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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Low-end Industrial Core

Author
Vivianne Athonille
WHolely Unacceptable
#1 - 2017-02-19 20:22:53 UTC
TLDR -- Make a weaker version of the Industrial Core available for the Orca and Porpoise, allowing players to become familiar with the mechanics earlier in their careers and introducing more risk/reward options to HiSec and Low-Class WH mining.

From the standpoint of the Rorqual, I consider recent mining changes to be a great success. You have many strong reasons to be on-grid while providing boosts, not the least of which centers around the Excavator drones and the bonuses from the Industrial Core.

But problems still exists with the Porpoise and the Orca. They aren't very effective in belt other than boosting, and as numerous other threads have pointed out their boosting range seems just a little shorter than optimal for their environments. Additionally, it's very difficult to use them in their hauling role while also maintaining boosts for the fleet.

Interestingly, the Rorqual would suffer from these same issues if not for the Industrial Core. The various bonuses it provides while active plug all of these holes. It is balanced by turning the Rorqual into a sitting duck for the fixed 5 minute duration.

My suggestion is to create a Basic Industrial Core for use only by the Porpoise and Orca (perhaps rename the current modules to Capital Industrial Core?) which would provide similar but reduced bonuses in exchange for the same penalties applied to the Rorqual (increased mass and no mobility). To simplify things, this IC would exist only as a T1 module and be tied to existing skills (either Industrial Reconfiguration or Industrial Command Ships as referenced below).

The following is a list of most attributes of the current T1 Industrial Core and possible values for the new Basic model.

  • Remote Shield Booster Duration and Capacitor Use Bonus: -20% to -50% (T1: -75%)
  • Drone Damage and Hitpoint Bonus: 20% (T1: 80%)
  • Drone Maximum Velocity Bonus: 25% (T1: 25%)
  • Drone Ore Mining Yield Bonus: 100% (T1: 400%)
  • Drone Ice Harvesting Speed Bonus: -25% (T1: -75%)
  • Mining Foreman Burst Strength Bonus: 10% (T1: 25%)
  • Command and Mining Foreman Burst Range Bonus: 50% (T1: 150%)
  • Remote Shield Booster Range Bonus: 20% to 50% (T1: 100%)
  • Shield Booster Duration Bonus: -20% to -25% (T1: -60%)
  • Sensor Dampener Resistance Bonus: -75% (T1: -75%)
  • Remote Assistance Impedance Bonus: -80% (T1: -80%)
  • Scan Resolution Bonus: 50% (T1: 100%)
  • Remote Repair Impedance Bonus: -100% (T1: 100%)
  • Heavy Water Consumption: 250 units (500 units if tied to Industrial Reconfiguration) (T1: 1000 units)
  • Shield Booster Amount Bonus: 20% to 50% (T1: 120%)
  • Allows Compression


A module such as this would immediately introduce a risk/reward solution to several complaints regarding the Orca and Porpoise. Want more boost range? Want more output from your mining drones? Want a bump to your remote rep range? Want to compress in HiSec or Low-Class WH space (a major concern for some mining daytrippers when POS placement ends)? Activate this module and lock yourself down for 5 minutes.

Yes, this would require the addition of a Fuel Bay to the Orca and Porpoise for the Heavy Water. But do not add a high slot to accommodate this module. Making hard decisions on modules should be part of the risk/rewards for this option, and should be especially difficult on the Porpoise.
Survik Gaterau
0rizen Irregulars
Sev3rance
#2 - 2017-02-19 20:49:14 UTC
I can agree with Orca, but dont boost Porpoise. Its 70M ship after all.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#3 - 2017-02-20 01:19:51 UTC
only if you have to use it to get the same benefits you do now. these ships in no way need a buff
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
#4 - 2017-02-20 16:03:04 UTC
I can agree with putting a basic version of the core on an Orca.

1.) It should not change any stats, and have the penalties for using it(ie cant move while turned on)
2.) The only thing it allows the Orca to do is compress rocks. (we are talking a basic version here)
3.) Maybe cost half the fuel consumption the Rorqual version does.

And then give Citadel owners the ability to Tax Compression services not just refining.

The Porpoise should just be left alone.


You know, could just add the ability of using the Bastion module for this and then there would be no need for fuel.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#5 - 2017-02-20 17:58:28 UTC
Finally give citadels the power to tax compression.

Add a mod that let's the miners compress anyway.

Nothing changes for citadel owners tedium increased for miners


Yep solid plan
Cade Windstalker
#6 - 2017-02-20 18:17:13 UTC
The whole point of the Orca and Porpoise is to be dedicated boosting ships, not extremely strong miners. The reason they have mining capacity at all is to make them viable for use in smaller fleet sizes.

The argument about adding a core even to the Orca on the basis of Risk vs Reward completely falls apart on even cursory inspection because there is basically no risk to deploying a system like that in High Sec. The increased mass is a benefit since it makes you resistant to bumping and the lack of mobility isn't a major concern under 99% of circumstances in High Sec, especially if it comes with any kind of increase in tank.

The Orca and Porpoise are boosting ships, not mining ships. They are not supposed to mine more than Barges or Exhumers. The Rorqual mines as much as it does because it's the Capital Ship culmination of both the boosting and mining lines, and it has *significant* restrictions in trade for that ability to siege up and mine as much as a small fleet of Exhumers.

There's also zero reason to give the Orca or Porpoise the ability to compress ore. You can already run compression jobs in Citadels if you want to compress your ore.
Vivianne Athonille
WHolely Unacceptable
#7 - 2017-02-24 04:33:16 UTC
Wondering if my timing might be impeccable given the recently announced Rorqual and mining drone changes...
Cade Windstalker
#8 - 2017-02-24 04:53:29 UTC
Vivianne Athonille wrote:
Wondering if my timing might be impeccable given the recently announced Rorqual and mining drone changes...



Impeccably bad, maybe. Why you think nerfing the Rorqual might mean they'd put a smaller mining core on the Orca I have no idea...
KingofMining -YourMaster
Brand Newbros
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#9 - 2017-02-24 14:09:44 UTC
Personally, using an orca is already quite nice, even thought it is usually done solo, but at least the feature of ore compression would be amazing for fleet boosting with quite a few more people. A solo orca literally would take 3-4hours of sitting there in space to fill up the ore bay, so the compression/industry core isn't all the useful to the purpose of using it for mining. It's meant to be a good booster, not a takeover for the actual mining ships, even thought it is quite nice to solo mine while people like myself do not have the time to put my whole attention into the game. The core shouldn't be used exactly like the rorquel to boost it's drones, but it would be a nice addition to have ore compress and maybe a decent boost to minign drones, but nothing insane.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#10 - 2017-02-24 14:14:43 UTC
KingofMining -YourMaster wrote:
Personally, using an orca is already quite nice, even thought it is usually done solo, but at least the feature of ore compression would be amazing for fleet boosting with quite a few more people. A solo orca literally would take 3-4hours of sitting there in space to fill up the ore bay, so the compression/industry core isn't all the useful to the purpose of using it for mining. It's meant to be a good booster, not a takeover for the actual mining ships, even thought it is quite nice to solo mine while people like myself do not have the time to put my whole attention into the game. The core shouldn't be used exactly like the rorquel to boost it's drones, but it would be a nice addition to have ore compress and maybe a decent boost to minign drones, but nothing insane.


The fact that this would let you add an entire hulk to the mining fleet (no longer needing the hauler) would drastically increase the effective income boost of this ship. It however does not need this
Vivianne Athonille
WHolely Unacceptable
#11 - 2017-02-24 16:07:44 UTC
So remove or even further reduce the suggested mining yield bonus. But the small drone bonuses for movement and hit points, those are basic trade offs for being immobile. Compression and boost range, those would be the key benefits.
Cade Windstalker
#12 - 2017-02-24 16:27:48 UTC
Vivianne Athonille wrote:
So remove or even further reduce the suggested mining yield bonus. But the small drone bonuses for movement and hit points, those are basic trade offs for being immobile. Compression and boost range, those would be the key benefits.


*any* mining yield bonus on a "smaller Orca core" isn't justified. The whole point of the Core on the Rorqual is that you engage in a risky maneuver (activating the Core) in exchange for a large reward (hoovering entire asteroids in a single ship in 10 minutes). With an Orca in High Sec though there is no such trade off. Being able to anchor yourself down and massively increase your mass is nothing but a benefit, same goes for increasing tank, mining yield, or anything else. There's no downside to something like this because you're already just sitting in the belt and someone can walk right up to you and there's little to no indication of a problem until they start shooting. Even if you do know there's something wrong then with something like this you could just refit for max tank and RR on a pair of Orcas and laugh as a gang tries to blow up your self-repping bricks.
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
#13 - 2017-02-25 04:00:04 UTC
Lets face it, sooner or later the POS go away and with them the ore compression arrays.
Without ability to tax compression, im sure the ones providing such service now a great many of them will be going private and then those without access will have no compression ability.

This is about the only reason i see for allowing a core on the Orca, and for compression only, no stat bonus from using it. So in the future the little guy, newer group, small scout mining group can get their rocks and get out of dodge.

@ Cade: the more you talk about indy/mining stuff the more you show the lack of knowledge in it. In highsec if an orca is not brick tanked already then your flying it wrong anyway. please FFS STFU already.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#14 - 2017-02-25 06:13:30 UTC
Max Deveron wrote:
Lets face it, sooner or later the POS go away and with them the ore compression arrays.
Without ability to tax compression, im sure the ones providing such service now a great many of them will be going private and then those without access will have no compression ability.

This is about the only reason i see for allowing a core on the Orca, and for compression only, no stat bonus from using it. So in the future the little guy, newer group, small scout mining group can get their rocks and get out of dodge.

@ Cade: the more you talk about indy/mining stuff the more you show the lack of knowledge in it. In highsec if an orca is not brick tanked already then your flying it wrong anyway. please FFS STFU already.



why? you didn't used to be able to compress ore in HS at all
Rob Zahm
ChemiKals
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2017-02-26 14:00:42 UTC
Would be cool if the orca got to transform animation like the rorqual has