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Nullification and Interdiction

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Dug
Black Sea Industries
Blue Loot Not Included
#61 - 2017-02-01 16:17:07 UTC
So make bubbles cap dependant!

An anchored bubble has a cargo bay accessible by who (corp or individual) to access and replenish the cap charges.

Large = 3200's

Medium = 800's

Small = 200's

Anti bubble warfare, drain the cap of a bubble and it goes off line. Needs more cap boosters and redoes the onlining timer.

If the bubbles have cargo for day's or hours, is for highly trained balance dev's to decide.


I'm on the fence if light-dictor bubbles should be affected. (they have a battery, and draining cap reduces the time the field is up?!?)


This change could be utilised by sending a Curse ahead of the fleet to clear a path.
Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#62 - 2017-02-01 16:20:37 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Rainus Max wrote:
I'd liked to see a manned counter to nullified ships.

Perhaps a HIC mod/script that creates a bubble that only drags nullified ships but is only say 10km in radius



you mean like smartbomb?


As long as it stops them warping off.

I have zero issue with nullification but it would be nice have some way of catching them every now and again.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#63 - 2017-02-01 16:20:53 UTC
Tribal Trogdor wrote:

I think the current broken part of T3's with nullification is the ability to refit subsystems with a depot. You shouldn't be able to fly somewhere, with such incredibility low risk then refit to a full combat fit to do whatever it is you want (pve/pvp/other?) and then refit and leave again with almost no risk.





they actually don't have that low of risk


a decent camp can catch one before it warps of

dramis regularly manage to de-cloak and tackle me before i align and warp in my t3 so no the bubble isn't enough to catch them but standard camps are. you also can't refit at this point

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Zanthar Eos
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#64 - 2017-02-01 16:21:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Zanthar Eos
Remove nullification from interceptors, leave it for t3s. Allow non combat ships to be nullified. Add a 24 hour life to bubbles.
Soleil Fournier
Fliet Pizza Delivery
Of Essence
#65 - 2017-02-01 16:22:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Soleil Fournier
On anchorable bubbles :

Yes, they should be a 'timed' deployable.

I also believe there should be restrictions on the number of anchorable bubbles placed next to one another, but that a super huge bubble should be created to compensate. This would not only lighten the load on graphics cards, but make understanding what is happening much easier compared to the graphical mess a large number of overlapping bubbles is now.


On Nullification :

The answer is "it depends." I believe nullification on T3 ships is fine, but not on interceptors or other combat ships.

I support nullification on shuttles and blockaid runners (I mean, they're supposed to run past blockaids right? Sounds like nullification to me).
Lugh Crow-Slave
#66 - 2017-02-01 16:23:52 UTC
Soleil Fournier wrote:

I support nullification on shuttles and blockaid runners (I mean, they're supposed to run past blockaids right? Sounds like nullification to me).


the thing with BRs is they can already get bast them since they are able to take a black ops bridge


i think that they need a team effort is far better

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
skar23
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2017-02-01 16:24:33 UTC
Cassie Helio wrote:
Some other pilots believe that the nullified inty is a risk free travel ship but that is not true. That's why we DO NOT use intys to haul goods at PushX. They are hard to catch but they are easy to smartbomb and it happens all the time and it even happens in null. Like every other good balance it has its advantages and disadvantages. It is quick and nullified but it's also weak and fragile.



It is quite harsh to be rolling along in an interceptor and suddenly you are dead and your pod is also dead - that is drawback enough smart bombers kill you every time -
there is no escape.....
epicurus 2
Secret Passage
#68 - 2017-02-01 16:24:53 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus 2
Christy Cloud wrote:
To copy what I said in slack -

i feel that nullification suits what a ceptors meant to do, a yacht is fine, shuttles i'd actually say no, as it becomes a fairly risk free way of moving your pod

t3 interdiction i feel should have more of a draw back than just "you cant do anything else with this subsystem slot" it should penalize, rather than just not benefit

blockade runners, no - Getting through a bubble is the job of the pilot

as for bubbles, i'd rather they have a cargo that they slowly consume, meaning they have to be maintained, and attackers can send forward scouts to just nick all the ammo

You should be aware, that not only do you miss having a more useful subsystem, you also suffer a loss of a low slot, which has a SIGNIFICANT effect on the combat fit of a t3.

The effect of fitting for nullification is quite sufficient for you to want to avoid the subsystem unless it is really needed.

Edit, the suggestion of adding nullification to the Blockade runners and removing the cargo scan immunity is an excellent one. Supported.
Soleil Fournier
Fliet Pizza Delivery
Of Essence
#69 - 2017-02-01 16:28:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Soleil Fournier
That requires 2 other ships....a covert cyno ship, and a blackops to bridge. While I support team gameplay, 'blockaid runner' is a very specific term. They aren't "Blockaid Avoiders" or "Blockaid Bypassers." Also, forming a group like that is not viable most of the time. Maybe on occasion, but not consistently.

If you want them to be "Blockaid Bypassers" then give them the ability to jump to a covert cyno without the need for a black ops portal, and rename them as such.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#70 - 2017-02-01 16:29:52 UTC
Soleil Fournier wrote:
That requires 2 other ships....a covert cyno ship, and a blackops to bridge. While I support team gameplay, 'blockaid runner' is a very specific term. They aren't "Blockaid Avoiders" or "Blockaid Bypassers"

Also forming a group like that is not viable most of the time. Maybe on occasion, but not consistently.



we do it all the time your group just sounds like it needs to pull its self together


it is not hard to get three people together

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Soleil Fournier
Fliet Pizza Delivery
Of Essence
#71 - 2017-02-01 16:34:06 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

we do it all the time your group just sounds like it needs to pull its self together


it is not hard to get three people together


"My group" uses Jump Freighters :)

I would venture that the number of blockaid runners bypassing gatecamps in the manner you described is pretty low. While it's not 'hard' to get 3 people together, most people don't bother and either find another way (JFs) or wait for the camp to break up.
Mirta Vanderkill
Sgt. Holtman's Heroes
#72 - 2017-02-01 16:34:35 UTC
As for nullified ships, I feel that anything capable of doing more than interceptor-levels of damage shouldn't be capable of nullifcation.

For example, I'm fine with T3's being nullified, but I'd like to see it at the cost of all but one of their turret slots. Whole fleets of nullified cruisers shouldn't be a thing. Interceptors are OK because for them to pump out a significant amount of damage, their EHP has to be ****. A whole fleet could be wiped by one or two smartbombing battleships.

As for anchored bubbles, I'm fine with leaving them setup until after downtime. It's probably as close to a "minefield" as we can get. If so motivated, Alliances can set them up to slow down fleet movements, giving them more time to form and making their space far less fun to conquer than someone else's.

Actual minefields would be cool too btw. Something along the lines of anchoring a large smartbomb for a long-term anchorable, or a one-shot mine that counts for 4-8 smartbombs on the first hostile it sees.
Stonewall Riot
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#73 - 2017-02-01 16:34:48 UTC
Make current nullification module on t3c's or hell even make a new fittable module for DST/BR's that allow nullification but that nullification comes with the same penalty as a polarized weapon. 0% resists and heck, maybe even add a cloaking activation timer upon jump(or just all the time)?

Gate jump hold cloak timer = 30 seconds, Nullification module adds a 50 second timer to reactivate cloak that can be lowered X% by Covert Ops skill but truly only getting down close to 30 sec with level V covops skill

Creates a challenge to create a cloaky nullified combat ship, still can be done but you've gotta be smarter and increases risk.

If you make the modules for other ships then it makes those folks have to be smarter about what they are doing and pay a lot more attention.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#74 - 2017-02-01 16:35:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Soleil Fournier wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

we do it all the time your group just sounds like it needs to pull its self together


it is not hard to get three people together


"My group" uses Jump Freighters :)

I would venture that the number of blockaid runners bypassing gatecamps in the manner you described is pretty low. While it's not 'hard' to get 3 people together, most people don't bother and either find another way (JFs) or wait for the camp to break up.



there are times you need to get goods where you don't want a JF. such as when there is no station otherwise yeah just use a JF


but tbh i thing dst and BR are named backwards DST are built to literally run the camps

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Sarah Flynt
Red Cross Mercenaries
Silent Infinity
#75 - 2017-02-01 16:36:05 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
lol show me the fits that survive 16 faction bombs and can ista warp aside from that you will regularly find smartbomb camps with 4+BBs

[Ares, Travelceptor]

Damage Control II
Inertial Stabilizers II
Inertial Stabilizers II
Inertial Stabilizers II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Medium F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II

I'm sorry, I had my warp speed rigged travelceptor in mind which only tanks two. Above cheap fitting tanks THREE SB Battleships (they hit for 3000HP each):

9.36k EHP on the lowest resist without heat, 1.8s align time.

Would you call using 4 SB battleships to take out a frig "easy"? What are you actually saying?

Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
Scotsman Howard
S0utherN Comfort
#76 - 2017-02-01 16:36:17 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:

Some topics:

Should you be able to have nullified combat ships? Why, or why not?

How about non-combat ships? Shuttles? Blockade runners? Yachts?

Should anchorable bubbles exist? Should they decay if they exist?


What I write below is based on my experiences in null as a cloaky camper, guy getting cloaky camped, fleet scout, fleet member, and normal player trying to move around.


Before I address the questions, I feel that interdiction should be a module that can only be fit to certain ships.



Should combat ships be nullified? - Yes BUT:

- They should not able to instawarp (ceptors). Please keep in mind I am referring to combat ships only here. I would have no problem with a shuttle that could insta-warp and be nullified.
- They should not be able to fit cynos (or at the very least covert cynos). This primarily affects T3s as far as covert cynos go.


Should non-combat ships be nullified? - Yes BUT:

Shuttles, Yatchs, etc. (basically stuff that is just there to help a play move from one place to the other.
- Zero combat possibilities
- Cannot fit cloaks
- Cannot fit cyno
- Zero cargo space (or heck let them have cargo space so we see blueprint shuttles killed)

Blockade Runners, others: No unless interdiction is a module, but even then it could be debated against.


Anchored Bubbles: Yes keep them BUT:

1. Have them use stront or something as fuel. Make it a small amount needed but small cargo bay so it has to be refilled 1 or 2 times a week.
2. KILLMAILS
3. Reduce their EHP
4. Limit how close they can be anchored together to prevent spam (probably increase the size of the bubble to compensate a little but be careful as one bubble would then be able to completely cover a POS)
Lugh Crow-Slave
#77 - 2017-02-01 16:38:38 UTC
Sarah Flynt wrote:


Would you call using 4 SB battleships to take out a frig "easy"? What are you actually saying?



yes as that is the size of most of the camps and you can just afk and get kms

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Soleil Fournier
Fliet Pizza Delivery
Of Essence
#78 - 2017-02-01 16:39:20 UTC
I'd also submit that needing a billion-ish isk blackops battleship and a toon skilled in it (plus the covert ops cyno ship and a toon trained for that) just to use your hauler as it was intended to bypass a gatecamp is too big a burden.

What other ship in eve requires 2 other ships in order to accomplish it's primary purpose?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#79 - 2017-02-01 16:39:26 UTC
Scotsman Howard wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:

Some topics:

Should you be able to have nullified combat ships? Why, or why not?

How about non-combat ships? Shuttles? Blockade runners? Yachts?

Should anchorable bubbles exist? Should they decay if they exist?


What I write below is based on my experiences in null as a cloaky camper, guy getting cloaky camped, fleet scout, fleet member, and normal player trying to move around.


Before I address the questions, I feel that interdiction should be a module that can only be fit to certain ships.



Should combat ships be nullified? - Yes BUT:

- They should not able to instawarp (ceptors). Please keep in mind I am referring to combat ships only here. I would have no problem with a shuttle that could insta-warp and be nullified.
- They should not be able to fit cynos (or at the very least covert cynos). This primarily affects T3s as far as covert cynos go.


Should non-combat ships be nullified? - Yes BUT:

Shuttles, Yatchs, etc. (basically stuff that is just there to help a play move from one place to the other.
- Zero combat possibilities
- Cannot fit cloaks
- Cannot fit cyno
- Zero cargo space (or heck let them have cargo space so we see blueprint shuttles killed)

Blockade Runners, others: No unless interdiction is a module, but even then it could be debated against.


Anchored Bubbles: Yes keep them BUT:

1. Have them use stront or something as fuel. Make it a small amount needed but small cargo bay so it has to be refilled 1 or 2 times a week.
2. KILLMAILS
3. Reduce their EHP
4. Limit how close they can be anchored together to prevent spam (probably increase the size of the bubble to compensate a little but be careful as one bubble would then be able to completely cover a POS)




lol does test have trouble keeping its ratters safe from the little guy with a cyno?

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Tribal Trogdor
Doomheim
#80 - 2017-02-01 16:42:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tribal Trogdor
deleted