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[118.7] Warp Bubble Dragging Change

First post First post
Author
Cade Windstalker
#281 - 2016-10-14 15:53:14 UTC
Violet Hurst wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:

Q) Whats wrong with Citadels camping gates?
A) Their invulnerability. Citadel bubble camping is risk free.


Noob question here: Citadels camping the ingate are not a problem?


Citadels on the in-gate can't aggress you unless you're silly enough to warp into their bubbles leaving the gate, and they can't shoot you as you jump in.

I think the bit of information you're missing here may be that Citadels have to be 1000km away from gates (and other Citadels, and a few other things)
erittainvarma
Fistful of Finns
#282 - 2016-10-26 07:41:04 UTC
This 500km drag range solution is treating symptoms, not the cause and just makes game more confusing. Bubbles should drag if your warp ends inside the grid they are and they are in your warp bath. That's easy to understand mechanic, arbitrary km limits what ever they are aren't.

Citadels in gate grid are the real problem here. They should have 100 000km range limit to gates instead of 1000km.
Zockhandra
Lethal Injection Inc.
Pandemic Legion
#283 - 2016-12-12 20:09:43 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Space Friends,

The current range that warp bubbles are effective (how far from your destination they can pull you out of warp) is a little unclear. This has lead to some 'interesting' possibilities, such as bubble camping a gate with a citadel.

With the 118.7 patch, we are considering changing the maximum distance for a warp bubble (mobile, probe or hictor bubble) to effect a warp to be 500km.

This means only warp disruption bubbles that are 500km in-front or behind your warp destination, which are inline with your warp, will pull you out of warp early or drag you.

What do you think? We'd love your feedback!

Update 2016-07-04 - Q&A



Okay, my first issue with this is the following:

I hunt bots quite regularly in Null-sec then report them. In order to hunt them i have to not only contend with the new citadels being used to pop the bubbles i place to catch them. But also the threat of someone manning pos guns and shooting me on the pos traps i set too.

I personally feel like the distance should be at least 1000km to allow such maneuvers to be made.

Considering the Introduction of Citadels and Industrial arrays, it's become much harder to hunt people using pre-set traps and fast warp sabres. Due in most-part to the Threat of the Citadels 250km SCRAM and its (low) damage.

You are Trying to solve Issues with Citadels camping gates using bubbles and hurting every other profession that uses them in the Process......

Why don't you actually look at restricting how close you can anchor a Citadel to a gate

OR

at the very least give the hunters that you seem to despise so much, something else they can use to trap prey. Because this is getting beyond a joke.

You have introduced more than 8 Mechanics in the past year that adversely effect the ability to hunt in null-sec (Including the idea of a ship Decloaking array?!). You have not even suggested any kind of compensation mechanics for these new 'features'.

Can you please stop racing ahead before considering the effects on other professions.

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#284 - 2016-12-12 21:29:19 UTC
Zockhandra wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Space Friends,

The current range that warp bubbles are effective (how far from your destination they can pull you out of warp) is a little unclear. This has lead to some 'interesting' possibilities, such as bubble camping a gate with a citadel.

With the 118.7 patch, we are considering changing the maximum distance for a warp bubble (mobile, probe or hictor bubble) to effect a warp to be 500km.

This means only warp disruption bubbles that are 500km in-front or behind your warp destination, which are inline with your warp, will pull you out of warp early or drag you.

What do you think? We'd love your feedback!

Update 2016-07-04 - Q&A



Okay, my first issue with this is the following:

I hunt bots quite regularly in Null-sec then report them. In order to hunt them i have to not only contend with the new citadels being used to pop the bubbles i place to catch them. But also the threat of someone manning pos guns and shooting me on the pos traps i set too.

I personally feel like the distance should be at least 1000km to allow such maneuvers to be made.

Considering the Introduction of Citadels and Industrial arrays, it's become much harder to hunt people using pre-set traps and fast warp sabres. Due in most-part to the Threat of the Citadels 250km SCRAM and its (low) damage.

You are Trying to solve Issues with Citadels camping gates using bubbles and hurting every other profession that uses them in the Process......

Why don't you actually look at restricting how close you can anchor a Citadel to a gate

OR

at the very least give the hunters that you seem to despise so much, something else they can use to trap prey. Because this is getting beyond a joke.

You have introduced more than 8 Mechanics in the past year that adversely effect the ability to hunt in null-sec (Including the idea of a ship Decloaking array?!). You have not even suggested any kind of compensation mechanics for these new 'features'.

Can you please stop racing ahead before considering the effects on other professions.


Considering Citadels need to be manned to catch you with the 250km scram or pop the bubbles you set (why are you setting bubbles that close when you have 500km in which to set them) - Is it bots you are hunting?
Or just some unfortunate mining gang you want to solo kill with a fast warping Sabre?

Same goes for pos traps, up to 500km puts you well out of the range pos guns can hit you.

I think you just need to rethink your strategy.
(try placing your preset traps outside citadel and pos range, 500km gives you lots of options)


My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Zockhandra
Lethal Injection Inc.
Pandemic Legion
#285 - 2016-12-12 21:59:11 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Zockhandra wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Space Friends,

The current range that warp bubbles are effective (how far from your destination they can pull you out of warp) is a little unclear. This has lead to some 'interesting' possibilities, such as bubble camping a gate with a citadel.

With the 118.7 patch, we are considering changing the maximum distance for a warp bubble (mobile, probe or hictor bubble) to effect a warp to be 500km.

This means only warp disruption bubbles that are 500km in-front or behind your warp destination, which are inline with your warp, will pull you out of warp early or drag you.

What do you think? We'd love your feedback!

Update 2016-07-04 - Q&A



Okay, my first issue with this is the following:

I hunt bots quite regularly in Null-sec then report them. In order to hunt them i have to not only contend with the new citadels being used to pop the bubbles i place to catch them. But also the threat of someone manning pos guns and shooting me on the pos traps i set too.

I personally feel like the distance should be at least 1000km to allow such maneuvers to be made.

Considering the Introduction of Citadels and Industrial arrays, it's become much harder to hunt people using pre-set traps and fast warp sabres. Due in most-part to the Threat of the Citadels 250km SCRAM and its (low) damage.

You are Trying to solve Issues with Citadels camping gates using bubbles and hurting every other profession that uses them in the Process......

Why don't you actually look at restricting how close you can anchor a Citadel to a gate

OR

at the very least give the hunters that you seem to despise so much, something else they can use to trap prey. Because this is getting beyond a joke.

You have introduced more than 8 Mechanics in the past year that adversely effect the ability to hunt in null-sec (Including the idea of a ship Decloaking array?!). You have not even suggested any kind of compensation mechanics for these new 'features'.

Can you please stop racing ahead before considering the effects on other professions.


Considering Citadels need to be manned to catch you with the 250km scram or pop the bubbles you set (why are you setting bubbles that close when you have 500km in which to set them) - Is it bots you are hunting?
Or just some unfortunate mining gang you want to solo kill with a fast warping Sabre?

Same goes for pos traps, up to 500km puts you well out of the range pos guns can hit you.

I think you just need to rethink your strategy.
(try placing your preset traps outside citadel and pos range, 500km gives you lots of options)





Yes.... as stated i hunt bots. And whilst i DO anchor bubbles outside of the 350km scram range on Citadels, Bots have started using pilots to SIT IN THEM, and shoot anything within their enormous weapons range. Meaning you cant camp the Citadel with bubbles because it gets shot.


Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.

Cade Windstalker
#286 - 2016-12-12 22:37:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
Zockhandra wrote:
Okay, my first issue with this is the following:

I hunt bots quite regularly in Null-sec then report them. In order to hunt them i have to not only contend with the new citadels being used to pop the bubbles i place to catch them. But also the threat of someone manning pos guns and shooting me on the pos traps i set too.

I personally feel like the distance should be at least 1000km to allow such maneuvers to be made.

Considering the Introduction of Citadels and Industrial arrays, it's become much harder to hunt people using pre-set traps and fast warp sabres. Due in most-part to the Threat of the Citadels 250km SCRAM and its (low) damage.

You are Trying to solve Issues with Citadels camping gates using bubbles and hurting every other profession that uses them in the Process......

Why don't you actually look at restricting how close you can anchor a Citadel to a gate

OR

at the very least give the hunters that you seem to despise so much, something else they can use to trap prey. Because this is getting beyond a joke.

You have introduced more than 8 Mechanics in the past year that adversely effect the ability to hunt in null-sec (Including the idea of a ship Decloaking array?!). You have not even suggested any kind of compensation mechanics for these new 'features'.

Can you please stop racing ahead before considering the effects on other professions.


Or, and this is just a thought, CCP have in fact considered the impact of this on your profession(s), you just don't like the result but they're perfectly fine with it.

Not every nerf needs a corresponding buff, sometimes something just needs nerfing, or more available counter-play against it, or more interesting and varied gameplay.

Personally I can't say I have much sympathy for you here considering what you're describing sounds like the absolute laziest hunting method ever.

And yeah, 500km is plenty for you to set your bubbles outside of range of Citadels and POSes. If you're still having issues I don't know what to tell you here. I do have to wonder how big of an issue this can actually be for you, given that it apparently took you almost 2 months after this was deployed to come and complain about it, and in that time there's been basically no ill effects from this change beyond the very much intended removal of Citadel traps on gates.

Oh and Citadels are limited in how close they can be anchored to a gate, the limit is 1000km.
Zockhandra
Lethal Injection Inc.
Pandemic Legion
#287 - 2016-12-12 22:49:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Zockhandra
-

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.

Kittel Jr
Kitlactic Industries
#288 - 2016-12-16 21:16:39 UTC
All anchorable bubbles and interdiction sphere probe's should be removed.

Anchorable bubbles are lazy, drag bubbles shouldn't even exist, pulling ship past the warp collapsed warp landing is probably a bug they decided to leave in.

Playing the game should be rewarded! not lazy anchorable or bubbles...
Interdiction should be done via HIC style ship bubbles, make the interdictors this was as well, bubble from ships only.
Kittel Jr
Kitlactic Industries
#289 - 2016-12-16 21:38:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Kittel Jr
Zockhandra wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Space Friends,

The current range that warp bubbles are effective (how far from your destination they can pull you out of warp) is a little unclear. This has lead to some 'interesting' possibilities, such as bubble camping a gate with a citadel.

With the 118.7 patch, we are considering changing the maximum distance for a warp bubble (mobile, probe or hictor bubble) to effect a warp to be 500km.

This means only warp disruption bubbles that are 500km in-front or behind your warp destination, which are inline with your warp, will pull you out of warp early or drag you.

What do you think? We'd love your feedback!

Update 2016-07-04 - Q&A


...

You have introduced more than 8 Mechanics in the past year that adversely effect the ability to hunt in null-sec (Including the idea of a ship Decloaking array?!). You have not even suggested any kind of compensation mechanics for these new 'features'.

Can you please stop racing ahead before considering the effects on other professions.


Hey the decloak array is a great idea, if you own space you should be able to effectively control it (including locked gates (hackable) & taxed gates).

Alternatively cloaks should use fuel (heavy water) every 30-60 seconds or so (with new skills, duration per fuel and fuel per use). Want to stay cloaked, you need fuel, so even with max skills and full of fuel max (without reloading the cloak) cloak is 1 hour, that fixes the whole problem, activation equals fuel use as well.
Rain6637
NulzSec
#290 - 2016-12-16 22:11:26 UTC
I think it should be more like you need fuel just to fly and warp should require heavy water
Cade Windstalker
#291 - 2016-12-18 19:38:21 UTC
Kittel Jr wrote:
All anchorable bubbles and interdiction sphere probe's should be removed.

Anchorable bubbles are lazy, drag bubbles shouldn't even exist, pulling ship past the warp collapsed warp landing is probably a bug they decided to leave in.

Playing the game should be rewarded! not lazy anchorable or bubbles...
Interdiction should be done via HIC style ship bubbles, make the interdictors this was as well, bubble from ships only.


This is incorrect, drag bubbles is an entirely intentional feature.

Just because you don't like something doesn't make it bad gameplay. Bubbles exist, learn to live with them.
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
Seventh Sanctum.
#292 - 2016-12-20 14:44:39 UTC
It's funny how many tears I read here - mostly because when CCP touch a pirates or gangers toys now they cry like hell.
Mostly laughing when a 80% of Eve players are carebears and want to taste any kind of activity - now they can't cause of the reason above
Pirates - Gangers etc;

CCP already changed a lot of game mechanic;
Mostly im pissed off about instalocking ship even when you are in cloaky one (Twice i can't turn on cloak cause I were targeted before it went on and popped);

This stuff shouldnt be made for Gangers - it should be done for warfare reason;

Right now this game is something like Give or Take - when "Take" is for Gangers, and Give nothing to others.

Hope so you got my point -
Dracos Delfinten
Perkone
Caldari State
#293 - 2017-01-12 21:36:09 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Space Friends,

The current range that warp bubbles are effective (how far from your destination they can pull you out of warp) is a little unclear. This has lead to some 'interesting' possibilities, such as bubble camping a gate with a citadel.

With the 118.7 patch, we are considering changing the maximum distance for a warp bubble (mobile, probe or hictor bubble) to effect a warp to be 500km.

This means only warp disruption bubbles that are 500km in-front or behind your warp destination, which are inline with your warp, will pull you out of warp early or drag you.

What do you think? We'd love your feedback!

Update 2016-07-04 - Q&A


To me, it feels like bubbles are a poorly designed game mechanic made purely for pirates which is entirely unrealistic. Considering the fact that in any real universe which had people capable of making space ships, probes, and drones there would be the ability to see these camps without putting yourself in harm's way, no one would ever get caught in a bubble without failing to look before leaping. Instead, we have to completely avoid them or send in a fleet to destroy them. How is that fun for anyone but gankers? Also, why can't we manually set destinations (not having to create bookmarks) instead of being forced to warp to a location within 100km?
I feel like this game heavily favors pirating and ganking, and that's a huge contributor to people avoiding this game. I understand that pirates are realistic, especially with the current state of society, but you should be able to realistically avoid them as well. If you spent more time putting things in your game for people to interact with & be rewarded by and less time on forced PVP & convoluted interfaces, your subscriber base would grow exponentially.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#294 - 2017-01-13 11:34:51 UTC
.... I want you to go and count just how many tools you have to avoid bubbles in eve. I'll even be nice and say you don't have to count alternate routes
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#295 - 2017-01-13 12:17:32 UTC
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
It's funny how many tears I read here - mostly because when CCP touch a pirates or gangers toys now they cry like hell.
Mostly laughing when a 80% of Eve players are carebears and want to taste any kind of activity - now they can't cause of the reason above
Pirates - Gangers etc;

CCP already changed a lot of game mechanic;
Mostly im pissed off about instalocking ship even when you are in cloaky one (Twice i can't turn on cloak cause I were targeted before it went on and popped);

This stuff shouldnt be made for Gangers - it should be done for warfare reason;

Right now this game is something like Give or Take - when "Take" is for Gangers, and Give nothing to others.

Hope so you got my point -

Not sure how the insta-locking before cloak thing happened. It used to be that if you had a sub 2.0 second align time you could not be locked and with cloak you could not be locked.

Now it does appear that even with both of the above, the lock can sneak in. Not sure how I feel about that, good in a way in that I think cloaking should not give 100% immunity but at the same time it creates major issues for cloakies + min / maxxers pushing limits.

I've been insta-locked and killed by Onyx's twice, both in Rancer, while in a hound. Given the hound is entirely reliant on cloak for defence its a bit much to remove that defence without the attacker needing a frigate sized ship and bubbles to do so

If the problem is scan resolution being buffed, its now quite easy to get a few k in scan res, theres probably a need to put a cap on scan res to avoid the issue otherwise its a waste of time flying paper thing cloakies and youre better off flying a cloaky regengu and just crashing the gate if you get locked.

Thats the other option so there are other options so whatever

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#296 - 2017-01-15 07:05:18 UTC
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
It's funny how many tears I read here - mostly because when CCP touch a pirates or gangers toys now they cry like hell.
Mostly laughing when a 80% of Eve players are carebears and want to taste any kind of activity - now they can't cause of the reason above
Pirates - Gangers etc;

CCP already changed a lot of game mechanic;
Mostly im pissed off about instalocking ship even when you are in cloaky one (Twice i can't turn on cloak cause I were targeted before it went on and popped);

This stuff shouldnt be made for Gangers - it should be done for warfare reason;

Right now this game is something like Give or Take - when "Take" is for Gangers, and Give nothing to others.

Hope so you got my point -


This bubble on citadel tactic was mostly used by ratters to defend their systems.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#297 - 2017-01-16 02:35:06 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
It's funny how many tears I read here - mostly because when CCP touch a pirates or gangers toys now they cry like hell.
Mostly laughing when a 80% of Eve players are carebears and want to taste any kind of activity - now they can't cause of the reason above
Pirates - Gangers etc;

CCP already changed a lot of game mechanic;
Mostly im pissed off about instalocking ship even when you are in cloaky one (Twice i can't turn on cloak cause I were targeted before it went on and popped);

This stuff shouldnt be made for Gangers - it should be done for warfare reason;

Right now this game is something like Give or Take - when "Take" is for Gangers, and Give nothing to others.

Hope so you got my point -


This bubble on citadel tactic was mostly used by ratters to defend their systems.



That's not true, that's impossible!
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#298 - 2017-01-16 08:03:27 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
It's funny how many tears I read here - mostly because when CCP touch a pirates or gangers toys now they cry like hell.
Mostly laughing when a 80% of Eve players are carebears and want to taste any kind of activity - now they can't cause of the reason above
Pirates - Gangers etc;

CCP already changed a lot of game mechanic;
Mostly im pissed off about instalocking ship even when you are in cloaky one (Twice i can't turn on cloak cause I were targeted before it went on and popped);

This stuff shouldnt be made for Gangers - it should be done for warfare reason;

Right now this game is something like Give or Take - when "Take" is for Gangers, and Give nothing to others.

Hope so you got my point -


This bubble on citadel tactic was mostly used by ratters to defend their systems.



That's not true, that's impossible!

Yeah its not true lol. The opposite. First time I ever met a citadel bubble was in 7RM. Landed right next to a citadel and got insta locked and popped by a carrier with a network sensor array. 7RM is definitely not a ratter system.

There are citidels on almost every gate in some regions, they're not there for ratting lol.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#299 - 2017-01-16 14:48:34 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
It's funny how many tears I read here - mostly because when CCP touch a pirates or gangers toys now they cry like hell.
Mostly laughing when a 80% of Eve players are carebears and want to taste any kind of activity - now they can't cause of the reason above
Pirates - Gangers etc;

CCP already changed a lot of game mechanic;
Mostly im pissed off about instalocking ship even when you are in cloaky one (Twice i can't turn on cloak cause I were targeted before it went on and popped);

This stuff shouldnt be made for Gangers - it should be done for warfare reason;

Right now this game is something like Give or Take - when "Take" is for Gangers, and Give nothing to others.

Hope so you got my point -


This bubble on citadel tactic was mostly used by ratters to defend their systems.



That's not true, that's impossible!


Search your feelings Lugh, you know it to be true.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#300 - 2017-01-16 14:53:00 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
It's funny how many tears I read here - mostly because when CCP touch a pirates or gangers toys now they cry like hell.
Mostly laughing when a 80% of Eve players are carebears and want to taste any kind of activity - now they can't cause of the reason above
Pirates - Gangers etc;

CCP already changed a lot of game mechanic;
Mostly im pissed off about instalocking ship even when you are in cloaky one (Twice i can't turn on cloak cause I were targeted before it went on and popped);

This stuff shouldnt be made for Gangers - it should be done for warfare reason;

Right now this game is something like Give or Take - when "Take" is for Gangers, and Give nothing to others.

Hope so you got my point -


This bubble on citadel tactic was mostly used by ratters to defend their systems.



That's not true, that's impossible!

Yeah its not true lol. The opposite. First time I ever met a citadel bubble was in 7RM. Landed right next to a citadel and got insta locked and popped by a carrier with a network sensor array. 7RM is definitely not a ratter system.

There are citidels on almost every gate in some regions, they're not there for ratting lol.


ratting defences don't start in the ratting system, these things started at the borders. Back before the imperium was turfed out of the north I had to pick my way through an entire region of these things before I got to an fcon ratting system.