Player Features and Ideas Discussion

As some people might know from my recent forum activity I am not a new player but a vet who has come back to relearn. Anyone who has spent time in this game knows about this learning curve as the "cliffs of insanity!". One thing that I have been learning is incursions, they provide a ridiculous amount of money and are great as a social niche for high sec players. Although I like the isk, I enjoy the social interactions, and the system is heading in the right direction, there is a lot about it that feels left undone. For your reading entertainment I present to you a list. Bear with me it is the easiest way to jot off things in an easy to read way. Spreadsheets online and you expect a youtube video rant.

1. Incursions feel like they should build up to more than just running sites. It really just feels like running missions over and over again only its the same 4 missions. The only reason to actually do incursions over missioning is socializing and not being in a marauder with a good LP/isk ratio.
2. Getting into incursions and learning the roles is confusing. It isn't the most complicated aspect of the game surely but all the same there is a ton of little things to account for. These little things can mean losing a very expensive ship or even being responsible for a lot more damage to other pilots. Now every group I have flown with is very patient and understanding, handling "newbros" very well. However incursions are also one of the only topics that isn't really touched on by a tutorial or at least one I couldn't find.
3. CCP did a great job of coming out with a product and leaving the player base with a means to figure it out on their own. In a sandbox game making content your own is ideal but it really has turned into "efficiency the grind".
4. I played when Incursions first came out. I was very excited to see CCP's version of raiding in a PVE context. The Sansha were a great topic and the new Drifter fleets feel very nice in a PVE development. However this is just a content churn and rewards with isk but no conclusion. CCP has never been great at spoon feeding lore to the player base you really need to read the shorts and take an interest to figure things out.
5. Here is the big one, the big gripe. I feel like incursions should escalate into a more advanced system of events rather than a deescalation into killing the MOM. For example I imagined Incursions or "EVE raiding" to be more of a story driven event spanning multiple systems and eventually giving conclusion to the why how and end of the sansha's interest in high sec. Now I see what you might be thinking "I don't want my isk faucet to disappear just for some RP to have closure". I am not suggesting they end permanently but rather that they move forward in a way that it makes a difference on how you do sites and that there is at least some kind of boss figure and requirement of the pilots involved. This also would be great for content like pirate faction incursions where you get a better idea of who they are and who is who.
6. Assaults, Vanguards, and Head quarters, should really be a ship tier event. Assaults would be a great way for alpha's to get into the grind along with giving new players a way in other than a 2 month skill plan and intro Hyperion. Vanguards should be a step up from them and be the middle ground, some alpha's but mostly available to omega pilots. And you get the flow of this by now. Also I feel the best done feature of the incursions is healing, though I feel the interface and the healing should be more active and friendly than anchors and agro swaps.
Assaults: Frigatess, Destoryers, Tech 2 variants.
Vanguards: Cruisers, Battlecruisers, tech 2/3 variants.
Head Quarters: Battleships, tech 2 variants "Marauders would be a great addition"

TL;DR CCP needs to take a look at incursions again and come up with new or more user friendly content that doesn't rely entirely on the player base to instruct others. AKA blues please respond with how you think incursions should be ran and your experience running them.

P.S. Sorry for grammatical errors in advance and the long read.

1. Incursions are invasions, there is no build up. Lore is Wormhole opens by sansha and you have instant sansha fleet locking down the system. fyi theres more than 4 sites, quit running only 1 category.

2. the roles are made by the players and no introduction can prepare you for it as a fleet can go very wrong very easily. in some sites if everyone works well you don't even need logi just mass firepower or a different setup.

3. CCP did an event for incursions before they became all sites. The players once again make up the efficiency grind, you don't have to be efficient to run incursions but since 99% of all players join them for the sole purpose of ISK, they do go for efficiency as less time in a site = more sites in the time of playing = more isk.

4. What would be the purpose of ending Incursions? to end hundreds of players new game style? to bring the faction ship use down? No one says you cant get a fleet together and end the current one and upset the whole system.

5. Asking to advance the system just means another fleet has together. the Boss figure is the MOM, what do you want the fleets to spawn at stations and mission sites too? there is already low and null sec sites that can make you more isk, but no one wants to risk their shiny ships.

6. No they shouldn't be Ship Tiers. Vanguards and HQs are ran based on number of pilots for efficiency. As is Scouts you can run in t1 bs and bc easy enough but no one does them because the isk isn't there. no one does assaults unless they lack numbers for HQ because they aren't efficient . if people could make 120+ million isk an hour in frigates people would just flood that.

Doesn't seem like you read any of my ideas before becoming defensive about yours. I'm not suggesting getting rid of them, just expanding on the idea. The whole point of my argument is that it is just a isk faucet with no point in the game other than to make it hand over fist. Not to mention the fact that only two sites are actually run. My proposed ideas wouldn't change the use of faction battleships, it would just expand ship usage across the board. Also, it would encourage CCP with a means to generate more content in a cookie cutter sort of way that is both easy for them and entertaining to the player base.



The whole point is taking a site no one runs and making it useful to the game. People really do never run them because of the poor isk for time investment. Why not make it available as an intro base with high enough pay to be worth it for alpha's but low enough that it encourages people to move forward.

Incursions should not be in highsec. Neither should lvl 4 missions for that matter. It's endgame, doesn't belong.

Not this sh*t again...

What would be a good ship for incursion anyway? Every time I've tried I get blown up

Or you can go solo in scout sites in a marauder for the lulz.

If not that it's a no-go to try solo, it's made for groups.

Don't forget that incursions are being run by armor ships as well. These use above mentioned pirate BSs hulls as well Paladins, Kronos, Guardians, Oneiros, Nestors. Besides that there are communities that run VG sites in "Bastion" format e.i. Marauders without logistic ships at all. Then there are newbro friendly communities that accept pilots even in T1 Battleships and they are fine for the starter. And incursion communities in low sec use strategic cruisers and t2 cruisers a lot. so there is wide variety of ships that are "good".

But if we return to the original question which was asked, then it depends... if LulKlz Duster means what would be a good ship for incursion TO RUN SOLO, then the answer is NONE. As incursion is group content and you are supposed to do it in fleet. If you try to do it solo and get blown, this is working as intended. Even if you'll manage to get out in one peace you won't earn anything anyway as by finishing site solo you are under the minimum number of participants and get 0 reward.

For more details, look at the payout graph in the journal. Having too many or too few fleet members reduces the payout per member. At 1 member, payout is usually 0 isk. Beyond that, depends on the site class.

I guess as to the OP, I'm still not entirely sure what you want.

What I'd personally want for the future of PVE is a new separate system that's a hybrid of incursions and normal missions. Right now players are effectively punished for trying to do PVE with their friends, outside of incursions. For what I hope are obvious reasons, this is bad in an MMO. What I'd like to see in a new system is a mission type that would scale in difficulty and payout in response to the amount of fleet members brought and fleet composition, maxing out somewhere around 5-10% more with a full fleet per pilot per hour than current level 4's solo. These would come from mission agents, maybe eventually replacing the current mission system entirely as enough missions are authored to make it a primary activity. Even better if every aspect is dynamically determined based on game-wide median player performance, using a supply and demand algorithm to drive players into every possible niche.

But... this is all just self congratulating fantasies that really ought to be in F&I rather than GD.

I weep for any newbro put on the incursion path