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[March] Mobile Warp Disruptor changes

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Author
Davionia Vanshel
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
#221 - 2017-02-24 01:41:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Davionia Vanshel
Most of the bubble complaints I have seen come from large nullsec blocks who allow their indy guys and ratters to defensively bubble their ratting and mining systems. They then "forget" to un-anchor them, which invariably leads to blue shooting bubbles, or some salty strat op FC complaining about their fleet being bubbled by their own alliance members off ratting etc. So with bubbles now generating killmails you get to see who (anchored it) to kick from Alliance right?

In null, getting bubbled by an uncamped bubble means a bit of burning. The counter to an uncamped bubble on the gate is to shoot the bubble or MWD out. If the bubble is camped then it will be there timer or not. As far as drag or stop bubbles go: the counter is literally do anything less stupid than warping gate to gate in anything not nullified.

Getting bubbled is the price of admission to nullsec. Jumps high to null and not get bubbled -> WTF? Eve must be dying.
Gratz CCP on your attempted counter to stupidiy and laziness.
Jacques Arkaral
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#222 - 2017-02-24 05:35:18 UTC
Mr Floydy wrote:
Jacques Arkaral wrote:
Cloaky Campers


Have you ever been killed by a cloaky camper? Has it ever interacted with you in a negative way? No ofcourse not. it's cloaked up and probably afk...

sigh...


Funny you should ask. Goop Loop And Guplup Ikkla [Same Guy] Did manage to Hot drop us twice. After being in system for 2 weeks, we assumed he was AFK camping. Well, apparently he wasn't always away. We got dropped. Managed to slip him and his crew.

The point is, yes, they are still an issue as he like many others get paid to do it.
yogizh
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#223 - 2017-02-24 07:17:15 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Good start, though I'd like to see all bubbles die in 24 hours or less.

Now lets remove nullification from anything but an interceptor.



And give it an equal skill tree to highest tier nullified ship in game. tia
Also nice comments from CSM members, thank you for your valued opinions Bob and Steve mainly. Truly great posting.
Roll
yogizh
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#224 - 2017-02-24 07:18:25 UTC
Disallow cyno on interceptors CCP and see how PL changes their rhetoric. Lol
Max Khaos
Un-protected Plex
#225 - 2017-02-24 14:48:15 UTC
CSM (Goons( vote to change the jump range = range changed.

CSM (Goons) want to change mobile bubbles = bubbles changed.

As the CSM is elected by votes and entities like Goons force everyone to vote for
their candidate this highlights why the CSM mechanics are broken and corrupt.

Another pointless time wasting change while the major problems still stay unfixed.



_______________________________________________
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
#226 - 2017-02-24 18:09:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Max Khaos wrote:
CSM (Goons( vote to change the jump range = range changed.

CSM (Goons) want to change mobile bubbles = bubbles changed.

As the CSM is elected by votes and entities like Goons force everyone to vote for
their candidate this highlights why the CSM mechanics are broken and corrupt.

Another pointless time wasting change while the major problems still stay unfixed.





Give one good reason why mobile disrupors should have an unlimited life. Other than "I want to camp myself into dead end pockets so I can contribute nothing to the game and just rat all day"

The CSM panel represents a huge % of the player base, CCP takes feedback then converses with the other members and if everyone is in agreement changes are made.

CCP needs to keep the majority happy not the minority, this is a business they need people to pay to play, they do not work for free. They have a bottom line to focus on, they have families to feed.

The comments about perma cloaky camping are valid, and I bet CCP has changes in mind that will come eventually, or soon TM.
Cade Windstalker
#227 - 2017-02-24 19:09:25 UTC
Yeah, anyone who thinks this bubble change was purely motivated by *any* large null block is just clueless. This sort of thing has been requested in every vaguely bubble related thread in the last two years at least, because the bubble spam in Null is ridiculous.

I highly recommend going and reading the drag changes thread for a start... https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=486438&find=unread
Max Khaos
Un-protected Plex
#228 - 2017-02-24 19:59:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Khaos
Anyone who doesn't think big alliance are steering changes that benefit themselves and not the major player base is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Any major alliance can almost guarantee a seat on the CSM after the "mandatory" vote for X alliance mail goes out.

The CSM is broken and will always be until it is picked at random.

Currently CSM 11 has the following

4 x Pandemic Legion

3 x Goons

We all believe that's a good cross section of the eve community Roll

You only need to look back at past CSM's 10,9,8,7 etc and they all follow the same pattern.
_______________________________________________
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#229 - 2017-02-24 20:41:48 UTC
Max Khaos wrote:
Anyone who doesn't think big alliance are steering changes that benefit themselves and not the major player base is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Any major alliance can almost guarantee a seat on the CSM after the "mandatory" vote for X alliance mail goes out.

The CSM is broken and will always be until it is picked at random.

Currently CSM 11 has the following

4 x Pandemic Legion

3 x Goons

We all believe that's a good cross section of the eve community Roll

You only need to look back at past CSM's 10,9,8,7 etc and they all follow the same pattern.


This. Minority show that doesn't represent 10% of eve, selected based on number of alts voting for them.
At least make it one vote per pay system account, that way we have a chance for 1-2 non-minority-bloc members on it... to be ignored in favor of minority bloc yelling at CCP to push their agenda.
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#230 - 2017-02-24 20:50:31 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Yeah, anyone who thinks this bubble change was purely motivated by *any* large null block is just clueless. This sort of thing has been requested in every vaguely bubble related thread in the last two years at least, because the bubble spam in Null is ridiculous.

I highly recommend going and reading the drag changes thread for a start... https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=486438&find=unread


Nobody here is against any bubble changes at all.
But man, TWO DAYS?!
Some mentally deficient see 2 weeks on syndicate bubbles which are useless and inaccessible to everyone except syndicate blobbers who pushed for this change, and yell bloody murder. Relax, those can't be used anyway.
One week for T2 bubbles, but since they will be lost left and right and cannot be produced unless you're in a bloc that holds a regionfull of moons, they are irreplaceable and cannot be used also. If we're lucky and have all the needed moons, add their fuel cost to this equation and you don't want to see the result.
Which leaves us with the only replaceable alternative which is... TWO ******* DAYS ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?

This is not a solution to reported problems, this is just NO RATTING ALLOWED WITHOUT HAND ON BATPHONE thing. It's basically a murder. If you want bubbles, it's gonna be a huge cost per constellation, not to mention keeping a neutral alt to place them to avoid blowing up this cost even more in losses on free intel. Only a bloc bastard could even suggest such a thing.

20 days minimum, so you could at least pick a weekend for this giant chore. Any less is just not viable.
No killmails or triple their tank, since it's too much free intel.
And generally, this is not solving problems, this is creating them. Seek another solution.
Cade Windstalker
#231 - 2017-02-24 20:56:26 UTC
Orca Platypus wrote:
This. Minority show that doesn't represent 10% of eve, selected based on number of alts voting for them.
At least make it one vote per pay system account, that way we have a chance for 1-2 non-minority-bloc members on it... to be ignored in favor of minority bloc yelling at CCP to push their agenda.


First off, if you're PLEXing your accounts this wouldn't affect anything (and many many Null people do). Second, multiple credit cards are a thing, and most adults have them.

Max Khaos wrote:
Anyone who doesn't think big alliance are steering changes that benefit themselves and not the major player base is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Any major alliance can almost guarantee a seat on the CSM after the "mandatory" vote for X alliance mail goes out.

The CSM is broken and will always be until it is picked at random.

Currently CSM 11 has the following

4 x Pandemic Legion

3 x Goons

We all believe that's a good cross section of the eve community Roll

You only need to look back at past CSM's 10,9,8,7 etc and they all follow the same pattern.


The idea of randomly selected CSMs is a joke. I'm all for more representation on the council but the reason we don't have it is because Null is organized, Null is full of people who are invested in and care about the game, and Null is full of people who are knowledgeable about the game. The big popular personalities tend to end up in Null.

If High Sec could put forward a decent candidate or three and agree that they're good they could get all three in, but it just doesn't happen.

If CSMs were randomly selected you'd end up with a bunch of angry guys who don't do any work and one or two over worked people who actually understand the game and try to work with CCP to make it better.
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
#232 - 2017-02-24 21:04:17 UTC
Anything longer than 24 hours is rediculous.
Cade Windstalker
#233 - 2017-02-24 21:04:54 UTC
Orca Platypus wrote:
Nobody here is against any bubble changes at all.
But man, TWO DAYS?!
Some mentally deficient see 2 weeks on syndicate bubbles which are useless and inaccessible to everyone except syndicate blobbers who pushed for this change, and yell bloody murder. Relax, those can't be used anyway.
One week for T2 bubbles, but since they will be lost left and right and cannot be produced unless you're in a bloc that holds a regionfull of moons, they are irreplaceable and cannot be used also. If we're lucky and have all the needed moons, add their fuel cost to this equation and you don't want to see the result.
Which leaves us with the only replaceable alternative which is... TWO ******* DAYS ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?

This is not a solution to reported problems, this is just NO RATTING ALLOWED WITHOUT HAND ON BATPHONE thing. It's basically a murder. If you want bubbles, it's gonna be a huge cost per constellation, not to mention keeping a neutral alt to place them to avoid blowing up this cost even more in losses on free intel. Only a bloc bastard could even suggest such a thing.

20 days minimum, so you could at least pick a weekend for this giant chore. Any less is just not viable.
No killmails or triple their tank, since it's too much free intel.
And generally, this is not solving problems, this is creating them. Seek another solution.


So, first off, the idea that T2 bubbles can't be used is laughable. They get used all the time, just mostly for the range. Currently the Smalls are 7m, the Mediums are 14m, and the Larges are about 32m.

Want to avoid massive costs? Then simply take the bubbles down when you're done with them and they won't go anywhere. They only disappear if they're killed or if they expire, and the killing thing isn't *that* infrequent at present.

Your whole whine here is more or less specific to your situation and apparent desire to bubble gates to the nth degree. You can cover a gate with a couple T2 large bubbles and maybe one small per significant celestial if you feel the need for drag bubbles, but that's hardly required for ratting safety.

Oh and bubble KMs aren't free intel, they're the cost of the bubble, and if no one's around nothing forces you to kill the bubble in the first place. If someone is around you're outed anyway so you may as well pop the bubbles if you want.
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#234 - 2017-02-24 21:08:48 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
First off, if you're PLEXing your accounts this wouldn't affect anything (and many many Null people do). Second, multiple credit cards are a thing, and most adults have them.


Fine. Most people still don't plex all their alts and don't pay subs from multiple cards (and have more alts than cards in most cases). it's a step towards broader representation and not null bloc minority of alt spammers.


Cade Windstalker wrote:
The idea of randomly selected CSMs is a joke. I'm all for more representation on the council but the reason we don't have it is because Null is organized, Null is full of people who are invested in and care about the game, and Null is full of people who are knowledgeable about the game. The big popular personalities tend to end up in Null.

Hisec, even depopulated to 1/3 of what it was in 2012 before CFCSM NERF HISEC campaign started, is still more popular than nullsec. The problem is, it's mostly populated with people who do not want to deal with alliance fatcats and thus don't care as much.

Cade Windstalker wrote:
If High Sec could put forward a decent candidate or three and agree that they're good they could get all three in, but it just doesn't happen.

Wrong. FW is also organized, can they put their candidate? No chance in hell.
The only "hisec candidate" ever to make was vegetable and goon pet Mike, who did literally anything NERF HISEC group told him, mostly being a vegetable and worst CSM rep ever.

Cade Windstalker wrote:
If CSMs were randomly selected you'd end up with a bunch of angry guys who don't do any work and one or two over worked people who actually understand the game and try to work with CCP to make it better.

Which would be one or two people BETTER than current full bloc minority CSM that doesn't represent 10% of eve.
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#235 - 2017-02-24 21:19:33 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
So, first off, the idea that T2 bubbles can't be used is laughable. They get used all the time, just mostly for the range. Currently the Smalls are 7m, the Mediums are 14m, and the Larges are about 32m.

Cannot be produced = cannot be used, hence inaccessible.
Unless you live on jita undock, which seems to be your case.

Cade Windstalker wrote:
Want to avoid massive costs? Then simply take the bubbles down when you're done with them and they won't go anywhere. They only disappear if they're killed or if they expire, and the killing thing isn't *that* infrequent at present.

Killing would become abundant with killmails, both for safe kb padding and free intel.
Just placing them is 60 manhours per month cost, taking them down adds another 60, now that's 120 manhours per month. At 100 mil per hour income of someone actively doing things in space, we're looking at 12 bil per month cost of managing bubbles, and that's just MANAGING them. Doesn't that sound ridiculous to you?
And what exactly "done" means? "done" as "we're done living here, pack up and go to hisec"?

Cade Windstalker wrote:
Your whole whine here is more or less specific to your situation and apparent desire to bubble gates to the nth degree. You can cover a gate with a couple T2 large bubbles and maybe one small per significant celestial if you feel the need for drag bubbles, but that's hardly required for ratting safety.

60 manhours cost was calculated for ONE large bubble on each side of each gate of average constellation, plus few specials.
Any more would blow the cost way into 10+ billion per month.
At least 5 bubbled gates in every direction is required if you want to siege a rorqual without a hand on batphone, otherwise it dies with 99.9% chance. For ratting on carriers, 1-2 gates down is minimal requirement, otherwise you're getting caught for free, which is the purpose of this change and why everyone with a hand on batphone whines that their free targets are too safe.

Cade Windstalker wrote:
Oh and bubble KMs aren't free intel, they're the cost of the bubble, and if no one's around nothing forces you to kill the bubble in the first place. If someone is around you're outed anyway so you may as well pop the bubbles if you want.

Bubble KMs are super free absolutely reliable intel. They are worth a PLEX to avoid.
Killmail is way more than enough reason to kill bubbles. Now that they're part of elite pvp e-peen contest, they will be killed in thousands.
Cade Windstalker
#236 - 2017-02-24 21:44:08 UTC
Orca Platypus wrote:
Fine. Most people still don't plex all their alts and don't pay subs from multiple cards (and have more alts than cards in most cases). it's a step towards broader representation and not null bloc minority of alt spammers.

Hisec, even depopulated to 1/3 of what it was in 2012 before CFCSM NERF HISEC campaign started, is still more popular than nullsec. The problem is, it's mostly populated with people who do not want to deal with alliance fatcats and thus don't care as much.


You clearly don't know much about Null, tons of people out there PLEX some or all of their accounts because it's fairly easy to do so, at least for those with more than 1-2 accounts. Also the vast majority of Eve players, including in Null, don't actually have that many alt accounts. It's mostly a few people who play Eve and nothing else and have for years with 12 accounts or whatever. The rest is just line members with one or two accounts at most.

Also a lot of those High Sec accounts are, in fact, alts of Null players, though not necessarily on different accounts.

This claim of some campaign to nerf High Sec is kinda laughable. No idea what changes provoked that, and I'm a player who spends a good chunk of his time in High Sec.

I think you got that a bit backwards though, a lot of solo HS players don't care about game politics and changes as much and therefore don't go out to Null. If you're angry about "null fat cats" you pretty much, by definition, care more than the average player.

Orca Platypus wrote:
Wrong. FW is also organized, can they put their candidate? No chance in hell.
The only "hisec candidate" ever to make was vegetable and goon pet Mike, who did literally anything NERF HISEC group told him, mostly being a vegetable and worst CSM rep ever.

Which would be one or two people BETTER than current full bloc minority CSM that doesn't represent 10% of eve.


Actually FWar has gotten a candidate onto the CSM a couple of times now at least, the biggest problems there are that FWar is tiny compared to other areas and it's inherently factionalized, so there are four different groups vying for influence and with different opinions on what would be good for FWar or the game as a whole.

Orca Platypus wrote:
Cannot be produced = cannot be used, hence inaccessible.
Unless you live on jita undock, which seems to be your case.



If you can't manage to either ship in bubbles to wherever you live or ship in enough materials to produce them then I really have to wonder what exactly you're protecting. A bunch of T1 Mining Barges and a Porpoise?

Seriously, if you're under some self-imposed restriction on not building anything you can't produce locally CCP is not required to design around your silly restrictions. This whole "I can't use T2 bubbles! Can't!" thing is what sounds ridiculous to me.

Orca Platypus wrote:
Killing would become abundant with killmails, both for safe kb padding and free intel.
Just placing them is 60 manhours per month cost, taking them down adds another 60, now that's 120 manhours per month. At 100 mil per hour income of someone actively doing things in space, we're looking at 12 bil per month cost of managing bubbles, and that's just MANAGING them. Doesn't that sound ridiculous to you?
And what exactly "done" means? "done" as "we're done living here, pack up and go to hisec"?

60 manhours cost was calculated for ONE large bubble on each side of each gate of average constellation, plus few specials.
Any more would blow the cost way into 10+ billion per month.
At least 5 bubbled gates in every direction is required if you want to siege a rorqual without a hand on batphone, otherwise it dies with 99.9% chance. For ratting on carriers, 1-2 gates down is minimal requirement, otherwise you're getting caught for free, which is the purpose of this change and why everyone with a hand on batphone whines that their free targets are too safe.

Bubble KMs are super free absolutely reliable intel. They are worth a PLEX to avoid.
Killmail is way more than enough reason to kill bubbles. Now that they're part of elite pvp e-peen contest, they will be killed in thousands.


Okay, this is just ridiculous for so many reasons.

First off, the side that gets the intel off of a bubble kill is the person placing it. Second you apparently haven't heard of nullified T3s, which your bubbles won't even slow down. One of the big blocks and afford to either run Nullified T3s to come catch you, or use them to come catch you and light a cyno on you which bypasses all your bubbles.

Also as I've already pointed out, T2 are not hard to come by unless you have no logistics chain at all, have no friendly neighbors to buy stuff off of, or are too space-poor to afford even T1 bubbles in any quantity, which is clearly not your problem.

I also kind of hope you realize that this sort of thing, dropping tons of bubbles all over a constellation, is exactly what started all of these complaints about no bubble timers in the first place.

I'm not even going to touch the ridiculous 60 hours claim, since it relies on the ridiculous idea that you somehow can't get T2 bubbles... which is just WTF.
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#237 - 2017-02-24 23:12:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Orca Platypus
Thanks for confirming you're goon forum alt agenda poster.

Claiming hisec is full of null alts makes sense now when all legit hisec players have quit eve after CFCSM NERF HISEC campaign succeeded.

CCP is not required to design anything for Jita undock dwellers like yourself either, but this change is not needed for MANY MANY MANY reasons one of them being unproducible by anything which isn't a bloc.

First off, the bubble intel impact is tremedous. If somebody is hitting the bubble, the corp that placed it already knows, regardless of it being placed by them or neutral alt. Killing it generates a killmail and those are already telling so much that you better pack up and leave due to your area painted deep red on free intel maps of all eve. No cost would be too great to evade it and living in null outside of bloc would be completely impossible (not like it's possible now, but there are ways, though with this much intel there'd be none). CFCSM of CCPL wins the game yet again, and yet another group of people is forced to choose between quitting eve for another 12 months or quitting eve permanently.

Nullified T3s are much less of a problem than you think, but since it's apparent you're dumber than wood, I'm not revealing anything.

No use of T2 bubbles have way more reasons than just nightmare to produce logistically. Even if you can produce them, that's tremendous cost of moon upkeep. They would give 10 times more intel than T1, would be much more desirable killmail for people thrilled about their e-peen, and you're still going to lose tons and tons of them, making cost pass 10 billions per month easily. That's just impossible.

With this change, not even "tons of bubbles", one bubble per gate imposes incredible, more than any other structure in game, cost of building and maintaining. No large poses, upgrades, or citadels, require 60 manhours in supporting them. No structures require attention every 2 days. Hell, even PI can be set up less annoying, and you don't even have to undock to do the most of it, but not just one constellations of bubbles with this proposed (and hopefully stuffed 10 meters deep in fozzie's intestines) murder of a change.

You want to get rid of unattended bubbles? Surely there is a better way than screwing everyone who isn't ratting with a hand on batphone.
Cade Windstalker
#238 - 2017-02-24 23:59:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
Orca Platypus wrote:
Thanks for confirming you're goon forum alt agenda poster.

Claiming hisec is full of null alts makes sense now when all legit hisec players have quit eve after CFCSM NERF HISEC campaign succeeded.


Lol

I'm not even a fan of the Goons, much less an alt of one. Or an alt period, for that matter, but that's beside the point.

Also no, lots of people in High Sec have been Null alts for ages now. If you took a big loss in Null or didn't want to attend a CTA or any of a dozen other things you could just log in on a different 'toon and do something in HS to make ISK.

Orca Platypus wrote:
CCP is not required to design anything for Jita undock dwellers like yourself either, but this change is not needed for MANY MANY MANY reasons one of them being unproducible by anything which isn't a bloc.

First off, the bubble intel impact is tremedous. If somebody is hitting the bubble, the corp that placed it already knows, regardless of it being placed by them or neutral alt. Killing it generates a killmail and those are already telling so much that you better pack up and leave due to your area painted deep red on free intel maps of all eve. No cost would be too great to evade it and living in null outside of bloc would be completely impossible (not like it's possible now, but there are ways, though with this much intel there'd be none). CFCSM of CCPL wins the game yet again, and yet another group of people is forced to choose between quitting eve for another 12 months or quitting eve permanently.


This is just... what.

Again, you can *buy them off the market*. Same for Tech or any other moon mineral. Just because you can't mine it locally doesn't mean it doesn't exist...

Also, since you're talking like the one placing the bubbles through all of this, why are you complaining about them generating kill mails?

Orca Platypus wrote:
Nullified T3s are much less of a problem than you think, but since it's apparent you're dumber than wood, I'm not revealing anything.

No use of T2 bubbles have way more reasons than just nightmare to produce logistically. Even if you can produce them, that's tremendous cost of moon upkeep. They would give 10 times more intel than T1, would be much more desirable killmail for people thrilled about their e-peen, and you're still going to lose tons and tons of them, making cost pass 10 billions per month easily. That's just impossible.


A Mobile Large Warp Disruptor 1 costs about 13m in Jita, a few mill less than half the cost of a T2 one or roughly half a T2 one's cost in materials. So the only way you're getting 'ten times' is if you think this is going to make everyone go around and do nothing but hunt bubbles all the time, which seems just a bit unlikely since bashing bubbles is boring and the first time you kill one the owners get a notification and can come shoot you while you're shooting the second.

Orca Platypus wrote:
With this change, not even "tons of bubbles", one bubble per gate imposes incredible, more than any other structure in game, cost of building and maintaining. No large poses, upgrades, or citadels, require 60 manhours in supporting them. No structures require attention every 2 days. Hell, even PI can be set up less annoying, and you don't even have to undock to do the most of it, but not just one constellations of bubbles with this proposed (and hopefully stuffed 10 meters deep in fozzie's intestines) murder of a change.

You want to get rid of unattended bubbles? Surely there is a better way than screwing everyone who isn't ratting with a hand on batphone.


Because... these aren't structures and they're not meant to be put up permanently and just left there?

Seriously, your entire objection to this seems to be based on the completely unrealistic idea that T2 bubbles are somehow out of reach of the majority of Eve. That's ridiculous.
Pete Kring
Honor Above All Else
#239 - 2017-02-25 00:50:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Pete Kring
here is my questions Why should all T1 bubbles be blanketed by a 2 day limit or T2 by a week limit? If CCP was to use the same basic setup it has for the Mobile depots which currently is it decays in 30 days why can't that limitation be moved over to the bubbles then someone would still have to manually pick them up every month or they would be gone. Everyone gets want they want care bears keep their bubbles without having something else to maintain every couple of days and PvP'ers don't have to deal with abandoned bubbles. I feel as though the bubbles should generate a KM the same way that MTU's and Mobile depots do so that people don't feel they are wasting their time when it comes to killing them to me this would clear up space more then anything else that CCP could do. Who wants to waste their time shooting bubbles for nothing.

I would also really like to know how CCP came to the decision to make the MTU and Mobile depot different decay durations when the items weight the same m3. If you think about it small guns don't weight the same as Capital guns. If the m3 scales with the size of the ship why shouldn't the duration something last scale with the m3 of the item?

I don't think it would be fair to the player base to take the lazy way out and blanket everything under three different time limits. That just says we don't care and just want changes to make people happy without putting much work or thought into in my opinion.

Using the 30 day duration of the Mobile depot here is what I would like to see:

Small T1 bubble duration 21 days and for T2 21 days
Medium T1 bubble duration 50 days and for T2 50 days
Large T1 bubble duration 175 days and for T2 175 days
Faction bubbles just add an additional 7 days onto them for each size just as faction POS use less fuel the bubbles will last longer.

These figures are based on the 30 day duration and m3 of the mobile depot using that as a reference to the m3 of the corresponding bubbles is how I arrived at the numbers. Why should there be a difference in days between the T1 and T2 bubbles as the bubbles weight the same amount. Another issue that arises upon digging deeper into this is the fact that t1 bubbles and T2 bubbles weight the same but have different material inputs so to change the T2 duration just change the weight of the bubbles to accommodate the extra material needed to make them.

The same thing can be done using the Mobile tractor units 2 day duration as well:

Small T1 bubble duration 1 day and for T2 1 day
Medium T1 bubble duration 4 days and for T2 4 days
Large T1 bubble duration 12 days and for T2 12 days
Faction bubbles just add an additional 7 days onto them for each size just as faction POS's use less fuel the bubbles will last longer.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#240 - 2017-02-25 02:24:06 UTC
Pete Kring wrote:
here is my questions Why should all T1 bubbles be blanketed by a 2 day limit or T2 by a week limit? If CCP was to use the same basic setup it has for the Mobile depots which currently is it decays in 30 days why can't that limitation be moved over to the bubbles then someone would still have to manually pick them up every month or they would be gone. Everyone gets want they want care bears keep their bubbles without having something else to maintain every couple of days and PvP'ers don't have to deal with abandoned bubbles. I feel as though the bubbles should generate a KM the same way that MTU's and Mobile depots do so that people don't feel they are wasting their time when it comes to killing them to me this would clear up space more then anything else that CCP could do. Who wants to waste their time shooting bubbles for nothing.

I would also really like to know how CCP came to the decision to make the MTU and Mobile depot different decay durations when the items weight the same m3. If you think about it small guns don't weight the same as Capital guns. If the m3 scales with the size of the ship why shouldn't the duration something last scale with the m3 of the item?

I don't think it would be fair to the player base to take the lazy way out and blanket everything under three different time limits. That just says we don't care and just want changes to make people happy without putting much work or thought into in my opinion.

Using the 30 day duration of the Mobile depot here is what I would like to see:

Small T1 bubble duration 21 days and for T2 21 days
Medium T1 bubble duration 50 days and for T2 50 days
Large T1 bubble duration 175 days and for T2 175 days
Faction bubbles just add an additional 7 days onto them for each size just as faction POS use less fuel the bubbles will last longer.

These figures are based on the 30 day duration and m3 of the mobile depot using that as a reference to the m3 of the corresponding bubbles is how I arrived at the numbers. Why should there be a difference in days between the T1 and T2 bubbles as the bubbles weight the same amount. Another issue that arises upon digging deeper into this is the fact that t1 bubbles and T2 bubbles weight the same but have different material inputs so to change the T2 duration just change the weight of the bubbles to accommodate the extra material needed to make them.

The same thing can be done using the Mobile tractor units 2 day duration as well:

Small T1 bubble duration 1 day and for T2 1 day
Medium T1 bubble duration 4 days and for T2 4 days
Large T1 bubble duration 12 days and for T2 12 days
Faction bubbles just add an additional 7 days onto them for each size just as faction POS's use less fuel the bubbles will last longer.
Just did a quick scan of recent posts and it seems; Your whole argument is about you spending time and isk to remain (somewhat) protected while doing whatever it is you claim to be doing.

Trust me, if some large group or blok wanted you gone from your space no amount of bubbles is going to stop them.
This is a good change aside from the decay duration being too long on all bubbles.

Decay should be based on the size and meta of the bubble.
Small T1 bubble - 6 hours
Small T2 bubble - 12 hours
Medium T1 bubble - 12 hours
Medium T2 bubble - 24 hours
Large T1 bubble - 48 hours
Large T2 bubble - 96 hours
*Faction bubbles - +100% of T2 equivalent
Decay would begin as soon as the person who anchored them has left the system or logged off.

Reasoning; Small and medium bubbles are generally used for strategic reasons (gate camps, drag or stop bubbles) and once the camp has broken up they are no longer needed.
Large bubbles are mainly used for player protection, if the group using them can't afford the time to re-anchor them within the time decay period they don't deserve the protection offered by them.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.