Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Should you be able to have nullified combat ships? Why, or why not?


I think it's a bad thing they way it's set up now. It gives players the ability to just skip over parts of the game (interdictors, gatecamps and bubbles) and bypass mechanics without real counter.

The way it's set up now with cloaky nullified almost insta warping Tech 3 cruisers, insta warping or stabbed interceptors it's just a mess and leads too all sort of weird fringe stuff like Slippery Pete's, Alpha Claws and cyno ceptors. Which are all amazing at not committing to a fight and grid, while being able to do some decent damage numbers and having a real impact without being able to or fight them make a mistake themselves.

For Tech 3 cruisers shooting out to 250km while being nullified makes no sense and is just not fitting, those ranges should be the area of long range battleships and require a similar committent to the battlefield in terms of engageability.

if the ability to fit a cloak, shoot out to ******** ranges for a cruiser hull and stabs would be removed from nullified ships (or remove nullification from ships that have those fitted) , it would be fine for Tech 3 frigate, Destroyer and Cruiser hulls.

How about non-combat ships? Shuttles? Blockade runners? Yachts?

non combat ships are a tough one. On one hand it's handy and fitting for them (like the Yacht), but nullified blockade runners would be way to powerful for the cargo hold size. A transport frigate sized hull with nullification would be cool though, transport Tech 3 cruisers are in a good spot in that regard. They serve a niche without being disruptive (not a too big cargo hold).

Should anchorable bubbles exist? Should they decay if they exist?

I like gameplay elements that give players the means to alter the space they live in and customize it how they see fit. Bubbles will just never be a 'fun' item for the people they are used against, that is the whole purpose of them. I would lower their HP and build costs accordingly. If you get caught you can just shoot them and get out faster, but they still serve the purpose of disrupting your access and giving defenders the ability to have a short while to get themselves sorted or get save.

They do serve a purpose of buying time for players to get safe. Removing them from the game will just cause those players to live in even more remote areas (only last system of pipes, scouts in more systems out). CCP just introduced a rebranded ship to counter this (rorqual) and I think that is enough. Players who don't want to pvp would just adapt to there being no bubbles, so removing them serves no role except creating more empty space for players to complain about.

Which is a fun topic in itself and almost the same as China's Fishing practices in which they kill everything in their waters and complain that there is no more fish and then causing a uproar and start fishing in other countries territorial waters, causing all kinds of international accidents, while playing dumb 'we are just fisherman trying to make a living, we have no fish in our waters'. Instead of fixing the problem.

Heavy ships like battleships should be less effected by them than smaller ships. Since they are a delaying tactic and heavy ships aren't known for their speed already.

I don't mind nullification on t3 cruisers since the subsystem makes them terrible in combat for their price.

However, interceptors should have never been nullified. They were fine before, as tackle/scout/solo pvp. Typical case of fixing something that's not broken.
The main purpose of nullified interceptors was so they get to their objective faster. They don't. They just run AWAY from fights faster.

A well fitted travel interceptor survives 2 faction fitted SB battleships. I wouldn't exactly call that "easy to smartbomb". They're not invincible, but correctly fitted ones are certainly not that easy to take down during travel.

TL;DR: make nullification a module, and when the module is applied, make it conflict with all weapons including ECM, tackle, and drones. Disallow fitting of weapons and cynos. That way if you are doing combat, you are vulnerable to defense fleets.


Nullification is important for transport into and out of low sec and null sec as well as travel through wh chains to markets. We need nullification. But we don't need it for combat.

Make bubbles and other deployables hackable. Allow me to use a data analyzer on them, play the minigame, and unanchor them and scoop.

Anchorable bubbles should most definitely have an expiry date when they either turn off or destroy themselves. Anchorable bubbles should not ever get any additional benefits that people float around in the forum, like a mild stasis webifier effect or agility penalty. If such additional bubble benefits got ever introduced, they should be reserved for Hictors alone.

There are some limited cases where people BLOPS bridge nullified T3C around. As far as I know, Drone Proteii and Neut Legions are pretty popular for that, but they are the only real combat ship that can dish out some notable DPS and tank more than just a sneeze. There shouldn't be more of these ships but also not less because they play a vital role in grabbing and destroying certain target where other ships would just die before a bridge could get established.

Nullified Blockade Runners would be pretty awesome, in particular because it would make their name finally carry some weight and not just be empty words; however, it would make traveling around, for instance via JBs, too safe and convenient. I also do not believe that shuttles should be nullified, because it would make moving around even cheaper than it already is (a travel ceptor costs barely 30M, a shuttle costs 15k). I do not think that the argument of "nullified shuttle allows noobs from high sec to explore deep dangerous space" holds any water. Someone who has not trained for a ceptor and informed themselves about how to travel "safely" in null sec has no place there and having him move around there provides no beneficial activities for neither him nor the residents in the area. If a noob really wants to explore outer space, that's what Yachts are for, but they come with a price, which in turn encourages those noobs to inform themselves about what they want to do first and discourages ever so slightly willy-nilly-carelessly flying around without any consideration.

Or in other words:
In my opinion, there should not be more and there should not be fewer cloaky-/nullified ships.
Bubbles that do not require constant player interaction to stay active should turn off after a certain time. Bubbles, which require constant player interaction, ie. Hictor bubbles only, could get another little buff.

why do you think you are entitled to it being easy?


EDIT


i just went to play with fits no cepter i could put together was able to take 16 faction smartbombs AND be able to instawarp

That doesn't solve any of the points, being killed by a smartbomb is because the nullified pilot did something wrong, not because of some great counter gameplay.

You won't kill Slippery pete's with smartbombs, you won't kill alpha claws with smartbombs, since they can choose their targets easily and disengage faster than you can activate your bombs. The only thing a smartbomb counters is dumb travelcaptors.

lol show me the fits that survive 16 faction bombs and can ista warp aside from that you will regularly find smartbomb camps with 4+BBs

I'd liked to see a manned counter to nullified ships.

Perhaps a HIC mod/script that creates a bubble that only drags nullified ships but is only say 10km in radius

Bubbles should definitely exist. They're rather useful in small/solo camping where you don't want to have to sit with a bubble ship, or otherwise don't have access to one.

Should they decay? That depends. Do you plan to make them easier to kill? If so, no. Do you plan to make them more expensive? If so, no. But currently roaming through drone lands there are some systems with 20+ Large T2 bubbles on and around the gates in most systems. Each costing only some 20 mil and having 200k hp. Many of these systems are just empty, so they are more or less just a pain in the ass that nobody really wants to sit around and shoot for no gain/reward, which means pretty low risk of having to replace for people who drop them.

As bubbles and interdiction currently are though, I think some special ships, like interceptors and yachts should be immune to them. Being able to get eyes on a gate/system without being pulled to a gate, especially with current 40km hic points and such is important.

I think the current broken part of T3's with nullification is the ability to refit subsystems with a depot. You shouldn't be able to fly somewhere, with such incredibility low risk then refit to a full combat fit to do whatever it is you want (pve/pvp/other?) and then refit and leave again with almost no risk.