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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8481 - 2017-01-26 22:03:51 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
...the issue I keep pointing out first and foremost is the AFK aspect of it and I asked for an AFK flag, a simple fix. That suits me, that person is AFK and should not be interfering with my play when inactive because I cannot interfere with his. How the hell can you bait someone who is AFK, you tell me, you say he can't do anything and yet I cannot bait the toe rag into a trap because he is not even at his keyboard, so none of you can get around that simple fact.

Out of curiosity, how would the game client know that someone is AFK? Quick answer: it can't. All it can know is if a player hasn't made any commands to the client for a certain amount of time, the client has absolutely no way to know if someone is at the keyboard and just watching, or actually AFK doing something else. So, that's the first issue with the AFK flag: it's impossible.

The second iusse with the AFK flag is that it would not make you more safe. But, for sake of argument, let's go down that rabbit hole for a moment and try to do something close to an actual AFK flag. How would you set the AFK flag? After X minutes of no commands to the client you're flagged AFK?

Okay, great. Let's set X to 15 minutes, which makes sense because it's the length of many other timers.

Do you realize how badly that could be gamed? Most cyno traps take at least that long to set up anyways. If I have some idea where you're going to be mining, I warp to that belt and wait, only now I get the benefit of you thinking that I'm AFK after only 15 minutes of waiting so I likely won't have to wait long. You undock, warp back to the spot you were mining in, and I pop a cyno on you while you are utterly convinced that I'm AFK. Without the AFK flag mechanic, you likely wouldn't have even undocked, so your AFK flag just made you less safe.

Oh, that's no good. Let's bump up the timer to 60 minutes. We want to make sure that pilots like me are really AFK, not just faking it.

Your AFK flag just offered you far less protection. For the price of one minute of activity out of sixty, I can still convince you that I'm fully at keyboard and make you even less likely to undock because I'm not flagged AFK. Your AFK flag just made you more likely to stay docked.

Do you understand now why an AFK flag is such a bad idea? It can be gamed just as badly, if not far worse, than AFK cloaking and would potentially make you less safe, not more.


I went through all these points when I raised this idea.

60 minutes, and if you do anything with the client it removes the flag. Of course I know it can be gamed, it is not an I win button but is to give the intelligent player the knowledge about the likely play time of someone who is AFK. But you are thinking that I am thinking about it from the point of view of someone doing stuff ala carebear, not at all I am thinking about it from the point of view of knowing when I can set up my trap, which is the entire point.

Do you get it now?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8482 - 2017-01-26 22:49:56 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Asjo wrote:

So, to move forward in this discussion, I think it's necessary to:

- Recognize that there is a problem in gameplay, even if you don't want it to be fixed.
- Look at the suggested solutions and discuss why they would work and why they would not.

Problem in game play: Local intel is absolute and instant, informing anyone in system that someone has arrived before the person even is able to load the environment.

Solution: delay local for 1~5 minutes.


Sigh, Interceptors are fast warping ships that are immune to bubbles and they move quickly once on grid, people ratting in carriers that are in warp to the site or just arrived are very vulnerable, people ratting with short range ships in belts are vulnerable, that you have given up and taken the easy option of AFK cloaky camping is the issue, in other words your inability to get around local with the tools that you have.

Carriers are intended for fleet play, a solo carrier will die almost every time. They are supposed to be vulnerable, also in null sec you are supposed to be in danger if you aren't able to defend your space.


So you are admitting that you can catch them now without resorting to AFK cloaky camping and that local is not the issue just your inability to use the tools you have.

If a ratting carrier was so easily caught without delayed local then AFK Cloaking would not need to exist.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#8483 - 2017-01-26 23:43:54 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Of course I know it can be gamed, it is not an I win button but is to give the intelligent player the knowledge about the likely play time of someone who is AFK.

No it doesn't.

It gives people in local a piece of information that indicates that a player may be AFK, or may be gaming the AFK flag to their own benefit. There's never any way for the client to really know if the player logged on is AFK or not.

Since you can't really know if a player is AFK or not, implementing an AFK flag would be absolutely no different than the current state of affairs except that players have another mechanic with which to deceive other players.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8484 - 2017-01-27 01:04:19 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
CFC tore apart WN after the aborted headshot of VFK because our corp was given a warchest to buy every single abaddon in every market hub. This meant WN could not replace losses so could not deploy fleets.

The markets are just another tool in war and most of that action was done AFK.

Market trading is PvP. Perfect example given above.
Hauling is PvP. If you're buying goods in Jita and hauling them elsewhere, you're impacting the local market and forcing folks to either lower prices or move their goods elsewhere to sell.
Mining is PvP. The amount of ore you extract impacts the market, either directly by selling it or indirectly by reducing demand. And don't forget the actual direct competition you see when things get crowded like hisec ice belts.

Literally every activity in EvE is PvP.

Even sitting AFK cloaked in an undocked ship 23/7.


Except maybe mission running...which is often considered one of the lowest activities in game.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8485 - 2017-01-27 01:16:19 UTC
Asjo wrote:

What Beeflee Filee points out is that it is not healthy for the gameplay that there is a tactic which allows attackers to easily kill a target as well as limit the ISK mining of rivals, with minimal effort or risk. It doesn't matter the fights are "fair" - the point is that the defender can do very little to guard against the mentioned tactic.


But AFK cloaking does not kill anyone. You cannot die to a cloaked ship, you cannot die to someone who is AFK (okay, there was one case), so dying to an AFK and cloaked ship is not going to happen.

The problem is not "easy kills" the problem is the level of uncertainty that AFK cloaking engenders. That is the problem. "Easy kills" and anything else is just completely irrelevant and not serious.

Quote:
Efforts of the attackers

* Keep AFK cloaked players in various systems of their rival corporation. This could be players who are AFK for days except the time when they decide to go for a kill.

* Using the intel from cloaked players, check if the rival corporation has any fleet of ships assembled to avoid the possible risk of them using cyno defensively.

* Find target to destroy, warp in a significant group of ships through cyno, and destray said target without losses because you outnumber them.


All this comes with a cost though.

Quote:
Efforts of the defenders (for any chance of preventing this tactic)

* Make sure your corporation has a fleet of ships assembled at any time of the week.

* Spot enemy ships and survive long enough to warp in defensively through cyno


As others have noted if you rat in a standing fleet, are on comms, and even fit a cyno of your own and God forbid you actually rate together going from anomaly-to-anomaly and even system-to-system you can help counter the threat of a cloaker and/or a possible drop.

Quote:
Given the above, attackers will know when they can strike safely and don't need to use a lot of time on it (when you want to attack, simply check intel from scans). Meanwhile, defenders would have to spend all their time being ready for the defensive cyno (assuming there is always an enemy registered in local in their system). If you have a corporation of 50 people, it's hardly realistic to assume that they will be online and assembled so often that it would not be possible for attackers to find a risk-free target several times throughout the week.


FFS, this is EVE.

1. You are not entitled to a fair fight.
2. You are not entitled to symmetric information.
3. You are not entitled to avoiding interactions with other players.

If one dude who has put his ship at a safe, cloaked, and walked away from the keyboard can have such an apparently devastating effect on a NS group and you cannot find a work-around. You'll soon have bigger problems than the dude in the cloaking ship.

Quote:
* Allow of method of scanning an area and uncloaking ships that are in the same spot for a long amount of time. If you add this feature, remove local. That means cloaking can be countered (albeit not too effectively), but attackers can more easily find a target because defenders don't have the intel of local.


This feature, based on various Dev statements and comments, may very well be the route that CCP goes. But you'll have to anchor a structure. One that is vulnerable to attack.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8486 - 2017-01-27 01:25:31 UTC
Asjo wrote:
* Only allow cyno to be fitted on the most expensive ships. This would mean greater risk for those employing the mentioned tactic.


No. This is problematic on a number of fronts. First of it makes NS logistics more expensive and difficult. Right now you can use a noob ship to light a cyno, so even if you cyno ship gets popped you just dock up and bingo, there is the next one. You just need a stack of cynos and LO.

Second, this basically hands out free intel. Oh look everybody here comes the cyno ship take the appropriate action (blap it, get off gate, etc.).

Quote:
* Limit the amount of time people can stay cloaked (so there's no AFK cloaking), but make sure that people entering a system through a wormhole are not registered in local (to make up for cloaking being weaker).


No, this will adversely impact those who are ATK or the time period will be so long that people will just simply AFK cloak for the time span then have their client closed. The latter is almost surely not going to be a EULA violation as logging off automatically via third party software is in no way a violation of the section of the EULA against such software.

Quote:
* Make sure that people who go AFK for a given amount of time will be logged off (not registered in local) or marked as AFK. If they simply aren't registered in local, the defenders would only have to keep a fleet ready when active enemies, not for the guy who is AFK in their system for a week. Meanwhile, the latter option of marking people as AFK would have the pitfall of giving too much information for potential enemies, and they can explain this knowledge to attack the structures of this player.


No to the logging off. Players logged in are literally not a problem. That their presence either in space and cloaked or in station is not a problem except for the uncertainty I noted above and, IMO, uncertainty is a feature not a bug. AFK tags are free intel and look at the problem that local (another source of free intel) has caused.

Quote:
So, to move forward in this discussion, I think it's necessary to:

- Recognize that there is a problem in gameplay, even if you don't want it to be fixed.
- Look at the suggested solutions and discuss why they would work and why they would not.


CCP is looking at putting the Observatory Array (OA) in game which will be for players to have intel on what is going on in space. Based on other comments from CCP Devs they are also considering removing local. And one of the features of the OA will be to find cloaked ships. But the OA will have fitting options, so if you fit it to find cloaked ships you'll likely lose some other aspect of your intel system. Now intel will be vulnerable (unlike now) and cloaked ships will be vulnerable when at a safe (unlike now).

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Beeflee Filee
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8487 - 2017-01-27 01:27:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Beeflee Filee
If you do not want a counter to cloak, I guess what you really want is to keep a feature which is the definition of a carebear at least in the aspect that actually makes it possible to avoid any form for PVP for ever. I do not remember who started calling us carebear us who actually want a way to kill another carebear. One who sits in a system for no other reason that gather intell or just is afk to irritate other people is the very definition of a carebear when he does not wish to change the feature just a little bit so that he is not completly safe anymore.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8488 - 2017-01-27 01:37:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Beeflee Filee wrote:
If you do not want a counter to cloak, I guess what you really want is to keep a feature which is the definition of a carebear at least in the aspect that actually makes it possible to avoid any form for PVP for ever. I do not remember who started calling us carebear us who actually want a way to kill another carebear. One who sits in a system for no other reason that gather intell or just is afk to irritate other people is the very definition of a carebear when he does not wish to change the feature just a little bit so that he is not completly safe anymore.


Re-read the last paragraph of my last post and then go have a long and hard think.

If you want to do anything to cloaks because of AFK cloaking, then you must do something about local.

Local is why people AFK cloak. No local, no AFK cloaking (aside from bio breaks, getting another drink, answering the phone, etc.). No local then AFK cloaking has no effect on other players at all. It cannot have an effect because the other players would never know the cloaked player is there.

So, it seems CCP recognizes this and it seems that they will be eventually removing local and giving players the Observatory Array via which they can reclaim their intelligence system. But now it has a cost and it is vulnerable. And, it will almost surely offer a way to find cloaked ships, provided you sacrifice some other aspect of intel gathering.

Edit: If the person is sitting there and is gathering intel that is a perfectly viable and reasonable form of game play that in absolutely no way should be nerfed, IMO. Or any nerf should be very, very slight and/or easy to avoid so long as one is ATK.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Beeflee Filee
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8489 - 2017-01-27 01:44:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Beeflee Filee
Teckos Pech wrote:


Re-read the last paragraph of my last post and then go have a long and hard think.

If you want to do anything to cloaks because of AFK cloaking, then you must do something about local.

Local is why people AFK cloak. No local, no AFK cloaking (aside from bio breaks, getting another drink, answering the phone, etc.). No local then AFK cloaking has no effect on other players at all. It cannot have an effect because the other players would never know the cloaked player is there.

So, it seems CCP recognizes this and it seems that they will be eventually removing local and giving players the Observatory Array via which they can reclaim their intelligence system. But now it has a cost and it is vulnerable. And, it will almost surely offer a way to find cloaked ships, provided you sacrifice some other aspect of intel gathering.


I have read it and yes they have thought about it but it has yet to happen and we are discussing how it is now and why some thinks it should or should not be changed.

In another way some also want to keep features to make it easier to capture people. If they cannot do that with out some overpowered feature which should be changed, then they are simply not good enough at the game. It should not be a game feature which does all the work for them. I thrill on the hunt and when I believe that I am getting hunted. Even so I do not wish that he should be able get med with little to no effort.

Another point is you are in enemy territory ofcores they should not have the upper-hand unless they are actually more powerful than the enemy. I even had the Idea that when looking at some of my other posts saying that we should not be able to just get free intell if some one cyno or comes in via a WH. But I do believe that the free intell when using gates is quite reasonable as it could be said that it is in our territory and it sees who goes through it, in that way it is kinda under our control and there for that side of the intell should be okay. But why in the hell should the enemy just getting in to the territory actually know who is in there this is actually nonsense. It would be the same as saying a spy in the real world entered a country and all of a sudden he knows every thing which is going on. Seen from this perspective I would say ofcores you who are in enemy territory should be in more danger than the once in home territory.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8490 - 2017-01-27 08:40:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Of course I know it can be gamed, it is not an I win button but is to give the intelligent player the knowledge about the likely play time of someone who is AFK.

No it doesn't.

It gives people in local a piece of information that indicates that a player may be AFK, or may be gaming the AFK flag to their own benefit. There's never any way for the client to really know if the player logged on is AFK or not.

Since you can't really know if a player is AFK or not, implementing an AFK flag would be absolutely no different than the current state of affairs except that players have another mechanic with which to deceive other players.


Yes it does.

It enables me to work out the likely time to setup a trap and get people mobilised for it with the least hanging around while someone is at work or sleeping.

Well you are wrong, that person will have extended periods of AFK that will enable those who watch the ability to work it out and as I said it does not matter about deceiving people as they are ATK.

Is this a PvP game where you actually fight or a PvP game with two AFK characters staring at each other, with your definition I guess the latter.

Let me make it clear for you, the objective is to have a better idea of when that player will be active so I can setup the trap for him and his mates, do you get it?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8491 - 2017-01-27 08:45:15 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
If a ratting carrier was so easily caught without delayed local then AFK Cloaking would not need to exist.


But they have been caught and continue to be caught, just because you can't do it does not mean that others can't. Delayed local, are you that bad at Eve? That is because you most probably are useless in an interceptor, I admit that I am not that good in one myself, but I am not asking for local to be removed or delayed because I am not very good in an interceptor...

Local has been in this game for a long time and lots of ships have died to roaming gangs and the like, however the balance of being able to avoid if keeping a watch and being ready to get out is about right at this point, and I say that from being both a hunter and an avoider. You people want a certain catch, and the question is why does it have to be if someone is observant and properly set up he should still be caught? That is poor game play and taht is way a delayed local is for wimps and losers.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#8492 - 2017-01-27 09:27:26 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
If a ratting carrier was so easily caught without delayed local then AFK Cloaking would not need to exist.


But they have been caught and continue to be caught, just because you can't do it does not mean that others can't. Delayed local, are you that bad at Eve? That is because you most probably are useless in an interceptor, I admit that I am not that good in one myself, but I am not asking for local to be removed or delayed because I am not very good in an interceptor...

Local has been in this game for a long time and lots of ships have died to roaming gangs and the like, however the balance of being able to avoid if keeping a watch and being ready to get out is about right at this point, and I say that from being both a hunter and an avoider. You people want a certain catch, and the question is why does it have to be if someone is observant and properly set up he should still be caught? That is poor game play and taht is way a delayed local is for wimps and losers.



This call for delay or removal of local as a condition for the removal of AFK cloaking seems to have an air of foreknowledge to it. It's as if they know something is going to get done about AFK cloaking.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8493 - 2017-01-27 10:26:46 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
If a ratting carrier was so easily caught without delayed local then AFK Cloaking would not need to exist.


But they have been caught and continue to be caught, just because you can't do it does not mean that others can't. Delayed local, are you that bad at Eve? That is because you most probably are useless in an interceptor, I admit that I am not that good in one myself, but I am not asking for local to be removed or delayed because I am not very good in an interceptor...

Local has been in this game for a long time and lots of ships have died to roaming gangs and the like, however the balance of being able to avoid if keeping a watch and being ready to get out is about right at this point, and I say that from being both a hunter and an avoider. You people want a certain catch, and the question is why does it have to be if someone is observant and properly set up he should still be caught? That is poor game play and taht is way a delayed local is for wimps and losers.



This call for delay or removal of local as a condition for the removal of AFK cloaking seems to have an air of foreknowledge to it. It's as if they know something is going to get done about AFK cloaking.



I have not heard anything, but this thread is full of remove local replies, it is almost a religion for some.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Van Doe
#8494 - 2017-01-27 10:33:31 UTC
Nerv afk cloaking and you nerv my ability to get rid of body fluids in anything ohter then the empty ice tee bottle while roaming around in w space

I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy. afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8495 - 2017-01-27 10:41:06 UTC
Beeflee Filee wrote:


In another way some also want to keep features to make it easier to capture people. If they cannot do that with out some overpowered feature which should be changed, then they are simply not good enough at the game.


How do you catch people when they can see you coming and know exactly what you are in from 30+ jumps away? It not a case of being good at the game or not, no amount of skill will let you get around local.

Beeflee Filee wrote:


Another point is you are in enemy territory ofcores they should not have the upper-hand unless they are actually more powerful than the enemy. I even had the Idea that when looking at some of my other posts saying that we should not be able to just get free intell if some one cyno or comes in via a WH. But I do believe that the free intell when using gates is quite reasonable as it could be said that it is in our territory and it sees who goes through it, in that way it is kinda under our control and there for that side of the intell should be okay. But why in the hell should the enemy just getting in to the territory actually know who is in there this is actually nonsense. It would be the same as saying a spy in the real world entered a country and all of a sudden he knows every thing which is going on. Seen from this perspective I would say ofcores you who are in enemy territory should be in more danger than the once in home territory.


We are in more danger.

When I go into braves home system I will be outnumbered anything up to 200 to 1, they can have an entire fleet on top of my solo bomber in seconds.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8496 - 2017-01-27 10:42:22 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
If a ratting carrier was so easily caught without delayed local then AFK Cloaking would not need to exist.


But they have been caught and continue to be caught, just because you can't do it does not mean that others can't. Delayed local, are you that bad at Eve? That is because you most probably are useless in an interceptor, I admit that I am not that good in one myself, but I am not asking for local to be removed or delayed because I am not very good in an interceptor...

Local has been in this game for a long time and lots of ships have died to roaming gangs and the like, however the balance of being able to avoid if keeping a watch and being ready to get out is about right at this point, and I say that from being both a hunter and an avoider. You people want a certain catch, and the question is why does it have to be if someone is observant and properly set up he should still be caught? That is poor game play and taht is way a delayed local is for wimps and losers.



This call for delay or removal of local as a condition for the removal of AFK cloaking seems to have an air of foreknowledge to it. It's as if they know something is going to get done about AFK cloaking.



I have not heard anything, but this thread is full of remove local replies, it is almost a religion for some.


Its what must happen if you take away the only counter to local.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8497 - 2017-01-27 10:54:56 UTC
Van Doe wrote:
Nerv afk cloaking and you nerv my ability to get rid of body fluids in anything ohter then the empty ice tee bottle while roaming around in w space


And that is a fair point and why people like me do not want to nerf cloaking.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Beeflee Filee
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8498 - 2017-01-27 11:12:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


How do you catch people when they can see you coming and know exactly what you are in from 30+ jumps away? It not a case of being good at the game or not, no amount of skill will let you get around local.

We are in more danger.

When I go into braves home system I will be outnumbered anything up to 200 to 1, they can have an entire fleet on top of my solo bomber in seconds.


WH lets you not be seen until you are in the system the WH goes to.

And I could say the same if local was removed, no amount of skill will get you away from a 30 man gank.

But now its more that you can stay safe for ever in a system as soon as you put on your cloak how is that any where near fair when you are making it more unsafe for every one else?

I do not believe that it is good for game play that you should be able to stay in one place in your ship with no danger to you. Another thing is you are there after down time or log of. Because Apparently your ship is still invis when logging off. if log of meant going to sleep could you please fall down in to the dashboard and accidently hit decloak.

But your bomber cannot be found because of cloak. And I am not saying it should be easy to find a cloaked person, maybe we are not even talking about a feature that lets us find him, maybe it is a feature that says the cloak uses some sort of fuel, such that you at least cannot stay in the system for ever cloaked. Just debuff cloak to the point where we do not have the same person in our system for weeks on end. Lets say the person has to refuel in half a day then we at least have a chance of catching the person every time they need to go back through the wormhole or the gate. If you cannot catch a person with in a half day I would say maybe it is just not your day or you should have moved on to other systems hoping for a kill. Intell is not perfect we still rely on people to actually tell that someone has been spotted. Which could give you an opening. And again you are in enemy territory live and thrill on the danger of you actually not being invincible after you cloaked for ever. If I am to look out for danger all the time which is what I do with intell channel which requires me to actually look if some one has said any thing. You should also have to work to be safe you are in enemy territory, I do not have the luxury of knowing when someone will come out of a WH in the system I am ratting in I must respond to the intell and not before there I will know. When you fly in enemy territory which I actually like doing, I feel the thrill of them hunting me and maybe catching me. If you want no fun or are to scared of loosing your ship because cloak is not perfect anymore after such an update I would say maybe EVE is not for you.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8499 - 2017-01-27 12:01:27 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Beeflee Filee wrote:


WH lets you not be seen until you are in the system the WH goes to.


They are random, require a probe launcher and you get spotted the instant you pop out of one. Doesn't change the fact that if I go roaming in a megathron the drone regions will have upwards of 30 minutes warning I'm on the way.

Beeflee Filee wrote:

And I could say the same if local was removed, no amount of skill will get you away from a 30 man gank.


WH players manage.

Beeflee Filee wrote:

But now its more that you can stay safe for ever in a system as soon as you put on your cloak how is that any where near fair when you are making it more unsafe for every one else?


You dock when I enter system or enter a POS. Cloaking give me a little less safety than that so it evens the playground and allows me to operate in enemy space for extended periods of time.

Beeflee Filee wrote:

I do not believe that it is good for game play that you should be able to stay in one place in your ship with no danger to you.



Yet you are fine with docking in stations and the use of local intel channels gifting people 100% safety.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8500 - 2017-01-27 12:10:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
I have suggested that we have a special probe that is able to locate the grid of the cloaked ship, but not its exact location, it would however need to be high SP and difficult to get a location, then the person would need to hunt them by waiting for them to warp to their hiding place when they log on then it is a simple matter of getting close enough the next time to catch them.

I would also have an AFK flag from an OA that will detailed a character as AFK if they do not do anything to their client for one hour. If they do anything with their client it will remove the AFK flag. The objective is not for feeling safe, but to learn the persons habits over time so you can then work out the best time to set your bait and trap for him.

That is about as far as I would go and local stays as it is, because if you can't get onto someone with an interceptor you fail at Eve.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp