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*Newbie question* Possible to produce everything from scratch?

Author
Mal-Ak Lah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2017-02-08 23:08:41 UTC
So I was simple wondering one simple thing, Ive been going into industry these days and I though to myself, why not dig everything up from the planets and get all the resources myself for manufacturing a certain BP I have.
That would give me just profits minus taxes and time.
Im here now because I think its not that easy to do this. What are the bumps or hindrances that would make this hard to achive?
Dark Lord Trump
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2017-02-09 00:25:33 UTC
It's technically possible. Kudos to you for realizing your time has a cost. The answer is that stuff like mining (unless you've got a Rorqual or two) isn't that profitable. You generally get a better ROI on your time buying the materials from someone else. Another case might be that what you're trying to get is difficult to produce yourself, such as large quantities of high-tier PI materials or moon minerals.

Decide how much your time is worth in ISK/hour. Look at each step of the production process and cut anything that pays out less than that threshold. Pay someone else who values their time less to do it.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2017-02-09 07:58:00 UTC
Possible, yes.

For T1 stuff, easy. Mine, refine, produce. That said, you'd need to mine in nullsec for some of the minerals.
For T2 stuff, nearly impossible. You'd need minerals, planetary items and moon mats. The moon mats would come from multiple different moons, be reacted together in a number of different reactions before you could make the T2 components.

The higher-end moons are guarded by the alliances that own them, because they make a lot of ISK. To mine everything and react everything you'd probably need 20 or 30 (of maybe even more) POS towers running reaction and/or mining arrays scattered across lowsec and nullsec.

For T3, you need gases mined from WH space and salvage and drops from sleepers in WH space, plus reaction towers to react the gases into useful forms.

The other limitation is time. When I've got all my lines running at full speed, I can easily use a quantity of minerals that would have taken me weeks to mine in a couple of hours.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#4 - 2017-02-09 09:33:16 UTC
There are a lot of links in the value chain for most items. Participate in the ones you enjoy and purchase the stuff you don't have time or interest in harvesting or making yourself.

As a T2 manufacturer, I buy minerals and advanced moon material. I build my T1 and advanced components and harvest my PI. This level of vertical integration works for me, others do things differently.

It's important to remember that Eve is a game - success should be measured in enjoyment, not ISK. If you're having fun, you're doing it right!
Taurean Eltanin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2017-02-09 10:44:29 UTC
Another consideration is your character skills. There are a number of skills that affect your mining efficiency, for example. Until you have max skills, you will never be able to mine as efficiently as someone who does. So do you train up your mining skills (at the cost of neglecting something else) or simply buy product from someone who already has?

In the short term, at least, Eve rewards specialization. Eventually you will be able to have 'perfect' skills in a variety of areas. Until then, it is more efficient to focus on a couple of areas and rely on other people for the rest.

If you like reading about low sec piracy or wormhole pvp, you might enjoy my blog.

Mal-Ak Lah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2017-02-09 11:07:35 UTC
I appreciate all the answers and I guess everyone is talking about mining asteroids for resources.
What about PI then? What if a BP needs lets say resources that is available from a planets (oxygen, nanites etc.)
I also thought about maybe applying the "mine-yourself" idea to PI and even though T1 BP might be possible, it seems a very low ISK/Hour or am I wrong? I like arranging the Command centers and mines and launchpads etc. Its just the transport thats a hassle I guess?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#7 - 2017-02-09 11:17:20 UTC
Mal-Ak Lah wrote:
So I was simple wondering one simple thing, Ive been going into industry these days and I though to myself, why not dig everything up from the planets and get all the resources myself for manufacturing a certain BP I have.
That would give me just profits minus taxes and time.
Im here now because I think its not that easy to do this. What are the bumps or hindrances that would make this hard to achive?


For stuff like ratting ammo, cap boosters, ore/pi haulers and other consumables, it's certainly a sensible idea to pick up some bpos, research them up a bit and make your own stuff. Past that point, you need to make a decision: are you going to be a full on specialized iindustrial player or are you going to maximise self sufficiency for role-playing reasons?

If you're going the rp route that's fine as long as you're honest with yourself that this really is hardmode EVE and you'll be locking yourself out of a lot of options for a very long time. It's worth noting that you can partially circumvent the extreme complexities of the T2 supply chain by substituting faction ships and modules. Eg rather than building yourself a Cheetah, you could instead do some sisters of EVE missions and get yourself an Astero to do much the same job. However, there's no faction substitute for a Sabre..

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Taurean Eltanin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2017-02-09 11:25:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Taurean Eltanin
Mal-Ak Lah wrote:
I appreciate all the answers and I guess everyone is talking about mining asteroids for resources.
What about PI then? What if a BP needs lets say resources that is available from a planets (oxygen, nanites etc.)
I also thought about maybe applying the "mine-yourself" idea to PI and even though T1 BP might be possible, it seems a very low ISK/Hour or am I wrong? I like arranging the Command centers and mines and launchpads etc. Its just the transport thats a hassle I guess?


PI is fairly low effort. It takes roughly two weeks to train your skills to IV (few people go beyond that), and at that point you can harvest as well as anyone else.

The stumbling block for PI tends to be geographical. You need to find a planet that produces what you want effectively, but that is not already being farmed dry by other players. That probably means a remote planet at the very least, and typically also means you are looking at something in low sec, null sec, or w-space.

I do PI. I think it's great. I clear about 3 billion ISK per month across my single account. But that's because I live in a wormhole, and that arrangement precludes me doing other things (such as mining asteroids or ice belts, or harvesting k-space gas) reliably. I also can't play the markets effectively, or do anything else that requires a constant k-space presence.

So even though the skill cost is low, the game still pushes me to specialize in order to do PI effectively. Just like real life.

If you like reading about low sec piracy or wormhole pvp, you might enjoy my blog.

Dracones
Tarsis Inc
#9 - 2017-02-09 22:24:38 UTC
Mal-Ak Lah wrote:

I also thought about maybe applying the "mine-yourself" idea to PI and even though T1 BP might be possible, it seems a very low ISK/Hour or am I wrong?


If you're selling in Jita? Yeah probably. But if you find some out of the way markets and specialize in creating/transporting goods to sell to the locals there, you can make a decent markup. Though you may not be moving a lot of volume.

Your best bet might be to find a corp that needs someone with your interests. A lot of people just want to pew pew and sell/buy in their local space, so people who are into the building are valuable assets to those people. Just like people who enjoy moving 100k fried interface circuits 20 light years from Jita end up being valuable to you when you get into rig building.

Aurelius Oshidashi
Crystalline.
Fraternity.
#10 - 2017-02-10 14:55:25 UTC
You also asked if manufacturing t1 items can be profitable.

It certainly can be! It took me a while to figure out how to calculate my profit, but that's not really hard. From around 100 t1 BPO'S that I had fully researched, I found about 5 could make me profits over 100%, a fair amount around 30 or 50%, but the majority would turn in a loss. So you really have to research the market to figure it out!

One mistake I made in the beginning was not looking at the volumes that were sold, so I produced some stuff that didn't sell.

So yeah, start with t1 to get a hang of researching the market and selling your stuff I would say.

I manufacture simply because I like it. I could do other things with my time that would make me more isk. But I also manufacture because it has me study demand for modules and ships and let's me study the use of the modules and ships in question. This is beneficial for becoming better in eve.
Ne0SHNIK
NISMO RACING
#11 - 2017-02-10 19:16:32 UTC
It's definitely possible and I've done it before. But then I got burned out. Now, I do some PI that helps my manufacture. I could do more, but I don't. I just buy a lot of mats.
Some people get burned out more easily than others, so be sure to balance it and find what works for you.
Thomas Lot
Spatial Forces
Warped Intentions
#12 - 2017-02-10 19:26:47 UTC
As long as a VNI can make me 100-120 Mil / hour of casual ratting, and a carrier can make me +/- 250 Mil / hour, I am completely satisfied in letting other people do the

...moon mining,
...PI,
...material gathering,
...Exploration miningames,
...salvaging,
...huffing,
...BPC farming,
...Sleeper reverse engineering,
...reaction chaning,
...T2/T3 production

so I can purchase the ships, ammo, and mods that I keep losing becasue I suck at pvp.