not now and never has been an "intended" game play style so at this basic level ganking is not working as intended. On the other hand CCP has made it clear that they support ganking as an "emergent" game play style so so we are stuck with it for now.

Emergent?

It's been in the game for 14 years. How long does it have to keep emerging for before it's just gameplay?

Where has CCP made it clear that ganking is emergent gameplay?

I will try to find the link, lost it in a hard drive crash.

It will be an emergent game play style until it is removed, or the game of EvE is no longer available to play which ever comes first.
Emergent game play is a statement of how it arrived in the game, not a statement of what it currently is. Other emergent game play activities that are quite popular are living in worm holes, the ability to solo 10/10 DeD sites and the ability to solo level 5 missions.
Wolfgang Jannesen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2017-02-26 15:28:05 UTC
People who like to hole up in hisec feel like ganking is an unintentional side effect of this beast CCP created. In all reality, once you undock your ship is at risk and it should be that way. CONCORD doesn't show up immediately on purpose, Its unfortunate that you lost a ship, but you're going to lose hundreds. I've seen the argument thrown around it was never intentionally designed like that, and I've heard that argument for years and years now.

Yes people should be able to kill you if they can pop you before CONCORD shows up.
Cristl
#18 - 2017-02-26 16:50:51 UTC
Quote:
It is against the rules to biomass alts to avoid security status loss.

Is farcical. I've never heard of anyone ever saying they were banned for this. That's from a dozen years of eve-o, kugu, scrap/failheap and reddit forums. Never.

How could they prove it? You'd just say you were sick of the name, or didn't like that character's reputation any longer. What, they're going to force you to fly to Iceland, inject sodium pentothol, extract a confession...? If they were serious about this then they would just not allow you to biomass with negative sec status - job done.

But ganking is fine. It's not a problem. Don't be overly lazy or stupid, or be prepared to pay an ISK cost for being lazy and/or stupid.

When ice chunks were in their old super-huge state, and after the barge rebalance, I mined ice in Halaima every day on two procurers while I walked my dog for an hour. Never killed or bumped once in about six months. In the heart of "code" territory, too. I guess two shit-fit procs just weren't tasty enough. *shrugs*
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#19 - 2017-02-26 23:20:21 UTC
It's against the TOS to biomass/role new characters to avoid consequences of ganking. Report people who you think are doing that.

As far as ganking in general, it's harder than ever to do that now. If you're watching local and d-scanning, you will never be ganked.
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#20 - 2017-02-27 05:32:26 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
It's against the TOS to biomass/role new characters to avoid consequences of ganking. Report people who you think are doing that.

As far as ganking in general, it's harder than ever to do that now. If you're watching local and d-scanning, you will never be ganked.


i blame the auto-pilot butaaaaaaaan!!!

Just Add Water
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