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low-sec belts

Author
shal ri
Short Bus Window Licker
#61 - 2012-01-20 16:42:21 UTC
heres a funny thought. ever thing that low sec is bloby because of u null retards? ( o/ cva and friends i see u still cant do pvp without a hot drop ) the only conunter to this is to do the same and u wonder y we pirates blob. heres another thought, those pirates that blob like its null are not that good at pvp. ever solo them or fight in a small gang? yea they die. really fast.

as for reducing the dmg of gate guns for frig fights. thats just ********. frigs are for belts planets and places with no gates/ stations. it would only lead to faster lock times and death to nealry ever ship that jump into low sec. as much as i would like to **** cloaky haulers, it would make for a logistic horror. i would rather kill those cloakies on the undock with a dessy. it alot funnier to see gate guns shoot me and watch the prowler die at the same time.

gates guns doin more dmg? this solves nothing just means bigger camps with more snipe ships that leaves u with even more to complain about.
FW space. more blobs then null, but at the same token they also suck in small gang warfare. just a general opinion.

what do blobs mostly do if they want a kill. they titian bridge on to targets. i would like to say remove titian bridging from low sec but it would affect null sec in a negitive way in terms of moving ships quickly. but the last time i shot at a tempest in my tengu he hot dropped 30 some odd ppl to kill 2 ships that they failed to kill anyway.

it does make for more of a challenge tho, so i just laugh when they fail and to pull the kill and laugh when i pull a kill after gettin dropped by 30 ppl.
so wat needs to change? the player not the game.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#62 - 2012-01-20 17:23:57 UTC
shal ri wrote:
heres a funny thought. ever thing that low sec is bloby because of u null retards? ( o/ cva and friends i see u still cant do pvp without a hot drop ) the only conunter to this is to do the same and u wonder y we pirates blob. heres another thought, those pirates that blob like its null are not that good at pvp. ever solo them or fight in a small gang? yea they die. really fast.

as for reducing the dmg of gate guns for frig fights. thats just ********. frigs are for belts planets and places with no gates/ stations. it would only lead to faster lock times and death to nealry ever ship that jump into low sec. as much as i would like to **** cloaky haulers, it would make for a logistic horror. i would rather kill those cloakies on the undock with a dessy. it alot funnier to see gate guns shoot me and watch the prowler die at the same time.

gates guns doin more dmg? this solves nothing just means bigger camps with more snipe ships that leaves u with even more to complain about.
FW space. more blobs then null, but at the same token they also suck in small gang warfare. just a general opinion.

what do blobs mostly do if they want a kill. they titian bridge on to targets. i would like to say remove titian bridging from low sec but it would affect null sec in a negitive way in terms of moving ships quickly. but the last time i shot at a tempest in my tengu he hot dropped 30 some odd ppl to kill 2 ships that they failed to kill anyway.

it does make for more of a challenge tho, so i just laugh when they fail and to pull the kill and laugh when i pull a kill after gettin dropped by 30 ppl.
so wat needs to change? the player not the game.

Getting titan bridged is annoying, but it's usually not too hard to avoid in a decent ship. Just burn away when the cyno pops, it's not like the cyno pilot can chase you to keep the point on you.

Anyway, half the fun in eve is trying to blob people whilst not getting blobbed yourself. As for those that blob not being good solo, I wouldn't be so sure. Just because people like to blob doesn't necessarily mean they're bad at soloing if they have to.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Miregar Shakor
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2012-01-20 17:38:30 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
I always believed it should be the only area you can use to pull your sec status up from negative status. The logic being Concord don't monitor null sec so shouldn't be paying bounties issuing sec rewards out there, and criminal acts anywhere in empire should be acquitted by doing ones time fighting (NPC) piracy in low sec empire.

Benefits:
+ It's not counterable with the usual carebear whine "you just want more shinies to shoot", since it only entices criminals.
+ (very) Moderate nerf to suicide ganking as you have to make up for your crimes with some time spent in low sec, but introduces high sec 'PVP'ers to low sec.
+ 0.0 residents can't just hide in deep null to get their standings up in complete safety.
+ General increase of activity in low sec and a reason to go there (for some).
+ Those visiting to raise sec are obviously PVPers so greater potential for finding small engagements there, and not just 'trying to populate low sec with shiny PVE fit carebears'.

~ repeating myself now so will leave it at that.

EDITED: I didn't mean to suggest removing null rat bounties, just the sec gain.

+1
Plutonian
Intransigent
#64 - 2012-01-20 17:49:26 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Plutonian wrote:
*snip*]

No, it wouldn't work. A cane with slaves can get nearly 100k ehp, and still fit a sebo, so unless gateguns were so badass they were a threat to gangs with that kind of EHP it would make very little difference.

Even then, you'd just see an increase in the number of camps with pimped out 200k ehp T3s and logistics support.

The "solution" to low sec gate camps and getting new players into low sec has never been about creating more rewards (if you are any good, low sec is already pretty damn profitable) it's about teaching new players to use scouts and only fly cloaked ships. At the moment an experienced player will only fly around in cloaked T3s, transports etc. In contrast noobs complain about getting ganked coz they just jumped in blind in a badly fitted battlecruiser.


You're quite right. It was a 'Hmmm.... What If?' idea.

I should probably keep those to myself. Lol
OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
#65 - 2012-01-20 18:01:40 UTC
I love the "move all L4s to Low!" crowd. All that means is that people will start chaining L3s and doing more explo and/or quitting. Carebears hate PVP (trust me, I know) and will avoid it at all costs. Nothing is going to force bears into low. They are generally bad at PVP and have no interest in getting better, especially the solo ones who have no interest in joining roams/PVP corps. I'm generally a carebear, but I'm pretty adventurous, I will go do lowsec explo, even some lowsec missioning, but I really hate getting ganked. I'm pretty terribad at PVP, but getting better would require putting a lot of effort into learning to do it better, and I would still get torched by gangs, as I don't have time for the 45 minute wait for a fleet.

In my lowsec travels, I have to agree with the earlier poster, I've gone days without seeing anyone but my fellow bears. I have found a general cool group of people out in low, but the raging "OMFG we are leet PVPars!" blobs just make us dock up or SS and logoffski. If you want more action in Low, lose the blobs. Otherwise the only fights you are going to get are with other blobs on the gate. No amount of hi-sec nerf will "force" bears into low, it has to be something to make them want to go there.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#66 - 2012-01-20 18:16:26 UTC
OllieNorth wrote:
I love the "move all L4s to Low!" crowd. All that means is that people will start chaining L3s and doing more explo and/or quitting. Carebears hate PVP (trust me, I know) and will avoid it at all costs. Nothing is going to force bears into low. They are generally bad at PVP and have no interest in getting better, especially the solo ones who have no interest in joining roams/PVP corps. I'm generally a carebear, but I'm pretty adventurous, I will go do lowsec explo, even some lowsec missioning, but I really hate getting ganked. I'm pretty terribad at PVP, but getting better would require putting a lot of effort into learning to do it better, and I would still get torched by gangs, as I don't have time for the 45 minute wait for a fleet.

In my lowsec travels, I have to agree with the earlier poster, I've gone days without seeing anyone but my fellow bears. I have found a general cool group of people out in low, but the raging "OMFG we are leet PVPars!" blobs just make us dock up or SS and logoffski. If you want more action in Low, lose the blobs. Otherwise the only fights you are going to get are with other blobs on the gate. No amount of hi-sec nerf will "force" bears into low, it has to be something to make them want to go there.

To be honest, the whole nerf high sec thing isn't about forcing bears into low. We know they won't come anyway, those that are willing to risk their ships for more ISK are here already.

The problem is two fold, for one thing we want a reason to be where we are. I mean, what is the point in fighting over territory or risking your ship when what you are fighting for is no longer of value? This is the way Eve has always been, null>low>high in terms of profitability. It is the reason we fight, the reason we fly around low sec and scout so obsessively or wage wars over entire regions in null. To have a high ISK income source given out for free, with no risks required in acquiring it just takes away the fun.

The other side is that of people using assets gained through high sec activities to finance ships and wars that are not used in high sec. This means you cannot attack an enemy alliance's profit stream, and whilst it isn't usually much of an issue when that profit can amount to billions a day per person it becomes less comical. (Ok, not many people make billions a day in HS. But it's not that hard, I know a lot of people who dual box incursions and I presume it isn't particularly rare. I might be wrong though.)

tl;dr: We aren't trying to drag carebears kicking and screaming into low sec. For the most part, we don't care about the genuine HS carebears at all.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Plutonian
Intransigent
#67 - 2012-01-20 18:25:37 UTC
Stalking Mantis wrote:
Plutonian wrote:
@Smiling Menace:

I believe Eve needs a PvP outlet that doesn't require the responsibilities of nullsec. Currently, unless you're willing to wardec innocent non-PvP'ers in Empire (which I'd never do) or can-flip miners (which I'd also never do) or suffer the artificial-ality of duels (is that even a word?), you go to lowsec for a good fight. That's what CCP needs to focus on when dealing with the area.




They do have that it is called faction warfare. You saying that tells me you never tried it thus you think that outlet is not available.


I did try it for a couple of weeks, but was shocked to find it seemed more about PvE stuff than PvP. There were big fleets running around, but I tend to prefer solo or micro-gang stuff. But all that was back in 2008, and perhaps things have changed.

In any case, Grog Drinker, in another thread, makes a very good point; signing up for any faction reduces your targets when compared to staying on the outside and engaging anyone looking for a fight.

And to be clear, when I say CCP should focus on lowsec as an area which should provide good fights, I'm not just talking about the pirate/solo game... I'd hope they fix the things with FW too. Anything that gets more combat-seeking, non-cap-flying, small-gang pilots into lowsec is a good thing in my book.
Grog Drinker
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2012-01-20 20:17:26 UTC
I have no problem with the amount of damage gate guns do now. I still get fights on gates all the time when someone chooses to engage me first.

I would like the lock time of gate guns to be put back to what it was before they buffed it. Currently its a giant pain to fly lightly tanked frigs because you will get popped on gates before you can warp off. After fights now I usually have to warp to a deep and sit around for 15 minutes before I can continue playing.

If they gate guns took a couple of seconds to lock me it wouldn't effect my ability to fight on gates but it would take most of the down time out of solo roaming.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#69 - 2012-01-20 21:10:46 UTC
Plutonian wrote:
Jude Lloyd wrote:
About 6 months ago, I could roam the surrounding systems of Amamake in my Merlin, hopping from belt to belt... and I would find 5 or more targets/fights in a half hour of play time. Now, it's just not the same. Even the amount of frigate traffic in Amamake's belts is half of what it use to be.

I hope lowsec turns around soon.


Well, you'll probably be seeing more AF targets soon. Sadly, their buff will thin out the already scant T1 frigs and cruisers. Until CCP revisits those expect long roams with few targets. Sad


The best thing they could do to increase the number of t1 frigates is decrease the scan resolution of destroyers. It's foolish to take t1 frigates out when destroyers can lock you and 2 volley you so easilly.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#70 - 2012-01-20 21:16:54 UTC
Plutonian wrote:
Stalking Mantis wrote:
Plutonian wrote:
@Smiling Menace:

I believe Eve needs a PvP outlet that doesn't require the responsibilities of nullsec. Currently, unless you're willing to wardec innocent non-PvP'ers in Empire (which I'd never do) or can-flip miners (which I'd also never do) or suffer the artificial-ality of duels (is that even a word?), you go to lowsec for a good fight. That's what CCP needs to focus on when dealing with the area.




They do have that it is called faction warfare. You saying that tells me you never tried it thus you think that outlet is not available.


I did try it for a couple of weeks, but was shocked to find it seemed more about PvE stuff than PvP. There were big fleets running around, but I tend to prefer solo or micro-gang stuff. But all that was back in 2008, and perhaps things have changed.

In any case, Grog Drinker, in another thread, makes a very good point; signing up for any faction reduces your targets when compared to staying on the outside and engaging anyone looking for a fight.

And to be clear, when I say CCP should focus on lowsec as an area which should provide good fights, I'm not just talking about the pirate/solo game... I'd hope they fix the things with FW too. Anything that gets more combat-seeking, non-cap-flying, small-gang pilots into lowsec is a good thing in my book.



I agree frequent quality small scale pvp should be a priority for low sec generally and fw in particular.

BTW you can use fw plexes to help you get decent fights in low sec. Just open them in a busy system and don't actually run them.(move away from the button) That way the rats won't attack you and you can fight others as they come in.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Christina Trild
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#71 - 2012-01-20 22:26:35 UTC
Theres a difference between low and highsecShockedShockedShockedShocked
Hmm I don't happen to notice
Plutonian
Intransigent
#72 - 2012-01-21 00:52:28 UTC
Cearain wrote:
BTW you can use fw plexes to help you get decent fights in low sec. Just open them in a busy system and don't actually run them.(move away from the button) That way the rats won't attack you and you can fight others as they come in.


Can you do this even though you're not enrolled in FW?
shal ri
Short Bus Window Licker
#73 - 2012-01-23 22:20:04 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Plutonian wrote:
Jude Lloyd wrote:
About 6 months ago, I could roam the surrounding systems of Amamake in my Merlin, hopping from belt to belt... and I would find 5 or more targets/fights in a half hour of play time. Now, it's just not the same. Even the amount of frigate traffic in Amamake's belts is half of what it use to be.

I hope lowsec turns around soon.


Well, you'll probably be seeing more AF targets soon. Sadly, their buff will thin out the already scant T1 frigs and cruisers. Until CCP revisits those expect long roams with few targets. Sad


The best thing they could do to increase the number of t1 frigates is decrease the scan resolution of destroyers. It's foolish to take t1 frigates out when destroyers can lock you and 2 volley you so easilly.



thats the whole point of dessies. its an anti frig ship. thats its role and it does it very well. plus if ur in a t1 or t2 frig u should be pickin ur targets not flying in with ur head chopped off. not hard to do.
Amber Thetawaves
Mong's Marauders
#74 - 2012-01-24 14:01:38 UTC
Smodab Ongalot wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
why should anybody care about lowsec except lowseccers?

Did CCP organize 0.0 alliances? Maybe it is CCP made 0.0 corps, put POSes and jump-bridges, built outposts and grinded industry and military levels in 0.0??? Nope. 0.0 people made it all.

lowseccers can only kill and destruct. That's why you have nothing interesting for people to come to you. And you cry "CCP! CCP! CCP!"



You are the most worthless piece of **** I've seen in some time on these forums. You seem to be in complete ignorance of your total lack of understanding regarding, well, anything really.

To answer your first question, no CCP did not make the 0.0 alliances, but they did give you your sov mechanics, they gave you POSes, JB's, Outposts, and all the other things you have. Without CCP creating that content for you, you'd be sitting in space in your ship with nothing to do.

Sort of like low-sec.

Lets see, in low-sec we have....... Ice belts? Naw, can find those in high & null..... Medium level minerals? Naw... You can get that from drones (you should know this you ******* botting ******). Oh, I know, we have level 5 missions! That's pretty much about it....

And tbh, with incursions, who the **** wants to run level 5s?


Why don't you just concentrate on your botting and RMTing and leave the forum posting to those of us with some modicum of intelligence.



im with smo
X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
#75 - 2012-01-24 14:42:08 UTC
Plutonian wrote:

Can you do this even though you're not enrolled in FW?
Yes.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#76 - 2012-01-24 15:16:47 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Plutonian wrote:

Can you do this even though you're not enrolled in FW?
Yes.



If they are already open you certainly can.

But I'm not sure if you can scan them. Just hit your on ship system scanner and see if some pop up. The busier the system the better.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#77 - 2012-01-24 15:26:12 UTC
shal ri wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Plutonian wrote:
Jude Lloyd wrote:
About 6 months ago, I could roam the surrounding systems of Amamake in my Merlin, hopping from belt to belt... and I would find 5 or more targets/fights in a half hour of play time. Now, it's just not the same. Even the amount of frigate traffic in Amamake's belts is half of what it use to be.

I hope lowsec turns around soon.


Well, you'll probably be seeing more AF targets soon. Sadly, their buff will thin out the already scant T1 frigs and cruisers. Until CCP revisits those expect long roams with few targets. Sad


The best thing they could do to increase the number of t1 frigates is decrease the scan resolution of destroyers. It's foolish to take t1 frigates out when destroyers can lock you and 2 volley you so easilly.



thats the whole point of dessies. its an anti frig ship. thats its role and it does it very well. plus if ur in a t1 or t2 frig u should be pickin ur targets not flying in with ur head chopped off. not hard to do.



Thats my point. Due to their high scan resolution you can't choose to avoid them.

If they decreased the scan resolution you might be able to pick not to engage a thrasher on a gate. But because the sensorboosted thrashers are practically instalocking you are screwed even in a t1 frigate.

I think the point of dessies is to kill off smaller ships. But I don't think the point is for them to be instalocking gate camp monsters that make it foolish to even try to roam in a t1 frigate. Just drop the scan res to be in the middle between frigates and cruisers so they can't catch frigates that are just trying to warp to the next gate.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#78 - 2012-01-24 15:31:03 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Thats my point. Due to their high scan resolution you can't choose to avoid them.

If they decreased the scan resolution you might be able to pick not to engage a thrasher on a gate. But because the sensorboosted thrashers are practically instalocking you are screwed even in a t1 frigate.

I think the point of dessies is to kill off smaller ships. But I don't think the point is for them to be instalocking gate camp monsters that make it foolish to even try to roam in a t1 frigate. Just drop the scan res to be in the middle between frigates and cruisers so they can't catch frigates that are just trying to warp to the next gate.

This kind of boils down to "I want to be invincible". In a frigate that costs a few million. Seriously?

If you want that, fly a covert ops and hope you don't run in to a camp spiked with drones/cans.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#79 - 2012-01-24 15:48:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Thats my point. Due to their high scan resolution you can't choose to avoid them.

If they decreased the scan resolution you might be able to pick not to engage a thrasher on a gate. But because the sensorboosted thrashers are practically instalocking you are screwed even in a t1 frigate.

I think the point of dessies is to kill off smaller ships. But I don't think the point is for them to be instalocking gate camp monsters that make it foolish to even try to roam in a t1 frigate. Just drop the scan res to be in the middle between frigates and cruisers so they can't catch frigates that are just trying to warp to the next gate.

This kind of boils down to "I want to be invincible". In a frigate that costs a few million. Seriously?

If you want that, fly a covert ops and hope you don't run in to a camp spiked with drones/cans.



I hardly think decreasing the scan resolution of destroyers would make t1 frigates "invincible." I do think it would make flying t1 frigates a reasonable option again though.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#80 - 2012-01-24 21:38:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
There are plenty of great ideas here to increase activity/traffic in low sec. I like lady spanks idea.

But the real problem is not the content in low sec but the residents. It has become a gankers haven.

Most low sec pirates are not looking for real PVP but just looking for victims. That is not PVP it is ganking. Most low sec pirates only start fights they know they can win. Why do you think there are so few pirates in the low sec systems that are part of the pipes to null sec. They do not want to fight people that know how to fight back.

These are the same type players that run around the PVP servers in other MMO's Ganking players 10-15 levels below them.

There is no fun for a carebear or new player to try to learn to PVP if every time they jump into low sec they get annihilated by a gang 5 times the size it would need to be to guarantee victory.

All you are doing is teaching these players to stay clear of those systems. No amount of content is going to get players into low sec if they can not play that content without getting ganked. Low sec is supposed to be dangerous, but not a guaranteed suicide run.

Adding content that will force carebears into low sec will not work. Carebears will quite the game before they will partake in forced content that forces them to become the victims of gankers with no chance of survival.

If you want victims then you need to stick to low sec systems on major pipes into low sec. But then you will be fighting experienced null sec players that will possibly kick your a$$.

There is nothing sadder than a self proclaimed PVPer complaining about a lack of PVP content when the only PVP they are actually interested in is ganking carebears. There is no real skill involved in ganking. it is just what really bad PVPers do to make them selves feel like they are urber PVPers.

When I was living in null our alliance made sure the pipes to high sec where not settled by pirates. Any pirates that came in got a good fight. Had some great PVP with kills and loses on both sides. but the pirates would never stay because fighting null sec PVPers was never a guaranteed win.

If you really want PVP, then stop ganking, and learn to play in a way that is fun for both sides of the battle. If you insist on ganking rather than looking for real fights, than the only possible outcome is that your victims will learn to avoid you and you will soon run out of targets. This is what has happened in most low sec systems. It is not CCP that has ruined low sec, it is the fact that 90% of the PVP in low sec is so one sided that the victims have no chance of even having an enjoyable fight let alone any chance of getting a kill themselves.

PVP content is made by the players not the developers. They give us the tools, but if the PVP is not enjoyable from both sides the players that are not having fun will not keep returning to content they do not have fun playing. They will either find some other content in the game they can enjoy or quit playing all together.

I for one do frequently travel through low sec. But I have learned to avoid the local gankers as every time I have tried to get a good fight going I end up facing at least 10:1 odds and get annihilated. Why would I keep coming back for PVP if I just get poped and poded without hardly getting a shot off. I will not. I will just avoid the fights. This does not make me a carebear it makes me smart. I am not going to fly around low sec just waiting to get ganked just to give the pirates a target.

I do what I need to do and get out. I really enjoy blowing through gate camps in my DST. the ganker tears in local is always worth a few laughs. "WTF we had 4 points on you how did you warp, you hacker!" Well worth the occasional ship I do lose. I guess the gankers do not realize how easy it is to get a DST with a natural +2 warp strength up to +5 or +6 and still have a BS size tank. These are fights I enjoy. A 5-6 ship gate camp when I have as good of a chance of getting through as they do of killing me is enough of a thrill I do not mind being a target. But if I have no chance of survival I will just avoid you and you will have no targets to gank.

One question though. Do low sec pirates enjoy POS bashing? I am not talking about the big corps with caps but the small gank squads that frequent the NON pipe systems. I am thinking of putting up a large POS in a 0.2 system for moon goo refining. according to my calculations I can lose one every 2 months and still make a profit.