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Militias and NullSeccers

Author
Pieter Tuulinen
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#21 - 2017-01-16 18:43:45 UTC
The idea that someone's job can determine their loyalty to an organisation seldom makes any sense outside the Caldari State, of course, where who you work for IS your nationality. A job is a job, and most people take a job because they need to work in order to pay the bills. Which job they take is usually determined by their qualifications and skill-set. Who they take it with is very dependent on the individuals priorities - and it is here that you can see actual value systems at work, if you drill down.

There are plenty of Militia pilots who signed on for a tour because they wanted to serve their country and they didn't want to do it running missions from agents - that bizzare industry of murderous responses to inflated threats and strange conspiracy theories.

As we age, most capsuleers acquire a hard-bitten cynicism about causes, however, and many of the older militia pilots no longer serve their original nations - plying their skillset in the most advantageous way to themselves. Those people can't be said to be inherently more loyal than even even the most savage nullseccer. Capsuleers being capsuleers, of course, many militia pilots come to this mercenary phase by skipping over the intiial loyalist phase - never once serving out of patriotism.

Some corporations in nullsec maintain their ties to one of the nations. Planting a loyalist flag in space that was never owned by that nation is a good way of demonstrating loyalty to that nation, and certain organisations of this type have even been officially recognised by the nation in question. Other pilots in nullsec live and work in that region on 'deployments' and return to the cultural bosom of their nation between those deployments - returning to family and friends, making contributions to charities and maintaining their cultural ties and identities. Not quite Loyalists, anymore, but identifiably still belonging to their nations. I'd argue that those pilots should still be counted with the Loyalists as being 'Caldari', 'Amarrian', 'Matari' or 'Gallente'.

Then there are those who have been out there long enough that those cultural ties have atrophied to the point where they are little more than habits. Those who form new nations beyond the fringe of the settled nations. Those who spurn the whole concept of nations - warbands, crews and staff.

Personally I've always viewed such groups as being inferior to Nation states. They are as ephemeral as the ancient bands - forming around leaders or causes, persisting for a time and then breaking up and moving on to new leaders and new causes. Some of these pilots are true believers and will passionately argue that a few routines, memes and in-jokes are the equal to millennia of cultural development. Some are simply in it for the ability to sate their appetites for treasure, blood and the ability to carve out some territory where they can make the rules.

Generally speaking, though, anyone can be a Loyalist - all you have to do is to be Loyal. That doesn't mean you have to wear a uniform as much as it means identifying yourself as a member of a nation and putting the needs of that nation before your own needs, from time to time. Very few nations demand that you take vows of celibacy and poverty. Most demand that you contribute - so find a way to contribute and hold your head up high.

And the void to anyone who tells you that you're 'No true X'.


For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2017-01-16 20:25:32 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

And the void to anyone who tells you that you're 'No true X'.


No true X would use X!
Pieter Tuulinen
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#23 - 2017-01-16 22:03:12 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

And the void to anyone who tells you that you're 'No true X'.


No true X would use X!


To the void with you!

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#24 - 2017-01-16 23:20:34 UTC
A traitor? Well... yes, I sort of am. I am not with my people and I'm not fighting for them in our space. There's a lot of excuses thrown around to justify going your own way in this thread, but there's no getting around the fact that this is exactly what we're doing. Some mental acrobatics aren't going to change that out here in nullsec or Weird Space we are exactly what we appear to be. Slaughtering each other's crews for space, bloodlust or money while benefiting our own people pretty much exactly sod all.

There's no point trying to pretend we're justified in these things. Just nut up and be honest that we're doing these things for our own reasons and that we've largely abandoned our people and home in the process. That some of us might potentially benefit them eventually is of course a possibility, but that frankly does not count.

We've left them behind.

However, I can tell you why that is, for what I suspect - but of course can't prove - is a significant number of us: There's no real alternative. You can go pretend you're something other than a gladiator in a pendulum bloodsport over in the militias or maybe do agent work shedding what I'm sure are actual freighterloads of blood, but neither of those actually achieve anything. You can go manufacture countless ships, modules, ammunition or whatever else and pay some taxes, and yet that all goes to other capsuleers. There is, in fact, so very little you actually can do for your people as a capsuleer this side of funneling ISK into baseliner economies that it's downright ridiculous.

We capsuleers are in a system where we've been surgically cut off from actually being able to affect and aid our nations or people, to the point where 'loyalists' fervently pretend they can affect something other than other capsuleers just to avoid having to face that truth.

Anyone who actually knows me should be well aware that I only have two real priorities in my life. My people among the Gripdjur and my people still chained in the Empire. And through CONCORD and other such means of control, my very own nation has bound me and the rest of you so we can't do anything for them outside of illegally funneling funds to an economy that isn't ours.

We have left our nations and people behind because we have all the power in New Eden and no one but each other to use it against. So here we are, honing our skills, fighting each other out in the void over space, blood, money and pride. And some of us... I wonder just how many... are simply biding our time for when the day comes we actually can affect some change.

What else happens when you're so cleanly cut off from mattering to your own?
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Heiian Conglomerate
#25 - 2017-01-16 23:50:44 UTC
Moved out to null a couple of times. I don't think that I am a traitor, or a deserter(as Kim suggested), it was a learning experience and nothing more then that. I had some fun out there, shot down a couple of carriers, and enjoyed a couple of months learning how to avoid drag bubbles.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.

Rook Moray
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2017-01-19 01:28:26 UTC
Nah. Not me.

I mean, if people in Intaki ever got back to really trying to kick the Federation (and the State) out, then yeah I suppose I'd earn the title on a Federal level. But I'm Guristas through and through. **ck politics in the ear. I like where I'm at nowadays.




“When you want to know how things really work, study them when they're coming apart.” -Guristas Proverb.

Luna Hanaya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2017-01-21 16:10:47 UTC
One doesn't have to be a Crusader to be Amarr.

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Kalaratiri
Project Valhalla.
The Initiative.
#28 - 2017-01-21 18:10:34 UTC
I'm almost certainly considered a traitor.

My Capsuleer career began in Gradient, an old and long term ally of the Republic. Then a few Minmatar Militia groups with personal friends. My first four years as a Capsuleer was spent in either direct of indirect service of the Republic and the Tribes.

Then I stopped.

I spent time in Curse and Metropolis with the Angels. This is where my eyes were opened.

I spent a year in the Amarr Militia with PYRE, and was present for the Amarr victory over every system in the Warzone. This is where I joined the Cartel and truly left the Nation of my birth behind.

Since leaving PYRE, I've roamed around various pirate groups and now find myself at home in Hard Knocks.

I like it here. It's quiet in wormholes.

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim

Torii Adore
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#29 - 2017-01-24 22:09:23 UTC
Um...no.

At lest not yet?

I don't have any particular treachery on my item-action list at the moment.

Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind.

LouHodo
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#30 - 2017-01-25 20:35:56 UTC
I consider myself to be a space age privateer, much like my fellow capsuleers. We no longer work for a set government, we put in our time early in our careers paying back the institution that gives us our start, but after that we are on our own. Most of us make a decent life for ourselves, others like myself, struggle from job to job.

Pieter Tuulinen
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#31 - 2017-01-25 23:06:08 UTC
I mistrust anyone who claims to speak on behalf of 'all capsuleers'.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Ragged Starkiller
Minmatar Secret Service
Ushra'Khan
#32 - 2017-01-30 02:41:41 UTC
As a pilot from gallentian origin I moved to the faction warfare area to fight for freedom and liberty ... STOP AMARR, STOP SLAVERY.
Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing Yi
#33 - 2017-01-30 04:22:02 UTC
Ragged Starkiller wrote:
As a pilot from gallentian origin I moved to the faction warfare area to fight for freedom and liberty ... STOP AMARR, STOP SLAVERY.

You're not going to stop it that way.
Diana Kim
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#34 - 2017-01-30 04:58:24 UTC
Ragged Starkiller wrote:
As a pilot from gallentian origin I moved to the faction warfare area to fight for freedom and liberty ... STOP AMARR, STOP SLAVERY.

I'd prefer to call to STOP HYPOCRISY AND STOP BULLYING.
1. Amarr slavery is an INTERNAL matter of Amarr Empire. Anyone who tries to fight the Empire becuase of their internal business are just freaking BULLIES, who shall be destroyed without mercy and regret.
2. While in the Amarr Empire slavery is legal, there exist some illegal slavery groups. And one of the largest illegal slavery groups resides in the Minmatar space and consists of Minmatar citizen. It has a name of Angel Cartel. While Minmatar try to fight slavery in other empires forgetting about their own, it is an outrageous example of hypocrisy.

Stop minmatars! Stop illegal slavery by Angel Cartel.

Oh, and also, fighting for freedom is a lunacy and fanatism. Disgusting.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Ragged Starkiller
Minmatar Secret Service
Ushra'Khan
#35 - 2017-01-30 11:03:57 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Ragged Starkiller wrote:
As a pilot from gallentian origin I moved to the faction warfare area to fight for freedom and liberty ... STOP AMARR, STOP SLAVERY.

I'd prefer to call to STOP HYPOCRISY AND STOP BULLYING.
1. Amarr slavery is an INTERNAL matter of Amarr Empire. Anyone who tries to fight the Empire becuase of their internal business are just freaking BULLIES, who shall be destroyed without mercy and regret.
2. While in the Amarr Empire slavery is legal, there exist some illegal slavery groups. And one of the largest illegal slavery groups resides in the Minmatar space and consists of Minmatar citizen. It has a name of Angel Cartel. While Minmatar try to fight slavery in other empires forgetting about their own, it is an outrageous example of hypocrisy.

Stop minmatars! Stop illegal slavery by Angel Cartel.

Oh, and also, fighting for freedom is a lunacy and fanatism. Disgusting.


I recovered an ancient relic from old times, called human rights declaration. It states all freedoms an rights of our race. Amarr society is breaking those rights. The only way I allow slavery is if slaves actually want to be slaves.

Minmatar Republic is against angel cartel as well... it's only a matter of time to cleanse our space from those slavers too ... and as you are from Caldary State, you should know better about hypocrisy.

Bullin you say ... dont make me laugh.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#36 - 2017-01-30 11:17:55 UTC
Oh spirits below, you'd think the people in charge would have at least muzzled or leashed the ones that far gone into capsuleer dementia.
Diana Kim
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#37 - 2017-01-30 11:59:22 UTC
Ragged Starkiller wrote:

I recovered an ancient relic from old times, called human rights declaration. It states all freedoms an rights of our race. Amarr society is breaking those rights. The only way I allow slavery is if slaves actually want to be slaves.

If ancestors have buried it so long ago, it's was for a reason. It is quite unwise to follow their mistakes, and better put it back where you found that and leave it buried in the dirt where it does belong.

Ragged Starkiller wrote:

Minmatar Republic is against angel cartel as well... it's only a matter of time to cleanse our space from those slavers too ... and as you are from Caldary State, you should know better about hypocrisy.

Then go back to your Republic and don't say a word about slavery in other places until there's at least one Angel running around on freedom somewhere.

Ragged Starkiller wrote:

Bullin you say ... dont make me laugh.

Yes, bullying. Just as you despise slavery, we despise depravity and running around naked in public, showing as much skin as people in the Republic do. Imagine us declaring war on Republic and invading, killing underdressed people, catching other and forcibly putting clothes on them. That's the same what Republic does to Amarr Empire with slavery.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Ragged Starkiller
Minmatar Secret Service
Ushra'Khan
#38 - 2017-01-30 16:12:32 UTC
Quote:
Yes, bullying. Just as you despise slavery, we despise depravity and running around naked in public, showing as much skin as people in the Republic do. Imagine us declaring war on Republic and invading, killing underdressed people, catching other and forcibly putting clothes on them. That's the same what Republic does to Amarr Empire with slavery.



RUNNING AROUND NAKED RULZ!!!!

Our body is holy, for we should be proud of it. :D
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
Jayai Syndicate
#39 - 2017-01-30 16:14:55 UTC
Ragged Starkiller wrote:

Minmatar Republic is against angel cartel as well... it's only a matter of time to cleanse our space from those slavers too ... and as you are from Caldary State, you should know better about hypocrisy.

While you are fighting for the freedom and liberty, don't forget to check whose assets you are defending in those plexes, broaden your perspective so to say.
Saille Horo'Sha
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#40 - 2017-01-30 22:52:11 UTC
You know what, I think I'll just stay out here in NullSec. Empire space is weird now that I'm on the outside looking in.

If I'm not fighting for an ideology, I don't need to worry about it being the wrong ideology.

I barely have the ISK to keep myself flying. I'm a terrible pilot. I'm an even worse businesswoman. I'm not even sure what half my ship's controls are for. But in some small way, I'm helping. And I couldn't be happier.

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