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Customer Support lifting previous restrictions regarding war decs

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Elessa Enaka
Doomheim
#541 - 2012-01-16 17:20:08 UTC
Milla Lekarariba wrote:
This is just terrible and wrong...

Yet another blow for the new player, and those trying to start a new corp.

Why?

Think about it, the only people that are going to be able to afford this 'dec shield' are the larger corporations with the isk to spare or those with a lot of support from other corporations / alliances.

New corps do not have tons of isk to waste on things like this, it is already difficult enough to recruit new players, and this latest move is just going to make it even more difficult to get a new corp off the ground as most people will obviously prefer to go to those with a dec shield.

Bad move CCP, very bad move, a move to towards a more stale eve which only favours the vets


Wow, at first I thought you were crying about me being able to harass someone ad infinitum by way of wardec, but turns out you're crying about something you obviously don't understand since it costs nothing to shield the dec, but it costs something to declare the war

Devour to survive, so it is, so it's always been Eve is a great game if you can get past all of the asshats....
Milla Lekarariba
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#542 - 2012-01-17 11:15:28 UTC
My point still stands..

I believe you are referring to the making the war mutual? hence eliminating the costs?

You still need to have friends in other alliances / corps or enough alts to do this.

Its yet another bit or meta gaming that is spoiling the game
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#543 - 2012-01-17 11:34:26 UTC
Milla Lekarariba wrote:
My point still stands..

I believe you are referring to the making the war mutual? hence eliminating the costs?

You still need to have friends in other alliances / corps or enough alts to do this.

Its yet another bit or meta gaming that is spoiling the game


There are two types of DecShields.

One is done by getting a lot of incoming decs, toggling their being mutual to keep the cost to dec you high, and the cost to keep the decshield up low. This costs some Isk to set up, no isk to maintain. EvE-University does this.

The other is to Join and Leave an alliance. Done right, your POS is never susceptible to a Wardec when it comes out of RF. This is what the DecShield alliance offers for free.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Cyzlaki
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#544 - 2012-01-17 13:15:03 UTC
Isn't the next expansion about WAR? Why get your knickers in a twist, it's probably a temporary thing.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#545 - 2012-01-17 13:22:37 UTC
Cyzlaki wrote:
Isn't the next expansion about WAR? Why get your knickers in a twist, it's probably a temporary thing.


Isn't the pain of getting kicked in the nuts fleeting? Why be bothered by getting kicked in the nuts if it's just going to not hurt soon.


Just sayin' Just because a piece of stupid is temporary doesn't make it not stupid. Plus, they only did this when people started noticing that EvE-University had had a very large shield up for ~4months.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
YoungMoney CashMoney Billionaires
Doomheim
#546 - 2012-01-17 13:52:17 UTC
i just want to make them squeal, please fix this asap. thanks.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#547 - 2012-01-18 03:04:24 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Just sayin' Just because a piece of stupid is temporary doesn't make it not stupid. Plus, they only did this when people started noticing that EvE-University had had a very large shield up for ~4months.
Their shield, previously, was two or three corps. Now it is 17 corps.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#548 - 2012-01-18 03:17:25 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Just sayin' Just because a piece of stupid is temporary doesn't make it not stupid. Plus, they only did this when people started noticing that EvE-University had had a very large shield up for ~4months.
Their shield, previously, was two or three corps. Now it is 17 corps.


I was under the impression it had ballooned into ~10 around 4 months before the announcement.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#549 - 2012-01-19 01:59:46 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Just sayin' Just because a piece of stupid is temporary doesn't make it not stupid. Plus, they only did this when people started noticing that EvE-University had had a very large shield up for ~4months.
Their shield, previously, was two or three corps. Now it is 17 corps.


I was under the impression it had ballooned into ~10 around 4 months before the announcement.
Not as far as I know. My entire time in the Uni is was 2 or 3 corps (can't remember which). They called it Decshield 2.0. It was around 10 last year, before CCP told them to stop it, giving them permission for the 2/3 corp decshield they used from that point until the changes to wardec policy.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#550 - 2012-01-19 14:32:35 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Just sayin' Just because a piece of stupid is temporary doesn't make it not stupid. Plus, they only did this when people started noticing that EvE-University had had a very large shield up for ~4months.
Their shield, previously, was two or three corps. Now it is 17 corps.


I was under the impression it had ballooned into ~10 around 4 months before the announcement.
Not as far as I know. My entire time in the Uni is was 2 or 3 corps (can't remember which). They called it Decshield 2.0. It was around 10 last year, before CCP told them to stop it, giving them permission for the 2/3 corp decshield they used from that point until the changes to wardec policy.


So they got permission to use a limited expression of an exploit unavailable to other players. That's some nifty information.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#551 - 2012-01-19 14:49:40 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Just sayin' Just because a piece of stupid is temporary doesn't make it not stupid. Plus, they only did this when people started noticing that EvE-University had had a very large shield up for ~4months.
Their shield, previously, was two or three corps. Now it is 17 corps.

Roll

Your becoming "Stammerer" again...

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#552 - 2012-01-20 02:50:53 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Just sayin' Just because a piece of stupid is temporary doesn't make it not stupid. Plus, they only did this when people started noticing that EvE-University had had a very large shield up for ~4months.
Their shield, previously, was two or three corps. Now it is 17 corps.


I was under the impression it had ballooned into ~10 around 4 months before the announcement.
Not as far as I know. My entire time in the Uni is was 2 or 3 corps (can't remember which). They called it Decshield 2.0. It was around 10 last year, before CCP told them to stop it, giving them permission for the 2/3 corp decshield they used from that point until the changes to wardec policy.
So they got permission to use a limited expression of an exploit unavailable to other players. That's some nifty information.
They did. Though any corp could have used the decshield ... the policy wasn't for e-Uni alone ... of course, CCP never made public that info, so in effect it was an E-Uni-only policy.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#553 - 2012-01-20 02:52:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Just sayin' Just because a piece of stupid is temporary doesn't make it not stupid. Plus, they only did this when people started noticing that EvE-University had had a very large shield up for ~4months.
Their shield, previously, was two or three corps. Now it is 17 corps.

Your becoming "Stammerer" again...

What? FACTS scare you? It's a f*cking fact. What do you have to hide? That you pop up here the moment someone mentions E-Uni, and you get out of sorts at the mention of a FACT ... hell, what is your problem? Unknot your panties, Asuri.

If my reply was anything, I did E-Uni a favour, by correcting a misconception on the history of the Decshield.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#554 - 2012-01-20 05:25:16 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
What? FACTS scare you? It's a f*cking fact. What do you have to hide? That you pop up here the moment someone mentions E-Uni, and you get out of sorts at the mention of a FACT ... hell, what is your problem? Unknot your panties, Asuri.

If my reply was anything, I did E-Uni a favour, by correcting a misconception on the history of the Decshield.

Dude, I pop into this thread every few days. I just like to point out your pathological obsession with E-U. Hide anything? Surely you jest...


As for *you* ever doing the Uni a favor? The best thing you could do for e-uni is biomass / uninstall.

Leave it at "War Dec mechanics need to be overhauled" and you'll be fine. E-U does more for this game (and the players in it) in one day than you have or will do.

o7

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Kelduum Revaan
The Ebon Hawk
#555 - 2012-01-20 08:53:07 UTC
Ok, time for some actual facts, complete with numbers...

  • April-May, 2008 - I come up with an interesting idea after working out the costs for some recent wars, and check via various petitions to see if the wardec mechanics are operating normally. The response is that they are and everything is by design, and 'wars can be declared for any reason'. Confirm things on both Sisi and TQ.
  • May, 2008 - First 'DecShield' happens with 19 wars. Current wartargets are not happy. This runs for a month, before its taken down, potentially ruled (although never communicated) an exploit by CCP.
  • December, 2008 - 'DecShield 2.0' is brought up using different mechanics in a limited fashion with far less wars. Runs for around 2 months before being shelved.
  • April-May 2011 - A series of long conversations with CCP GMs on the subject of what if anything is objectional.
  • May 15th, 2011 - 'DecShield 3.0' is live, comprising of two corporations, on an account specifically created and funded for them. Wars and fees are paid for in full, totalling 200M ISK per week plus PLEX costs. No 'exploits' are used.
  • October 10th, 2011 - CCP remove restrictions.
  • October 12th, 2011 - Current state of play. A total of 19 wars, using 19 different alts across 19 accounts, all of which are paid for by and live. One particular war lasts for a further 4 weeks at 1 billion ISK per week.
  • December 16th, 2011 - A smallish 8 man corporation declares war on E-UNI, paying the full 1 billion ISK fee.


Now, back on the subject, I would welcome CCP 'fixing' the wardec mechanics in such a way that we don't need to or even can't use the DecShield, but I would expect it would take more than a simple 'price hike' to do it properly -after all, CCP have stated since the first CSM that wardecs are 'pay to grief' and they aren't happy with the mechanics.

As is, 'warfare' is sounding like it will be the focus of the next expansion, and CCP have now admitted the current system is broken and impossible to police, so I would seriously expect something to appear on this subject.

As its now unstickied, bumping this topic only serves to make the 'exploits' more obvious for those who wouldn't know about them, and make things worse for those who don't like it. I'll let you discuss amongst yourselves if further bumping of this thread is a good thing or not.
WhaleCommander
Caucasian Culture Club
#556 - 2012-01-20 11:07:36 UTC
What annoys me about war decs is that I get griefers that want easy kills, when I come with a gang they dock up and refuse to fight me.

I believe the war dec mechanics need a drastic change.

Since they war decced me, they should be obligated to fight me, meaning that I should be able force them to undock and fight me. They started the war, now they must fight.

They can't dock up in a station and hide when im in the system, I should be able to get them to fight me since that's what they agreed to with war declaration. To make it fair they should be able to do the same to me.

Cowardice should not be rewarded, it should be punished.

If they don't want to undock and fight we can make an agreement in that they pay me isk and they drop the war dec. Once the agreement is made, the war is invalidated and I receive the isk.

Oh and when a war is made mutual the aggressing party is unable to invalidate the war for another week.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#557 - 2012-01-21 00:23:19 UTC
WhaleCommander wrote:
[people] that want easy kills ...

Everybody wants easy kills. Even you. No one looks for a challenge every fight.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#558 - 2012-01-21 00:27:24 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
What? FACTS scare you? It's a f*cking fact. What do you have to hide? That you pop up here the moment someone mentions E-Uni, and you get out of sorts at the mention of a FACT ... hell, what is your problem? Unknot your panties, Asuri.

If my reply was anything, I did E-Uni a favour, by correcting a misconception on the history of the Decshield.

Dude, I pop into this thread every few days. I just like to point out your pathological obsession with E-U. Hide anything?

Someone mentioned something about the Uni decshields. I added what I remembered. Kelduum cleared it up. Was called Decshield 3.0, not 2.0. What's so obsessive about answering/correcting someone's assumption?

You're pretty f*cking obsessed with me though. ;) You going to Fanfest? I could pose with you in a photo. That should make your month. I'll even sign it.

My friend Asuri,

Stop crawling up my ass!

Poetic.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#559 - 2012-01-21 00:28:05 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
What? FACTS scare you? It's a f*cking fact. What do you have to hide? That you pop up here the moment someone mentions E-Uni, and you get out of sorts at the mention of a FACT ... hell, what is your problem? Unknot your panties, Asuri.

If my reply was anything, I did E-Uni a favour, by correcting a misconception on the history of the Decshield.

Dude, I pop into this thread every few days. I just like to point out your pathological obsession with E-U. Hide anything? Surely you jest...


As for *you* ever doing the Uni a favor? The best thing you could do for e-uni is biomass / uninstall.

Leave it at "War Dec mechanics need to be overhauled" and you'll be fine. E-U does more for this game (and the players in it) in one day than you have or will do.

o7


E-Uni used to be a great beacon of teaching in this game. They have, however, attracted a huge amount of baggage over the years, to the point where the primary activity in the corp is no longer teaching, and what teaching occurs is subpar (judging by results, forum activity of members, and the attitude the leadership showed during the recent RvB war).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#560 - 2012-01-21 02:32:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuri Kinnes
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
You're pretty f*cking obsessed with me though. ;) You going to Fanfest? I could pose with you in a photo. That should make your month. I'll even sign it.

My friend Asuri,

Stop crawling up my ass!

Poetic.

LOL - I love watching you twitch... Like a frog in science class.


Edit to add "content": Can't remember if it was Meissa or Tebor who said (blogged?) that during conversations, that CCP mentioned the 'Dec mechanics are getting looked at. Can't wait to see what they come up with.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.