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Starlifter Tech I and Starlifter Vanguard Tech II Transport Ship

Author
Ronnie Rose
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2017-02-14 04:02:11 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
why not just plainly explain your idea?


One of the intriguing things about EVE is the back story on its many aspects. So I'm developing a back story on this ship that will leave it as an open question on whether EVE will ever see this ship concept or not.

I hope you find my story clever.

I will update the story everyday (unless something real world comes up) and I promise it won't take more than a week to write it out. It's in my head and I just have to express it.

We're not here to change the game, we're here to change YOUR game

Wolfgang Jannesen
Czerka.
What Could Possibly Go Wr0ng
#22 - 2017-02-14 04:33:21 UTC
I promise you a short story isn't going to make this ship a reality, but I'm interested in what you want this thing to accomplish in gameplay terms.
Ronnie Rose
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2017-02-15 01:35:41 UTC
Wolfgang Jannesen wrote:
I promise you a short story isn't going to make this ship a reality, but I'm interested in what you want this thing to accomplish in gameplay terms.


I updated my story.

Please, humor me Big smile

We're not here to change the game, we're here to change YOUR game

Ronnie Rose
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2017-02-15 01:36:32 UTC
Ronnie Rose wrote:
Wolfgang Jannesen wrote:
I promise you a short story isn't going to make this ship a reality, but I'm interested in what you want this thing to accomplish in gameplay terms.


I updated my story. All in due time.

Please, humor me Big smile

We're not here to change the game, we're here to change YOUR game

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2017-02-15 07:17:09 UTC
Ronnie Rose wrote:


Please, humor me Big smile



No.
Wolfgang Jannesen
Czerka.
What Could Possibly Go Wr0ng
#26 - 2017-02-15 14:41:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Wolfgang Jannesen
Ronnie Rose wrote:
Wolfgang Jannesen wrote:
I promise you a short story isn't going to make this ship a reality, but I'm interested in what you want this thing to accomplish in gameplay terms.


I updated my story.

Please, humor me Big smile


Your story tells me absolutely nothing about the ship. Are you prepared to just lay out for us your idea or can I ignore this thread? I'm no longer interested in having to decipher your suggestions
Wolfgang Jannesen
Czerka.
What Could Possibly Go Wr0ng
#27 - 2017-02-15 15:18:40 UTC
This is becoming frustrating. I begrudgingly reread your story a couple times, what does this ship do? Weaponize CONCORD? Your story was a good fit in My Eve but right here it's all about gameplay and mechanics.
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2017-02-15 15:35:34 UTC
Ronnie Rose wrote:
Wolfgang Jannesen wrote:
I promise you a short story isn't going to make this ship a reality, but I'm interested in what you want this thing to accomplish in gameplay terms.


I updated my story.

Please, humor me Big smile


I don't give a damn about your story. Lay down your idea so it can be judged based on it's own merit.
Commander IceQ
Wet Soap Guard
#29 - 2017-02-15 16:52:12 UTC
Hi.

I am not going to read a story. I came here hoping to see an interesting ship proposal, and I have seen nothing in 2 pages. I won't be surprised if this gets locked for the thread gets locked for redundancy, as it contains no features nor ideas.

I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it.

Hirisho Presolana
Evian Industries
Evictus.
#30 - 2017-02-15 18:33:41 UTC
Ronnie Rose wrote:
Hi,

I would rather send it directly to CCP rather than post it the forum. I wrote a word document about this ship too. It's not a combat ship that you could fight other players with, but a transport ship that could change a good amount of things that would make EVE even much more interesting. And even though you could not fight with this ship, it would have a military support role that could tip the scale in battle.




me too have an idea of how PI could be an entirely new strategy game interacting with tranquillity as dust should've done, while creating new careers as a planet manager, with new ship categories (orbital striker, colony command ship, troop dropships)..

but, hey, i'm not even taking in consideration wasting my time, writing a word document about it :P
Ronnie Rose
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2017-02-16 04:36:41 UTC
Wolfgang Jannesen wrote:
This is becoming frustrating. I begrudgingly reread your story a couple times, what does this ship do? Weaponize CONCORD? Your story was a good fit in My Eve but right here it's all about gameplay and mechanics.


Okay.

SOE and the ORE Corporation has collaborated on a ship concept that's been sitting on ORE's drafting table for years. ORE believe it would revolutionize Industrial transport and shipping but they would not commit the design to production because it was too much of a risk to pilots being that ORE's, like other industrial ship are bulky and slow.

That was until SOE made an engineering breakthrough with the use of a new hull material technology called Quantum Spatial Phasing (QSP). The technical details about how QSP works will be explained in my story. But, for now it was the technology that ORE was looking for to make their ship concept a reality.

The new class of ships SOE and ORE are designing is called Starlifters, and what the hull design allows the capuleer to do is carry other capsuleer pods in its cargo hold. In other words the Starlifter is a transport ship for other capuleers and their packaged ships. It's a concept that doesn't exist with any other ship in EVE.

The reason why ORE was reluctant to produce a transport ship like this was because they knew a passenger transport ship would be just as vulnerable as any other indy ship, and the idea of a ship kill transporting other pilots was not very marketable. But QSP will change that.

There are two version of the Starlifter space craft, a regular Tech I version and a Tech II military version called the Vanguard.

Now, QSP also has some very special benefits unique to the Starlifter because of its effects on warp field mechanics (there are also draw backs too, I but I can explain those later). Here are a few.

1. A pilot can drop out of warp at any time before they arrive at their destination.
2. Its hull material makes the ship extremely fast and agile for an industrial ship.
3. The ship has an emergency warp function that allows the pilot to warp off in the direction it is facing almost immediately.
4. You cannot scan this ship down with combat probes because of its QSP technology.
5. The tech one version is modestly effected by warp interdiction sphere's while the Vangard is immune.

But most important to ORE is that QSP significantly delays Ladar, Magetometric, Gravemetric and Radar targeting sensors when locking onto a Starlifter. We're talking anywhere from an 8 to 14 seconds target lock delay on a Starlifter depending on the Starlifter's pilot skills.

What this all means is a ship concept that allow's it's pilot to be extremely evasive to targeting, which means a better chance to survive gate camps, and give a pilot a chance to explore the farthest reaches of low or null sec space.

Here's where it gets interesting. The military version, the Vanguard is able to perform in-flight warp drops of its payload. Basically, the Starlifter is the EVE equivalent of the very real and very capable C-17 Globemaster III (Google it).

Now here are some of it's drawbacks.

1. There are no high slots on the Starlifter because the higher power requirements disrupts the QSP technology.
2. Ship modules, fits or modifications that would affect it's signature or cargo capacity will also adversely affect its QSP technology, so no microwarp drives or cargo expanders, etc.

and finally, SOE and ORE do not want to enable the criminal enterprise that would interfere with their commercial interests, so they would work with CONCORD to restrict pilots with a security standing of -5 or lower from flying the ship in high or low sec (criminal pilots can still fly a Starlifter in null or worm hole space). Further more, SOE and ORE would offer a Starlifter pilot's licenses through their LP store, which are required for flying Starlifters in high and low sec space (some restrictions apply, but I can explain that later).

And finally, here are some other interesting abilities the Starlifter offers.

1. The Starlifter would offer a whole new way for pilots to earn ISK by serving as "airline" pilots basically.

2. Passengers on board do not appear in the local chat channel or in the ship overview. This opens up for some interesting clandestine travel as a service though New Eden.

3. The in flight Warp drop opens up a whole new possibility in military logistics support and battlefront staging for war campaigns

That's pretty much, it in a nut shell. Wrote about ten pages of description, to include load mechanics, doctrine uses, visual effects descriptions, even the new type of scams, challenges for better or worse that the Starlifter would bring to EVE.

I have more but I'll just stop for now.


We're not here to change the game, we're here to change YOUR game

Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
#32 - 2017-02-16 04:55:38 UTC
pods in cargo holds, wow, i've read/heard stories about this, this should be interesting.....

Just Add Water

Ronnie Rose
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2017-02-16 05:01:41 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:
pods in cargo holds, wow, i've read/heard stories about this, this should be interesting.....


Thank you Big smile

But not just pods in the cargo hold, their packaged ships as well.

Remember the Starlifter would be EVE's equivalent of the C-17 Globmaster, basically anything the C-17 does the Starlifter can do.

It's a force mulitplier in battlefield logistics and tactical support. The Vanguard would be very much the same.


We're not here to change the game, we're here to change YOUR game

Zimmer Jones
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2017-02-16 06:35:15 UTC
Well I can certainly tell you that your idea was posted in the right place. However there are a few problems and some constructive searching in the forums will let you know what they are. I'll put a link or two here, but entering "carry pods" in the search bar might have saved you quite a lot of work.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6512615#post6512615

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4682418#post4682418

and my favorite that did not pop up in that search but under "pod transport"

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6432626#post6432626

Use the force without consent and the court wont acquit you even if you are a card carryin', robe wearin' Jedi.

Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2017-02-16 13:59:33 UTC
So you want a bowhead with :

can also carry pods/other pilots
can stop it's warp in space without the need of pre-setup safe spot \
faster and more agile
emergency warp with no align requirement
literally unscannable
only modestly affected by bubbles (WTF does that mean?) while the T2 model just bypass them
crazy low signature so it's can't be locked on fast (which also mean applying damage to such ship if it's also fast and agile will be borderline impossible)
can drop cargo or maybe ships while in warp
and somehow, for **** and giggles, has a limit on sec status

Is this really what you are proposing?

Now I get why you didn't want to just lay it out there. I'd be ashamed to propose such broken ship.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#36 - 2017-02-16 19:51:23 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
So you want a bowhead with :

can also carry pods/other pilots
can stop it's warp in space without the need of pre-setup safe spot \
faster and more agile
emergency warp with no align requirement
literally unscannable
only modestly affected by bubbles (WTF does that mean?) while the T2 model just bypass them
crazy low signature so it's can't be locked on fast (which also mean applying damage to such ship if it's also fast and agile will be borderline impossible)
can drop cargo or maybe ships while in warp
and somehow, for **** and giggles, has a limit on sec status

Is this really what you are proposing?

Now I get why you didn't want to just lay it out there. I'd be ashamed to propose such broken ship.


It's a shame they didn't ask for a pony to go with their literally unkillable massive haulers, isn't it.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#37 - 2017-02-16 21:21:50 UTC
Ronnie Rose wrote:
I've read your comments and I appreciate the sound replies. I've decided to take a creative approach and weave my idea into a story. I just posted the first part of several. I hope you all like it.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=511069&find=unread

cheers!Big smile


As a suggestion for the future, nothing is preventing you from both explaining your ideas and showing off your stories. At the same time.

Suggesting something in form of a short story is a novel concept though, I'll give you that. Communication theory is not your thing, I guess.
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2017-02-16 21:41:40 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
So you want a bowhead with :

can also carry pods/other pilots
can stop it's warp in space without the need of pre-setup safe spot \
faster and more agile
emergency warp with no align requirement
literally unscannable
only modestly affected by bubbles (WTF does that mean?) while the T2 model just bypass them
crazy low signature so it's can't be locked on fast (which also mean applying damage to such ship if it's also fast and agile will be borderline impossible)
can drop cargo or maybe ships while in warp
and somehow, for **** and giggles, has a limit on sec status

Is this really what you are proposing?

Now I get why you didn't want to just lay it out there. I'd be ashamed to propose such broken ship.


It's a shame they didn't ask for a pony to go with their literally unkillable massive haulers, isn't it.


Looking at it, it should of been 2 ponies.
Ronnie Rose
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2017-02-17 03:20:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Ronnie Rose
Thank you for the responses, anyway. I think the Starlifter concept would be a game changer in many ways.

For one it would not be a bowhead (that's one ugly ship). I would propose it's cargo is limited to 25,000 m3. That's four pods (1000 m3), four packaged destroyers (5000 m3) and a 1000 m3 to spare for fittings. So a 25,000 m3 is waaaaaay under a Bowhead, you could not compare it to that.

Secondly, some of you think this ship would be broken. I argue that it would not be broken in EVE. For one you would not beable to use any high slot items that would include weapons, salvagers, cloaks, probe launchers, cyno or jump portal devices and other things. So the ship is very limited to do one thing and that is transport.

I think, however some of you are bothered by the idea that this ship being difficult to target (not impossible but difficult) would mean in could allow players access to null spaces jealously guarded by some alliances (cough, cough), so yeah I could see why some folks wanting to protect their special interests by being dismissive about this concept. Further more it just eats at those who just want to camp at gates and keep people out of space, and being powerless to stop them I guess.

But the whole point of this ship is to do just that and that is to get players out to low and to null and to wormhole space.

And as for this concept being unoriginal because there has been other pods transport ships proposed, I think those ideas were proposed to solve other minor problem, but I see as a problem is a lack of player participation in all parts of EVE space as a liability to this game, and that will put it back where it was before CCP introduced Alpha Clones, which is stagnant growth, the bane to any profit model of a game.

Believe me, this idea of the Starlifter is really for the benefit of EVE and its players, not some fancy wish list from a player wanting a pink pony. I put a lot of thought in this idea because I love EVE, but I see it's short comings.

We're not here to change the game, we're here to change YOUR game

Cade Windstalker
#40 - 2017-02-17 03:56:03 UTC
Couple of points real quick.

First off, it's impossible in the Eve code right now for a ship to carry other players. Something like this has been discussed literally longer than I've been in Eve, and it's still not possible in Code. We're getting there, but not yet.

Second, any hold that can carry a pod (an assembled ship) can not also carry packaged ships. Ship Hangars are packaged only and quite intentionally so.

Third, ship facing is entirely an artifact of travel direction. When you jump through a gate your ship has no "facing" it's entirely a client-side effect. Your Align Time to warp is from this position and is direction independent. If you can insta-warp you can insta-warp, facing has nothing to do with it.

There is no ship in the game that is immune to probes, and for good reason. If you want to be scan-proof then fit a cloak.

Bubbles are all or nothing, there is no "modestly affected". Either your warp is disrupted by them or it isn't.