Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Before I start, I realize that probably none of these ideas will ever be implemented. I also realize that blops rebalancing, which was promised sometime around 2010, still hasn't happened. Despite all this, the Redeemer is still my favorite ship (I've been flying one since 2011), but I feel that it isn't remotely optimized for its role. Here is some theory crafting which I feel would make them more appetizing ships to fly.

A couple design principles before we begin:
1. The number of cloaky/drone-heavy ships is too damn high. Drones are such a mess to handle when cloaking is involved. It's probably a balancing factor, to be honest, but 3/4 blops have 33% or more of their dps coming from drones. You also have SOE ships and amarr and gallente recons which are all drone heavy. I think that flavor should be available, certainly, but not quite so dominant.

2. In my opinion, the purpose of blops should be to drop in, blap, and gtfo. At present, they perform the "gtfo" part well, but are mediocre at bast at the "blap" part.

3. For a cloaky ship, blops are very easy to find. Mostly because they warp slow and pvpers who see one on d-scan call in the cavalry to try to bring it down. A good player won't get caught, certainly, but it's still really annoying and time consuming to be interrupted in the middle of your op. Furthermore, you're limited to sending a recon ahead to tackle. The blops has to wait until the target is pinned down before it can join the fight, or the target might see you coming and escape.

4. Generally, I'm not a fan of ships pigeonholed into an exclusive and specific pvp role by the meta. In my view, all ships should have the flexibility to do multiple jobs in both pve and pvp depending on how you fit them. The vast majority of ships in eve follow this principle - even recons. Blops don't really.

5. Many blops bonuses are hold-overs from mechanics that have long since been improved upon.


New stuff in bold:
Redeemer - Abaddon hull - Viziam skin (lets be honest though, everyone really wants a Khanid skin)

Amarr battleship bonus per skill level:
10% reduction in large energy turret activation cost
10% bonus to scan resolution

Blackops bonus per skill level:
10% bonus to large energy turret damage (still six turrets -> 9 effective turrets compared to the abaddon's 10)
10% reduction in covert jump portal generator fuel consumption

Role Bonuses:
Can fit covert cynos and covert jump portal generators
No penalty to max velocity when using cloaking devices
No targeting delay after uncloaking, cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds
Cannot be detected by directional scanners.
50% reduction in effective distance traveled for jump fatigue

Other changes:
Drone bay reduced to 50/75, bandwidth to 50.
Base targeting ranged increased to 85 km.
Powergrid and CPU buffed slightly.

With this setup, the Redeemer would be used in a fire support role. Target dps max would be 950 with perfect skills, somewhat limited by the last 10% behind the Black Ops lvl 5 training time. The total dps isn't any different from the redeemer at present, its just concentrated into the guns and can be projected a little better. I realize the d-scan bonus is controversial, but I think it would address the ship's flaws without being overpowered. It seems to be working well with recons. Keep in mind the ship can still be probed down.

This is just for fun, please don't flame. Otherwise, insight and opinions welcome. Really I just hope CCP gets around the balance pass they've been promising on blops since forever.

Dscan immunity and covops cloak is way OP in my view.

Black Ops are designed to move around via cyno jumps, so the current cloak speed bonus helps them in this respect. They can cyno in, fight and then cloak and move at ok speed for their size, in order to avoid being found.

They aren't really designed to warp and use gates so much. Nothing stops them doing so, but it is a weakness for them compared to using a cyno.

The combination of dscan immunity and covops would totally reverse that. It would be easier and safer for them to use gates and the dscan immunity would also mean that a target would have no way to detect what came through the gate without having an alt on grid to physically see in just a second or two. At least with current combat recons, the lack of covops cloak gives someone a chance to see them as they align to warp and also to see them as they come on grid.

Covops cloak without dscan immunity gives a chance with dscan to see what has come into system.

The combination of both is too much, especially I think in jspace, where blops aren't really a major factor at the moment. This change would make them extremely powerful in wormholes, even though there are no cynos at all. That's bad in my view.

blops are fine and extremely well balanced. They are not meant to be solo pwn ships they are meant to be a part of a fleet this is why they are able to bridge ships like recons and bombers .


a major rebalance hasn't happened because a major rebalance isn't needed though we have had several smaller ones since 2010

they do not need a cov ops cloak this would be beyond broken

while d-scan immune would not be as broken it is still not something they need and has the potential to be abused in areas like wormhole

drones are litterally fine you just have to get used to loosing them and understand how to use them to avoid d-cloaking yourself (by the time you are in one of these you should have drone mechanics down)



as to your original changes to the redeemer you just nerfed it hard and reading it im not sure how often you fly them or even understand Black Ops


1 no penalty to cloak velocity rather than the 125% reduction that is used to get your blops into warp faster than some cruisers and to avoid getting d-cloaked to easily

2 jump fuel reduction <- this literally means they would have to increase the fuel needed and at blops V you would have the standard fuel cost

3 putting its drone damage into its guns. no point brining this in on any fight with so much as a moderately sped up cruiser.(your removal of tracking speed also screws you)

4 scan res rather than tracking is such a poor idea considering (see above) they already have the best out of any battleship class and takes away from the point of choosing to go with more expensive cloaks or no cloak at all.

5. 50% fatigue rather than 75%(idk why you even added this nerf)


the pg/cpu limitation on these are there to balance them out. the choices between tank/utility/dps are much harder even before you consider if you want a bridge or not.





you literally took a powerful fleet ship and made it **** do to your lack of understanding when it comes to the Black Ops class


EDIT:

Lugh you are literally banned from posting after you wake up because you literally used literally way to much

no the cloak vel is not a hold over from before cov cloaking the vel bonus is there to aid in avoiding de-cloak and entering warp and is one of the most powerful bonuses on the blops


i'm so sorry you are **** at drones

scan res is fine particularly if you are in a fleet

considering the hit and run gameplay you want as much DPS as possible this is why tracking is important not to mention the redeemer is the brawleist of the blops and there are better choices if for whatever reason you want to snipe

the fuel consumption has 0 need to be lowered and as such it would be at the current level at V if such a reduction was added.



now before we go any further lets think, do any blops need a re-balance?

do they fill a niche that no other ship in the game fills?

is there clearly a go to choice out of the blops?

are they counter able?

What it seems is you want to be able to cyno in a redeemer at range insta lock and blap a target freely all while not having to make any fitting sacrifices to do it do I have that right?

This really seems to be about YOU wanting it too do something rather than balancing it

I kinda want to see him lost a redeemer fitted with 4 scripted Cormack's SEBO to achieve 1.1 second lock time on a battleship but then again, It would not be funny enough to warrant shitting all over Blops balance just for this...

Can people please stop spreading this myth?

At level 4 (the level of most non dedicated blops pilots) you move 25% faster with a t2 cloak (bare minimum for a blops unless you're soft in the head) you go 38% with a caldari or dread cloak. Iirc even at level 3 you move faster cloaked than un cloaked but just slightly



EDIT:

that came out more hostile then intended my frustration is with the over population of this claim not with you

what are you talking about?

what battlecruiser? and what does this have to do with blops?



also caldari have the worst scan res out of all the races i think you are confusing it with sensors

BLOBS don´t need anything new ...and we don´t need more cloacky hotdrop ships anyway! So NO need for a change!

Um...No?

You need like 6-7 bombers to absolutely level most blopsable targets quickly. They are extremely practical and efficient. I would never consider using blops for most of the work I do - they are just plain bad. They lock slow, warp slow, do not do much damage, bad fuel efficiency, align slow....they are just plain bad overall. Groups that use more don't really need that much fire-power, rather, its laudable they want to have so many participate.

Blops become practical when you can field like 50 of them with logi legions - then they are the best choice as you have the numbers and scale to actually take more of a fight and less than a gank. They have a niche use of people that like to style on solo pvpers or very small gangs, but this is more a style thing and less a practical thing.