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Sleipnir active tank PvP - cap booster or large cap battery?
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Andaria
Doomheim
#1 - 2017-01-15 18:17:04 UTC
I'm running an active shield booster tank sleipnir for pvp.

I've been using a cap booster but i'm wondering about using a large cap battery instead. Thukker large cap battery gives +1755 to cap and 28% 'cap warfare resistance bonus'.

The T2 medium cap booster gives me 800 cap, but i can only use it once every 24 seconds or so. That's because it only holds one charge and has to reload.

The large cap battery increases my cap recharge rate by 14.5 per second. Over 24 seconds that is 348 extra cap I receive as a result of having the cap battery. Obviously this is worse than the 800 I would have received from having 800 cap boosted from the cap booster.

However, the cap battery does give that 28% cap resistance bonus. I'm not entirely sure what that means as it previously was called 'reflection'. I'm assuming it means that neuts/nos will kill 28% less of my cap than they usually would. Also, if that cap drain reflect is still a thing, as a bonus my enemy would kill 28% of their own cap from nossing me. Don't know if that last part is still in game though.

So, a cap booster would give me quite a lot more cap per 24 seconds than a large cap battery would. But when we consider the 28% cap warfare resistance bonus, this could help in making up for the cap shortfall of the battery, in theory? For example let's say I am being targetted by 2x medium neuts. In 24 seconds they would kill 720 cap. But with 28% resistance, I'd resist 28%, saving me 201 cap from being killed in that 24 second period. With more neuts targetting you, the more the cap the battery saves from neuting.

So the cap battery gives me extra 348 cap per 24 seconds, and saves me 201 cap from 2x medium neuts on me, which means i'm 549 cap better off as a result of the cap battery in 24 seconds. Still not anywhere near so good as having a cap booster, sadly. I think you would need like 4 or 5 medium neuts targetting you before the large cap battery is as good as a cap booster.

Hmm, is there any point at all in using a large cap battery for pvp then, instead of a cap booster? I can't really see it.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2 - 2017-01-15 18:19:14 UTC
I'll leave this here and you may do with it what you willBlink

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Andaria
Doomheim
#3 - 2017-01-15 18:27:07 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
I'll leave this here and you may do with it what you willBlink


I know this fit, i've got a dual XL ancil fit. Trying some other things out :)
Andaria
Doomheim
#4 - 2017-01-15 18:29:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Andaria
got the answer
Captain NONECK
Know-Nothings
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#5 - 2017-01-15 22:44:05 UTC
Andaria wrote:
I'm running an active shield booster tank sleipnir for pvp.

I've been using a cap booster but i'm wondering about using a large cap battery instead. Thukker large cap battery gives +1755 to cap and 28% 'cap warfare resistance bonus'.

The T2 medium cap booster gives me 800 cap, but i can only use it once every 24 seconds or so. That's because it only holds one charge and has to reload.

The large cap battery increases my cap recharge rate by 14.5 per second. Over 24 seconds that is 348 extra cap I receive as a result of having the cap battery. Obviously this is worse than the 800 I would have received from having 800 cap boosted from the cap booster.

However, the cap battery does give that 28% cap resistance bonus. I'm not entirely sure what that means as it previously was called 'reflection'. I'm assuming it means that neuts/nos will kill 28% less of my cap than they usually would. Also, if that cap drain reflect is still a thing, as a bonus my enemy would kill 28% of their own cap from nossing me. Don't know if that last part is still in game though.

So, a cap booster would give me quite a lot more cap per 24 seconds than a large cap battery would. But when we consider the 28% cap warfare resistance bonus, this could help in making up for the cap shortfall of the battery, in theory? For example let's say I am being targetted by 2x medium neuts. In 24 seconds they would kill 720 cap. But with 28% resistance, I'd resist 28%, saving me 201 cap from being killed in that 24 second period. With more neuts targetting you, the more the cap the battery saves from neuting.

So the cap battery gives me extra 348 cap per 24 seconds, and saves me 201 cap from 2x medium neuts on me, which means i'm 549 cap better off as a result of the cap battery in 24 seconds. Still not anywhere near so good as having a cap booster, sadly. I think you would need like 4 or 5 medium neuts targetting you before the large cap battery is as good as a cap booster.

Hmm, is there any point at all in using a large cap battery for pvp then, instead of a cap booster? I can't really see it.




you can always run dual cap booster if you want :P its a very good fit especially since you don't have to run fitting mods :)
Captain NONECK
Know-Nothings
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#6 - 2017-01-15 22:45:15 UTC
Andaria wrote:
I'm running an active shield booster tank sleipnir for pvp.

I've been using a cap booster but i'm wondering about using a large cap battery instead. Thukker large cap battery gives +1755 to cap and 28% 'cap warfare resistance bonus'.

The T2 medium cap booster gives me 800 cap, but i can only use it once every 24 seconds or so. That's because it only holds one charge and has to reload.

The large cap battery increases my cap recharge rate by 14.5 per second. Over 24 seconds that is 348 extra cap I receive as a result of having the cap battery. Obviously this is worse than the 800 I would have received from having 800 cap boosted from the cap booster.

However, the cap battery does give that 28% cap resistance bonus. I'm not entirely sure what that means as it previously was called 'reflection'. I'm assuming it means that neuts/nos will kill 28% less of my cap than they usually would. Also, if that cap drain reflect is still a thing, as a bonus my enemy would kill 28% of their own cap from nossing me. Don't know if that last part is still in game though.

So, a cap booster would give me quite a lot more cap per 24 seconds than a large cap battery would. But when we consider the 28% cap warfare resistance bonus, this could help in making up for the cap shortfall of the battery, in theory? For example let's say I am being targetted by 2x medium neuts. In 24 seconds they would kill 720 cap. But with 28% resistance, I'd resist 28%, saving me 201 cap from being killed in that 24 second period. With more neuts targetting you, the more the cap the battery saves from neuting.

So the cap battery gives me extra 348 cap per 24 seconds, and saves me 201 cap from 2x medium neuts on me, which means i'm 549 cap better off as a result of the cap battery in 24 seconds. Still not anywhere near so good as having a cap booster, sadly. I think you would need like 4 or 5 medium neuts targetting you before the large cap battery is as good as a cap booster.

Hmm, is there any point at all in using a large cap battery for pvp then, instead of a cap booster? I can't really see it.




you can always run dual cap booster if you want :P its a very good fit especially since you don't have to run fitting mods :)
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#7 - 2017-01-16 02:12:25 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
I'll leave this here and you may do with it what you willBlink


All old sleipnir fits are outdated, you really ought to run double links on it nowadays.
Illindar Tyrannus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2017-01-16 08:30:15 UTC
Compact large cap battery is viable on BC.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#9 - 2017-01-16 11:13:16 UTC
On topic, a cap battery is flat out worse then a cap booster in pretty much every single way - untill you run out of cap boosters. If you plan on long roams through nullsec or otherwise you think you will be in places where you dont have access to cap boosters use the cap battery. It also is better in some 1v1s where outlasting the cap boosters is an option and you dont have to consider neuts (cause a cap battery fit has 0 recovery, if you are getting neuted you are dead.


But in general, cap booster > cap battery by a lot. The cap battery is amazing on high cap regen cruisers like the vagabond or the tengu, but its not that good anywhere else. And the sleipnir really sort of sucks with a battery, youd have to use a gist type large booster - and even then you wouldnt be stable.


So, to get stable with a gist booster youd have to rely on either cap rigs or lowslots, both of which you really dont want to do. A cap booster allows you to run a pith type shield booster, which is a lot cheaper and tanks a lot more.


So either go cap booster or dual ancil booster in my opinion.
Andaria
Doomheim
#10 - 2017-01-16 12:40:45 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
On topic, a cap battery is flat out worse then a cap booster in pretty much every single way - untill you run out of cap boosters. If you plan on long roams through nullsec or otherwise you think you will be in places where you dont have access to cap boosters use the cap battery. It also is better in some 1v1s where outlasting the cap boosters is an option and you dont have to consider neuts (cause a cap battery fit has 0 recovery, if you are getting neuted you are dead.


But in general, cap booster > cap battery by a lot. The cap battery is amazing on high cap regen cruisers like the vagabond or the tengu, but its not that good anywhere else. And the sleipnir really sort of sucks with a battery, youd have to use a gist type large booster - and even then you wouldnt be stable.


So, to get stable with a gist booster youd have to rely on either cap rigs or lowslots, both of which you really dont want to do. A cap booster allows you to run a pith type shield booster, which is a lot cheaper and tanks a lot more.


So either go cap booster or dual ancil booster in my opinion.


What if you're not able to put your 100% attention on the pilot because you're multiboxing as a logistics or something also. Cap battery could be better in this circumstance? The extra micromanging of running the cap booster would cause some inefficiencies.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#11 - 2017-01-16 12:45:16 UTC  |  Edited by: W0lf Crendraven
Then the sleipnir is the wrong ship for you. Sleipnir + logi (or falcon or whatever) doesnt work at all, the sleipnir is a 1vmany ship, you wont get 1v1s (and if you do its either a snooze fest till either of you get backup or its a ship that can reach your logi/falcon or its a free win anways) and you can only ever tackle 1 ship, so the rest of the gang will kill your logi/falcon/whatever and then they will kill you. (and yes, sleipnir fleets work perfectly fine, but 1 sleipnir + 1 logi doesnt).

(edit: it would work somewhat, but it doesnt suit the ship very much)
Andaria
Doomheim
#12 - 2017-01-17 15:27:30 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Then the sleipnir is the wrong ship for you. Sleipnir + logi (or falcon or whatever) doesnt work at all, the sleipnir is a 1vmany ship, you wont get 1v1s (and if you do its either a snooze fest till either of you get backup or its a ship that can reach your logi/falcon or its a free win anways) and you can only ever tackle 1 ship, so the rest of the gang will kill your logi/falcon/whatever and then they will kill you. (and yes, sleipnir fleets work perfectly fine, but 1 sleipnir + 1 logi doesnt).

(edit: it would work somewhat, but it doesnt suit the ship very much)


Was just an example. What if it's because you're multiboxing 2 Sleipnirs in the fight?
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#13 - 2017-01-17 15:33:45 UTC
Thats a skill issue, i cant answer that. Go onto the test server and try it out.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#14 - 2017-01-17 16:22:21 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Then the sleipnir is the wrong ship for you. Sleipnir + logi (or falcon or whatever) doesnt work at all, the sleipnir is a 1vmany ship, you wont get 1v1s (and if you do its either a snooze fest till either of you get backup or its a ship that can reach your logi/falcon or its a free win anways) and you can only ever tackle 1 ship, so the rest of the gang will kill your logi/falcon/whatever and then they will kill you. (and yes, sleipnir fleets work perfectly fine, but 1 sleipnir + 1 logi doesnt).

(edit: it would work somewhat, but it doesnt suit the ship very much)



I dual box sleipnirs (and everything else for that matter). They work great in pairs. A cap battery in lieu of a booster is a worthy consideration for dual boxing.

I find your defacto answers troubling. You live in a very narrow world that is mostly black and white. Such a pity to not take in all the pretty colors and things around you.

OP - the bottom line is that sleipnirs while not super cheap aren't that bad either. Pick a fit, play it until it goes poof then try another one. When losing a ship in pvp we need to remember that the pvp part is the fun part. The winning is just some extra goodness that happens from time to time.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#15 - 2017-01-18 10:10:17 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Then the sleipnir is the wrong ship for you. Sleipnir + logi (or falcon or whatever) doesnt work at all, the sleipnir is a 1vmany ship, you wont get 1v1s (and if you do its either a snooze fest till either of you get backup or its a ship that can reach your logi/falcon or its a free win anways) and you can only ever tackle 1 ship, so the rest of the gang will kill your logi/falcon/whatever and then they will kill you. (and yes, sleipnir fleets work perfectly fine, but 1 sleipnir + 1 logi doesnt).

(edit: it would work somewhat, but it doesnt suit the ship very much)




I find your defacto answers troubling. You live in a very narrow world that is mostly black and white. Such a pity to not take in all the pretty colors and things around you.



That doesnt really make sense.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#16 - 2017-01-18 12:23:28 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Then the sleipnir is the wrong ship for you. Sleipnir + logi (or falcon or whatever) doesnt work at all, the sleipnir is a 1vmany ship, you wont get 1v1s (and if you do its either a snooze fest till either of you get backup or its a ship that can reach your logi/falcon or its a free win anways) and you can only ever tackle 1 ship, so the rest of the gang will kill your logi/falcon/whatever and then they will kill you. (and yes, sleipnir fleets work perfectly fine, but 1 sleipnir + 1 logi doesnt).

(edit: it would work somewhat, but it doesnt suit the ship very much)




I find your defacto answers troubling. You live in a very narrow world that is mostly black and white. Such a pity to not take in all the pretty colors and things around you.



That doesnt really make sense.



I know.
Switch Savage
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2017-01-18 13:49:22 UTC
Listen to Wolf not the other drivel coming out of this thread.

A large cap battery on a Sleip is sup par for just about every scenario. If you are struggling to dual box effectively then do not use a sub par fit, instead look for a setup that functions better with less APM.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#18 - 2017-01-18 14:22:08 UTC
Switch Savage wrote:
Listen to Wolf not the other drivel coming out of this thread.

A large cap battery on a Sleip is sup par for just about every scenario. If you are struggling to dual box effectively then do not use a sub par fit, instead look for a setup that functions better with less APM.



He speaks the truth. Also - only fit X-type mods to further distance yourself from sub par fits. FIT TO WIN!!!!


If the struggling part is directed at me - meh. I've dual boxed most of my decade of playing Eve. It's only recently that I haven't thoroughly enjoyed the game in general and pvp in specific. STRUGGLE isn't a word I would use to describe the great times I've had dual boxing pvp.

The don't log in much part is primarily due to CCPs perceived need to erode the game over time by listening to the wrong folks and then making big changes to the game. The final blow for me was CCPs decision to have Citadels use space magic and not drop loot. It's a change that affected the game on a very basic level. I've tried several times (after a decade of enjoying the game with zero breaks) to start logging in again, but the game just doesn't feel the same knowing that CCP now safeguards all of SOV nulls assets for no good reason.

Sorry for the personal ramblings, just pointing out I struggle with logging in, not dual boxing pvp.


OP - again, try things out. Lose a few ships on the way and have a good time doing it. There is no 'the fit' for a sleip or any other ship for that matter. I recommend you merge you fitting knowledge with your play style and use the best fit for you. For example: I'm primarily a brawler and really don't like kiting. My ideal fit for a lot of ships lends to that. Arty sleipnirs are great ships but I doubt you'll ever see me in one. I hope you see what I'm getting at.
Switch Savage
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2017-01-18 16:51:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Switch Savage
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Switch Savage wrote:
Listen to Wolf not the other drivel coming out of this thread.

A large cap battery on a Sleip is sup par for just about every scenario. If you are struggling to dual box effectively then do not use a sub par fit, instead look for a setup that functions better with less APM.



He speaks the truth. Also - only fit X-type mods to further distance yourself from sub par fits. FIT TO WIN!!!!


If the struggling part is directed at me - meh. I've dual boxed most of my decade of playing Eve. It's only recently that I haven't thoroughly enjoyed the game in general and pvp in specific. STRUGGLE isn't a word I would use to describe the great times I've had dual boxing pvp.

The don't log in much part is primarily due to CCPs perceived need to erode the game over time by listening to the wrong folks and then making big changes to the game. The final blow for me was CCPs decision to have Citadels use space magic and not drop loot. It's a change that affected the game on a very basic level. I've tried several times (after a decade of enjoying the game with zero breaks) to start logging in again, but the game just doesn't feel the same knowing that CCP now safeguards all of SOV nulls assets for no good reason.

Sorry for the personal ramblings, just pointing out I struggle with logging in, not dual boxing pvp.


OP - again, try things out. Lose a few ships on the way and have a good time doing it. There is no 'the fit' for a sleip or any other ship for that matter. I recommend you merge you fitting knowledge with your play style and use the best fit for you. For example: I'm primarily a brawler and really don't like kiting. My ideal fit for a lot of ships lends to that. Arty sleipnirs are great ships but I doubt you'll ever see me in one. I hope you see what I'm getting at.


Was not aimed at you. Just stating a fact if you are going to cap battery a Sleipnir purely to help with dual boxing it is sub par and there are other setups that would be better overall.

I agree with fitting things around your playstyle however it is important to know if a fit you are running is sup par and the reasons why. That way you can make an informed decision and not be left scratching your head when it does not perform as well a more standardised fit.