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Ideas for battleships
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Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#1 - 2017-01-31 20:40:58 UTC
A few ideas I was thinking about with battleships. The problem as I see it is once you are scrammed and even if you have a single tracking disruptor you are basically unable to do any damage to any frigates or t3ds inside range. This is true even if you have one grappler web and 1 regular web.

1) some sort of ewar resistance. Say 50%.

2) A new module that works as an afterburner burst. The idea is that it would give your battleship the ability to pulse for a high rate of speed say somewhere around 600% speed boost but it does so for only one cycle. It then has a spool up timer. It would be immune to scrams and should have some immunity to webs as well. Maybe webs cap out to make it only 400% speed boost. The idea is that the battle ship pilot can use this to momentarilly gain some transversal and at least get a few good shots off to possibly kill some of the smaller stuff instead of just always being a sitting duck. I don't really know all the details or numbers here but you get the idea.

3) they should get a hp buff. The increase in ehp between BS and carriers should be comparable to the ehp increase between BS and bcs.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2017-01-31 20:51:03 UTC
Why?

Bigger is not always better, and nor should it be. If he's in under your guns, and has you scrammed and TDed, where are your drones and/or neuts?
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#3 - 2017-01-31 21:06:36 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Why?

Bigger is not always better, and nor should it be. If he's in under your guns, and has you scrammed and TDed, where are your drones and/or neuts?



Drones wont hit him unless they are the light or medium variety which are fairly easy for him (or the group of frigates) to pop.

Neuts don't work well either because the large neuts have a long cycle. He just needs to fit a small nos and he has all the cap he needs to keep his point and prop mod going preventing any damage. And when there are 4 or five frigates on you you can't neut them all.

Im not saying bigger needs to always be better. But now Battleships have no place - especially in low sec.

The changes I propose do not make it so battleships can not be brought down by a group in smaller ships. The group of smaller ships will still be able to hold point and keep the BS with them. It just makes it so the fight isn't entirely over once they establish an orbit at 500 with no kills for the BS.

From my low sec perspective, the more options people have to bring fights to groups the more they will do so. So whether I am in the gang or solo I would prefer it if there were more options for content. If any of the ideas would break null sec then say which. But really I don't think any would. BSes are really used that often in null either.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2017-01-31 21:19:55 UTC
If there are four or five of them, and they are fit for that kind of fight, do you really think one MWD cycle is going to help you do anything at all? If you're outnumbered and outfit, why should there be a one hit gtfo button anyway?

And do you really want to see million EHP battleships? That'll just put null back to biggest ball of maelstroms wins.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#5 - 2017-01-31 21:50:43 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
If there are four or five of them, and they are fit for that kind of fight, do you really think one MWD cycle is going to help you do anything at all? If you're outnumbered and outfit, why should there be a one hit gtfo button anyway?

And do you really want to see million EHP battleships? That'll just put null back to biggest ball of maelstroms wins.



They don't have to be fit for the fight. Your guns won't hit them. And it is not a gtfo button. The burst will not allow you to break point and get away. It will just make your ship fast enough for a short time so you can actually hit something.

Yes I think one burst of an mwd to reduce the transversal will help you start killing them. I used to do this with a rupture. If I was fighting single smaller ship I could use 2 neuts to drain their cap to force them to drop point and pulse my mwd. This allowed the transversal I needed to kill them. But if could keep the point (either becasue of a nos or a cap booster or whatever) there was nothing to do.

As far as the ehp you may have a point. I do think the gap should be closed a bit though. And I really don't think carriers should be nerfed as they are not used that often either.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#6 - 2017-01-31 22:07:47 UTC
I'm open to battleships getting more ehp and deeps, but only to set them apart from other ships. Ones that should probably be nerfed.

Nope to e-war resist and nope to burst mod. Battleships have enough special mods, and they are meant to be vulnerable to frigs.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2017-01-31 22:28:42 UTC
Cearain wrote:
A few ideas I was thinking about with battleships. The problem as I see it is once you are scrammed and even if you have a single tracking disruptor you are basically unable to do any damage to any frigates or t3ds inside range. This is true even if you have one grappler web and 1 regular web.


BBs are very powerful ships with high dps alpha and ehp as well as lots of utility. to counter this they are made vulnerable to smaller ships so as to require a support fleet when fielding them.

also if you decide to give up your high dps and alpha you can hit a frig just as easy as a frig can hit a frig
Quote:

1) some sort of ewar resistance. Say 50%.


ship classes already have this built into them for example frigs have scan res resistance from their higher scan res. BBs have ECM and targeting range resistance

Quote:

2) A new module that works as an afterburner burst. The idea is that it would give your battleship the ability to pulse for a high rate of speed say somewhere around 600% speed boost but it does so for only one cycle. It then has a spool up timer. It would be immune to scrams and should have some immunity to webs as well. Maybe webs cap out to make it only 400% speed boost. The idea is that the battle ship pilot can use this to momentarilly gain some transversal and at least get a few good shots off to possibly kill some of the smaller stuff instead of just always being a sitting duck. I don't really know all the details or numbers here but you get the idea.


again if you have a fleet hitting small ships is no issue and if you give up dps hitting small ships is no issue
Quote:

3) they should get a hp buff. The increase in ehp between BS and carriers should be comparable to the ehp increase between BS and bcs.


no... no it should not. what the hell is your justification for this?

carriers have high EHP because they are gimped when it comes to active tanking their high EHP is also one of the only things they have over Dreads




bottom line it seems you don't understand how to use BBs and just want them to be as powerful as your mind thinks something called a BB should be

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#8 - 2017-01-31 22:30:00 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
I'm open to battleships getting more ehp and deeps, but only to set them apart from other ships. Ones that should probably be nerfed.




i think those ships just need to be nerfed... >.> ccp keeps teasing that it's coming

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#9 - 2017-01-31 22:33:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Cearain wrote:
They don't have to be fit for the fight. Your guns won't hit them.





when you realize op has no understanding of the game


example one


example two

example three

example four


do you need more

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Van Doe
#10 - 2017-01-31 22:55:27 UTC
Cearain wrote:

2) A new module that works as an afterburner burst

The module you are looking for is called overheat

I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy. afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#11 - 2017-02-01 02:06:53 UTC
There was some (brief) discussion about extending a fixed warp core strength to battleships and possibly battlecruisers (right around the time these changes were implemented to capitals).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Wolfgang Jannesen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2017-02-01 13:23:50 UTC
OP you've basically described a marauder that uses a MWD instead of a MJD to get around, EWAR resistance and all.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#13 - 2017-02-01 16:43:13 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Cearain wrote:
They don't have to be fit for the fight. Your guns won't hit them.





when you realize op has no understanding of the game


example one


example two

example three

example four


do you need more



Four fights wow. The first was a smart bombing bs and the attacking frigates went in close range. I love how you show a smart bomb battle ship in response to a post I made saying their guns won't hit frigates. The next was station games. I didn't bother with the third or fourth because they are just anecdotal anyway.

Instead of posting a few videos over years of eve where someone may have had a good fight why don't you look at less anecdotal information.

In any case, if BSs are really being used allot because they are so awesome then great. I agree that my suggestions are bad.

But anyway I am just explaining why I do not use them in low sec. And what I would want to see before I was convinced they would be useful.


And for the other players who responded, overheat won't get your ab to boost your speed 600%. Also mwds shut off when you are scrammed and you will be scrammed quickly in low sec.

And no one is talking about Black birds so I don't know why someone keeps mentioning "BBs."

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2017-02-01 17:07:33 UTC
Cearain wrote:
And no one is talking about Black birds so I don't know why someone keeps mentioning "BBs."

BB is the standard US Navy abbreviation for a Battleship. In Eve though it means Blackbird.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#15 - 2017-02-01 17:15:27 UTC
If you want to hit small ships fit small guns

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Cade Windstalker
#16 - 2017-02-01 19:24:31 UTC
Cearain wrote:
A few ideas I was thinking about with battleships. The problem as I see it is once you are scrammed and even if you have a single tracking disruptor you are basically unable to do any damage to any frigates or t3ds inside range. This is true even if you have one grappler web and 1 regular web.


Working as intended?

Also, problems with this scenario: First off, you're mixing grapplers and regular webs. That's basically pointless, you'd be better off with a grappler and a scram or even a point. The grappler already gets the target down to 85% speed reduction at optimal range and the web only brings that up to around 91% or so.

Second, you're probably doing a pretty poor job of piloting your ship. If someone gets close and you have a grappler then you should be able to match their speed and trajectory and nail them. If they're orbiting out at range they probably aren't doing much damage to you and an active tank should be able to soak it. A scrammed frigate is still going to be slower than a BS at close range with a grappler so you can web him and match his velocity at which point your guns will be dealing just about full damage.

If you can't do that, for whatever reason, then congrats you got out-played. Same for if you get swarmed while you're solo.

Cearain wrote:
Instead of posting a few videos over years of eve where someone may have had a good fight why don't you look at less anecdotal information.


Also this is just ironic. You're disputing his anecdotal information with... your own anecdotal information.

Battleships aren't meant to be great at hitting frigates, and the changes you've suggested are just ridiculous. You're annoyed by some things in the game, in this case apparently EWar and your inability to kill small ships that are prepared to fight you in a ship not designed to kill them, and instead of learning what you could do to win that fight or at least give yourself a better chance you're yelling about how Battleships are a worthless class (spoiler: they're not) and how the things used to kill you are OP (again: nope) while ignoring suggestions on how to deal with the situation.

The root issue though seems to be that you want Battleships to be amazing at something they're just not, dealing with smaller ships.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#17 - 2017-02-01 20:25:02 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Cearain wrote:
They don't have to be fit for the fight. Your guns won't hit them.





when you realize op has no understanding of the game


example one


example two

example three

example four


do you need more



Four fights wow. The first was a smart bombing bs and the attacking frigates went in close range. I love how you show a smart bomb battle ship in response to a post I made saying their guns won't hit frigates. The next was station games. I didn't bother with the third or fourth because they are just anecdotal anyway.

Instead of posting a few videos over years of eve where someone may have had a good fight why don't you look at less anecdotal information.




your claim was your guns won't hit them

those videos show the guns and weapons of battleships hitting them....

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#18 - 2017-02-01 21:36:00 UTC
Cearain wrote:


But anyway I am just explaining why I do not use them in low sec. And what I would want to see before I was convinced they would be useful.



Cade Windstalker wrote:

Also this is just ironic. You're disputing his anecdotal information with... your own anecdotal information.


Again
I am simply saying why I do not fly battleships in pvp. Sure there may be lots of people flying PVP BSs out there and I am just not seeing them on dscan. CCP should have some statistics. If they are being used allot then fine there is no need to buff them.

Cade Windstalker wrote:

Battleships aren't meant to be great at hitting frigates, and the changes you've suggested are just ridiculous. You're annoyed by some things in the game, in this case apparently EWar and your inability to kill small ships that are prepared to fight you in a ship not designed to kill them, and instead of learning what you could do to win that fight or at least give yourself a better chance you're yelling about how Battleships are a worthless class (spoiler: they're not) and how the things used to kill you are OP (again: nope) while ignoring suggestions on how to deal with the situation.

The root issue though seems to be that you want Battleships to be amazing at something they're just not, dealing with smaller ships.



I am not saying they have to be "amazing" at dealing with smaller ships. But whatever you are not actually addressing my points and I don't feel like bickering.

As far as your indication of speed a tech 2 web and grappler will bring the speed down to about a 93% decrease. That means it will be going about half as fast as it was going with a 85% reduction. Dropping the targets ships speed down half is useful when you are trying to track. And yes you should have a point on the ship as well.Roll

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2017-02-01 21:44:09 UTC
Cearain wrote:


Again
I am simply saying why I do not fly battleships in pvp. Sure there may be lots of people flying PVP BSs out there and I am just not seeing them on dscan. CCP should have some statistics. If they are being used allot then fine there is no need to buff them.


Well, just about every null group has at least one battleship doctrine on the books, does that count?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#20 - 2017-02-01 21:45:14 UTC
to be honest the fact that a BB can deal with a frigate at all is more than they need. Right now a properly supported BB can one shot a frigate. Its seems that rather than BBs being under powered they just are no the tool for the job you want them to be

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
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