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Free Fire

Author
78 Aster
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2017-01-15 06:14:36 UTC
The most random idea I've had as of late... Since you can manually pilot your ship why not be able to manual fire your guns? Very few people use the manual piloting but it has its uses, like when your ship keeps bumping into the geometry you can just manually move out of it. This basic way of firing would also get around something slightly annoying as well, poor tracking speed. Now, this is not a way around tracking, it as actually hard as **** to do... but, it's nice to have the option and brings back an old feature from a series this game was based on (X, X2, X3, X4, and the variants of the game series).

As an addition you could also see who is the best pilot in space, being able to both fly and shoot manually at the same time. Drones would fly on their own as usual of course... so... don't use them in these competitions.

Just a minor addition for those that want a throwback or increased difficulty.

Born Caldari, Raised Minmatar

Fek Mercer
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2017-01-15 06:48:04 UTC
It could be interesting... but you have to remember that physicalized gunplay is a very taxing calculation. We also wouldn't want to mess with something like tracking speed in unpredictable ways. As cool and skillful as it would be to hit a frigate moving at tau rads per second with heavy artillery, the cries of bullshit would probably be justified.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#3 - 2017-01-15 07:47:48 UTC
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!

lets forget the tottal rework needed to do this. do you want the hamsters to just up and quit? i don't think you understand the technical side behind what you are asking.


also

78 Aster wrote:
Very few people use the manual piloting




you are not going to get far in solo/small gang pvp w/o manual piloting
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#4 - 2017-01-15 08:55:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
I believe they are meaning the WASD manual piloting, not the old style manual piloting that normally gets used :)
Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
#5 - 2017-01-15 10:28:09 UTC
I know the removal of the IGB could be seen as a precedent, but outsourcing aiming to third party software might be a bit much.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#6 - 2017-01-15 12:25:04 UTC
Same issue as collision checks. This will burn the poor hamsters.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2017-01-15 17:38:57 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Same issue as collision checks. This will burn the poor hamsters.

or worse it could finally push them to unionize!!
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#8 - 2017-01-15 18:16:44 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Same issue as collision checks. This will burn the poor hamsters.

or worse it could finally push them to unionize!!

we all know where those lead.

unions, the gateway clandestine organisation
78 Aster
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2017-01-15 19:45:13 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!

lets forget the tottal rework needed to do this. do you want the hamsters to just up and quit? i don't think you understand the technical side behind what you are asking.


also

78 Aster wrote:
Very few people use the manual piloting




you are not going to get far in solo/small gang pvp w/o manual piloting


technical? it's just looking at them and shooting like an FPS, I never intended for it to be the whole system, that would be too much. look up the X series like X3: Reunion, it's that kind of shooting, and it was able to be done in 1990 I think so it doesn't seem that technical, it can be done with an If== then argument in basic

Born Caldari, Raised Minmatar

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#10 - 2017-01-15 21:17:28 UTC
78 Aster wrote:
technical? it's just looking at them and shooting like an FPS, I never intended for it to be the whole system, that would be too much. look up the X series like X3: Reunion, it's that kind of shooting, and it was able to be done in 1990 I think so it doesn't seem that technical, it can be done with an If== then argument in basic


so scrap the back end code and suspend most development in EVE to spend years of development time so the minor group that would use this can fire manually?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#11 - 2017-01-15 22:38:35 UTC
FPS's run at about 50 times the pace EVE does, at least 50 times. In effect you would drop the number of people a grid could handle by a factor of at least 50 in order to make this possible, so you would get TiDi with 10 people on grid on a non reinforced node, and reinforced nodes would up and die at 100 people most of the time.
That's assuming CCP could even make this technically possible on the current code base.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#12 - 2017-01-15 22:55:16 UTC
78 Aster wrote:
technical? it's just looking at them and shooting like an FPS, I never intended for it to be the whole system, that would be too much. look up the X series like X3: Reunion, it's that kind of shooting, and it was able to be done in 1990 I think so it doesn't seem that technical, it can be done with an If== then argument in basic

Yeah see... there are a two critical things you have to know about EVE.

1. What you see and what the server sees are two different things.
----- You see physical ships, moving weapons, and firing arcs.
----- The server merely sees stat-filled spheres with "lines" between two ships that have targeted each other and a "line" based on your ship's trajectory. Nothing more.
----------------- These "lines" between each ship do not interact with anything between the targeting ship and target ship (for lower calculation load).

What you are asking for are "line-of-sight" mechanics.
And while that is okay and doable on a small scale... it quickly becomes a problem when you have dozens or even hundreds of intractable things all moving and jostling around.
And the sever will need to perform a "check" on everything for each "line" that is moving around.


2. The game runs at a 1 second "tick" rate.
This means that the server will receive, process, calculate, extrapolate, and send the results of any command (or series of commands) to the client on your computer once every second.

No BS.

This is the tradeoff for having a "single shard" environment that everyone around the globe has access to.
It keeps people on the same page regardless of geographic location (allowing Aussie players to be competitive against British players) and affords the server time to process VAST amounts of information without murdering its own circuit boards (by restricting the amount of input that can be received at any given time).

To put it in laymen's terms; imagine playing a first person shooter at 1 frame per second. That is how fast EVE reacts to your inputs.

And yes... CCP does have a very, VERY mighty server cluster running EVE. If I recall correctly, it is a decommissioned military supercomputer. Or something along those lines.




Understand... there is a reason that First Person Shooter games have population and geographic restrictions.
To play a First Person Shooter optimally you need a "tick" rate in the milliseconds.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#13 - 2017-01-15 23:04:13 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:

And yes... CCP does have a very, VERY mighty server cluster running EVE. If I recall correctly, it is a decommissioned military supercomputer. Or something along those lines.

TQ3 is even better. TQ3 is basically an experimental test bed for computer manufacturers to see how far they can take things. They put all the details up in a Dev blog a while back, and it's insane.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#14 - 2017-01-15 23:05:33 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:

And yes... CCP does have a very, VERY mighty server cluster running EVE. If I recall correctly, it is a decommissioned military supercomputer. Or something along those lines.

TQ3 is even better. TQ3 is basically an experimental test bed for computer manufacturers to see how far they can take things. They put all the details up in a Dev blog a while back, and it's insane.

Linky so I can pleasure myself to some sexy stats. Big smile
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#15 - 2017-01-15 23:13:18 UTC
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#16 - 2017-01-15 23:20:34 UTC
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#17 - 2017-01-15 23:50:05 UTC
78 Aster wrote:


technical? it's just looking at them and shooting like an FPS, I never intended for it to be the whole system, that would be too much. look up the X series like X3: Reunion, it's that kind of shooting, and it was able to be done in 1990 I think so it doesn't seem that technical, it can be done with an If== then argument in basic


It still cannot be done on the scale of eve.

The most ive seen a modern fps handle is 64 players. Some fights in eve involve over 4000 players.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2017-01-15 23:55:45 UTC
Would it even be physically possible to hit anything? How are you going to lead a target orbiting you at 5km/s when you are moving at 1km/s in a different direction with a weapon that doesn't even have a travel time?
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#19 - 2017-01-16 00:26:07 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Would it even be physically possible to hit anything? How are you going to lead a target orbiting you at 5km/s when you are moving at 1km/s in a different direction with a weapon that doesn't even have a travel time?


My thoughts exactly...probablyy just a minor detail...
Lugh Crow-Slave
#20 - 2017-01-16 01:49:52 UTC
78 Aster wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!

lets forget the tottal rework needed to do this. do you want the hamsters to just up and quit? i don't think you understand the technical side behind what you are asking.


also

78 Aster wrote:
Very few people use the manual piloting




you are not going to get far in solo/small gang pvp w/o manual piloting


technical? it's just looking at them and shooting like an FPS, I never intended for it to be the whole system, that would be too much. look up the X series like X3: Reunion, it's that kind of shooting, and it was able to be done in 1990 I think so it doesn't seem that technical, it can be done with an If== then argument in basic



oh so nothing technical just requiring an entire rework of eves engine.... nope nothing technical about thatRoll
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