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Courier contracts are a joke

First post
Author
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
#1 - 2017-01-20 04:03:02 UTC
No, seriously, I remember when there used to be many of them, and maybe it's just the size of my cargohold but do people know that you sort of have to at least kind of compensate people for hauling your crap? Look at this: https://i.gyazo.com/fbb2f533af9d64635278a3df77538043.png

Sure, buddy, I will totally risk 200 million isk for a penny. Yeah. Good luck with that.

I think if anyone running for CSM is paying attention to things happening in highsec and lowsec, something needs to be done about this lol
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#2 - 2017-01-20 04:21:25 UTC
People jump on the good contracts fast. Don't like the bad ones, well then don't take them. The system is self correcting like that.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#3 - 2017-01-20 04:21:58 UTC
Despite those rewards, someone will still do them. Smile

If people didn't do these, then the rewards would rise LOL

Get mad at the other couriers that work for peanuts.

@lunettelulu7

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#4 - 2017-01-20 04:23:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
There's a sucker born every minute and many of them become haulers in EVE.

Unfortunately, all of those contracts will end up being picked up by someone and moved, so the system perpetuates.

If you are looking for more reasonable pay, join the Hauler's Channel.

There are some general guidelines that most people follow in there and always a steady flow of courier work.
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
#5 - 2017-01-20 04:32:18 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
There's a sucker born every minute and many of them become haulers in EVE.

Unfortunately, all of those contracts will end up being picked up by someone and moved, so the system perpetuates.

If you are looking for more reasonable pay, join the Hauler's Channel.

There are some general guidelines that most people follow in there and always a steady flow of courier work.


Thanks, I'll jump in and have a look
Black Pedro
Mine.
#6 - 2017-01-20 07:23:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Meryl SinGarda wrote:
No, seriously, I remember when there used to be many of them, and maybe it's just the size of my cargohold but do people know that you sort of have to at least kind of compensate people for hauling your crap? Look at this: https://i.gyazo.com/fbb2f533af9d64635278a3df77538043.png

Sure, buddy, I will totally risk 200 million isk for a penny. Yeah. Good luck with that.

I think if anyone running for CSM is paying attention to things happening in highsec and lowsec, something needs to be done about this lol
Contracts and their compensation are completely determined by the players so I am not sure what you want the CSM to do about it.

The reason they pay so little is that piracy has been nerfed and nerfed to the point it is almost always unprofitable in highsec, and near impossible in lowsec due to the ability of ships to jump from tether to tether in complete safety. CCP Quant's numbers show only a tiny fraction of one percent of goods transported in this game are stopped by pirates. Therefore, you aren't really paying for risk but just the time of another player to click a couple times to move your stuff. How much do you really want the other players to give you for a few moments of your attention?

The market has decided hauling is a low-effort, low-risk activity and pays accordingly. Your best bet is to find someone who needs either large amounts of material moved, or moved quickly, that isn't served well by public contracts and add some value to your services so you can charge more.
Qwerty Ernaga
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2017-01-20 09:10:32 UTC
Used to pay 1M ISKs per jump as a bare minimum but sometimes it was counter-productive as people were suspicious about scamming. But no idea why would anyone waste their time for like 200k per jump unless it´s afk auto delivery using their 8th account.
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#8 - 2017-01-20 12:07:25 UTC
If this information is correct CCP already announced a “drop off” feature that should make hauling contracts more attractive again. To scam a hauler for the collateral you will have to blow up the ship again.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6801876#post6801876
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#9 - 2017-01-20 13:24:07 UTC
Meryl SinGarda, what would you like to see happen with courier contracts then?

They're entirely player generated.

I don't see forcing a minimum price for them as a viable option (After all, maybe you're doing a favour for a friend)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Marcus Binchiette
Federal Vanguard
Evictus.
#10 - 2017-01-20 13:35:53 UTC
I've done some of those smaller contracts before, and they can be worth your time. The first thing to do is achieve economy of scales by accepting more than one contract at a time, when they are deliverable to the same location. The second thing I do is use a small and fast ship to make the trips as fast as possible. I typically use a warp speed and agility enhanced tech I industrial with more than 30k eHP, time to warp of about 4 seconds, and does more AU/s than a shuttlecraft.

Taking multiple small contracts like this I can easily get 100k ISK per jump - and considering that I am about 3 times faster than a freighter that works out to fairly equivalent to freighter pilot income rates. As I can do the Jita >> Amarr >> Dodixie >> Hek >> Rens >> Jita run in about 30 minutes. There are also some pretty nice regional delivery runs, and the trick is finding large numbers of hauls in the same region, or deliverable to the same location.

Typical figure I work with for operating a tech I industrial courier is about 100k ISK per jump. If they don't pay this amount, or I can't find any concurrent jobs to the same destination or from the same location, then I don't take the job. For a freighter 500k ISK per jump is the standard figure.

As for the collateral it should be high, because, that is tied to the value of the products you're transporting - and that is how you know the job is worth doing.
mkint
#11 - 2017-01-20 14:12:16 UTC
Meryl SinGarda wrote:
I have no talent whatsoever and I won't get rich doing something trivially easy. I demand the game be rewritten to accommodate my own personal failures!

Um... can I have your stuff?

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2017-01-20 14:12:17 UTC
As mentioned above, join the Haulers Channel, if affordable only take couriers from there. Scams are not allowed there and people announcing tiny rewards or otherwise "funny" contracts are quickly talked out of it by the community. Though the good deals come with collaterals in the 2-5B range and require a DST at lvl4 minimum. On the lower end there is too much competition of newbies, crashing the prices.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Zappity
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#13 - 2017-01-20 22:39:36 UTC
You are under no obligation to accept the contract. How does it affect you?

I often list very low reward contracts near Jita. They are usually accepted quickly. I think people who are planning on running the route anyway snap them up.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
#14 - 2017-01-20 22:49:40 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
As mentioned above, join the Haulers Channel, if affordable only take couriers from there. Scams are not allowed there and people announcing tiny rewards or otherwise "funny" contracts are quickly talked out of it by the community. Though the good deals come with collaterals in the 2-5B range and require a DST at lvl4 minimum. On the lower end there is too much competition of newbies, crashing the prices.


I did join that channel ;p and it's pretty sweet.

I was thinking someone in CSM could put forward an idea to enforce a minimum reward that scales correctly with collateral, but with this channel of non-scam jobs, it's not such a huge deal.
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2017-01-20 23:32:07 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
People jump on the good contracts fast. Don't like the bad ones, well then don't take them. The system is self correcting like that.


Market discipline at work....why people find this such a problem is something I blame on evolution. P

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2017-01-20 23:33:19 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
There's a sucker born every minute and many of them become haulers in EVE.

Unfortunately, all of those contracts will end up being picked up by someone and moved, so the system perpetuates.

If you are looking for more reasonable pay, join the Hauler's Channel.

There are some general guidelines that most people follow in there and always a steady flow of courier work.


The beauty of spontaneous order and emergence.

Quick CCP nerf this into the goddamn ground!!!! It is just bad game design!!!! Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2017-01-20 23:34:45 UTC
Meryl SinGarda wrote:
No, seriously, I remember when there used to be many of them, and maybe it's just the size of my cargohold but do people know that you sort of have to at least kind of compensate people for hauling your crap? Look at this: https://i.gyazo.com/fbb2f533af9d64635278a3df77538043.png

Sure, buddy, I will totally risk 200 million isk for a penny. Yeah. Good luck with that.

I think if anyone running for CSM is paying attention to things happening in highsec and lowsec, something needs to be done about this lol


See....people just not liking market discipline.

Here is the solution: Just don't accept that contract and move on to something else.

No need for CCP. No need for the CSM.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

mkint
#18 - 2017-01-20 23:49:06 UTC
You know what... I'm gonna call it. Horrifyingly bad ideas like this need to go in F&I where they can be properly ignored.

IB4L God willing.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
#19 - 2017-01-20 23:57:26 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Meryl SinGarda, what would you like to see happen with courier contracts then?

They're entirely player generated.

I don't see forcing a minimum price for them as a viable option (After all, maybe you're doing a favour for a friend)


That was actually my suggestion but I see how that could minimize the nature of the sandbox. The fact that players have organized something to get around this issue kind of fixes the problem (I hadn't even previously known there was a channel of haulers)
Memphis Baas
#20 - 2017-01-21 02:03:28 UTC
500k per jump is, I believe, the typical fee for purely high-sec. 1m for low-sec. And null is typically handled by your own alliance's logistics, so use the setup they provide.

I've put up couriers for 500k per jump and they were picked up as soon as I clicked "yes I'm sure". Those 200k per jump, as mentioned above, you're only seeing them because the thousands of players who do courier missions don't like the pay, so they're not taking the contracts.

Someone might, eventually, if they can combine a whole bunch of loads into a freighter going to the same destination, and just add that contract on top. Contracts going from / to Jita, and that Jita - Amarr, have very high likelihood of being picked up; there's probably at least 100 freighters moving between trade hubs daily.

Which is why the guy is offering less pay and can still get someone to transport his stuff.

Otherwise, as mentioned above, the contracts interface is a completely open interface to let us do things that we can't do with just the market, and we like to keep it open like that. Other MMO's just have a trading / auction system and that's it.
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