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Do we need Real Money to build Titan and Citadel?

First post
Author
Sylvia Carpenter
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2017-01-15 01:44:50 UTC
So I have been promoting Eve to my friends. I told them that there is no "COINS" in Eve, so basically Eve is not Pay To Win game.
But they said that we still need Real Money to build big things such as Titan and Citadel.
Is that true?
Rogwar Toralen
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#2 - 2017-01-15 01:46:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Rogwar Toralen
Not true. Just time. Which is a good idea to think about how you will use and protect such things beforehand. However, you can buy PLEX to convert to isk though and speed all sorts of things along. You can speed yourself right into incompetence as well.

When you combine deep pockets, unbridled enthusiasm and incompetence in Eve there's no end to what amazing stuff you can lose.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#3 - 2017-01-15 01:50:40 UTC
News reports tend to give assets that valuable a 'real money' figure as readers who aren't EVE players can therefore relate to the value.
But it's all earned in game by playing the game, not by paying CCP for a titan.
Sylvia Carpenter
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2017-01-15 01:50:41 UTC
Rogwar Toralen wrote:
Not true. Just time.


The only thing I can imagine is to buy PLEX with real money, sell in in game, and use the ISK to buy resources needed.
But is it a normal way for corps to do that? I hope it is not.
Akali Mid
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2017-01-15 01:54:34 UTC
Yes, this game is 100% pay2 win.

Buy plex with irl money, sell plex for isk, buy citadel, buy titan.


What else is there to talk about.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#6 - 2017-01-15 01:56:38 UTC
You would need to be on an omega account to build or use a titan, so technically you would have to pay. You could also technically grind the 80bil+ to buy one on a free account but that would be quite frankly silly. An approach that uses the best of both would be use a free account to grind ~1bil isk and buy a PLEX upgrading that account to omega status and use that omega status to continue grinding isk for more plex and for savings to buy your citadel/titan. IMO it is much easier to just sub the game for a while as you learn it, and ~6months-1year in decide if you want to try and PLEX the account.

the game is based on a subscription model, you need to pay this subscription to access a large portion of the game, however there is nothing requiring payment to win. There is no "gold ammo" Although you can buy plex to sell to other players, this allows people to turn rl cash into game items, however I don't see a direct link between that and "winning"

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Sylvia Carpenter
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2017-01-15 01:57:11 UTC
Akali Mid wrote:
Yes, this game is 100% pay2 win.

Buy plex with irl money, sell plex for isk, buy citadel, buy titan.
What else is there to talk about.


You mean people spend $7,600 just to build a Titan? Why don't we t just play Eve normally and build it from mining, business, etc.
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#8 - 2017-01-15 01:57:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Sylvia Carpenter wrote:
The only thing I can imagine is to buy PLEX with real money, sell in in game, and use the ISK to buy resources needed.
But is it a normal way for corps to do that? I hope it is not.

I know of several players that have used their credit card to buy PLEX to buy a Titan.

The only way to build a Titan or a Keepstar or other asset in the game is to mine/acquire all the resources in the game also. Cash doesn't generate minerals.

So ultimately, Titans, etc. are built using no extra cash than what people use to subscribe their accounts. It's just a short cut method people use in order to acquire them without having to mine, etc.

Is it normal? I don't think so, but it's a hard question to answer.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#9 - 2017-01-15 02:00:10 UTC
Sylvia Carpenter wrote:
Akali Mid wrote:
Yes, this game is 100% pay2 win.

Buy plex with irl money, sell plex for isk, buy citadel, buy titan.
What else is there to talk about.


You mean people spend $7,600 just to build a Titan? Why don't we t just play Eve normally and build it from mining, business, etc.



The vast majority of people do just play normally. Are there some who buy with real money? Maybe. They'd be a tiny tiny minority.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#10 - 2017-01-15 02:08:59 UTC
I am a solo player with that could easily put up a Citadel and keep it fed for a long, long time by just doing missions and mining.

Defend it solo? Well, no. But that isnt' the point is it?

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#11 - 2017-01-15 02:11:38 UTC
Sylvia Carpenter wrote:
Rogwar Toralen wrote:
Not true. Just time.


The only thing I can imagine is to buy PLEX with real money, sell in in game, and use the ISK to buy resources needed.
But is it a normal way for corps to do that? I hope it is not.

No... it is not.

Understand that EVERY SHIP AND MODULE IN THE GAME has to be built or harvested by players.

That ship you bought? It was built by a player.
And the minerals that went into building that ship? Processed from ore by a player.
And the ore that was processed? Had to be harvested and moved by a player.



With supercapitals (see: Titans and Supercarriers) specifically...

- you can only build them in 0.0 space you own (which means you had to conquer that space and put up your alliance's "flag").

- they can only be built with specific equipment (which also has to be built and set up by players).

- they take months to "bake" (no "pop the components in the oven for 10 minutes and you have a ship" thing here... you have to protect the place the ship is being built at while it is under construction).


PLEX** is only good for getting ISK... and ISK will only help you so much.
To build and protect large structures and ships is a team effort that requires A LOT of time and effort.



**Note: PLEX is designed as a way to fight Real Money Trading. The idea is that you buy a PLEX (worth 30 days of game time) and sell it to a player that is really good at making tons of ISK (which is no small feat, but is possible).

In effect... you are paying for the "subscription" of another player in exchange for in-game currency.
Sethyrh Nakrar
#12 - 2017-01-15 02:20:28 UTC
Sylvia Carpenter wrote:
So I have been promoting Eve to my friends. I told them that there is no "COINS" in Eve, so basically Eve is not Pay To Win game.
But they said that we still need Real Money to build big things such as Titan and Citadel.
Is that true?

If you invest time and recources instead, no. Also, owning a supercap and mastering it are different things entirely.

Praise the Omnissiah!

Sylvia Carpenter
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2017-01-15 02:22:12 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Sylvia Carpenter wrote:
Rogwar Toralen wrote:
Not true. Just time.


The only thing I can imagine is to buy PLEX with real money, sell in in game, and use the ISK to buy resources needed.
But is it a normal way for corps to do that? I hope it is not.

No... it is not.

Understand that EVERY SHIP AND MODULE IN THE GAME has to be built or harvested by players.

That ship you bought? It was built by a player.
And the minerals that went into building that ship? Processed from ore by a player.
And the ore that was processed? Had to be harvested and moved by a player.

PLEX** is only good for getting ISK... and ISK will only help you so much.
To build and protect large structures and ships is a team effort that requires A LOT of time and effort.


**Note: PLEX is designed as a way to fight Real Money Trading. The idea is that you buy a PLEX (worth 30 days of game time) and sell it to a player that is really good at making tons of ISK (which is no small feat, but is possible).

In effect... you are paying for the "subscription" of another player in exchange for in-game currency.


Thanks Shah. I got the concept. And I am amazed by it. I salute CCP for letting Eve universe goes by its own almost completely. But for non-Eve players where they play a PAY TO WIN game, when the game company periodically sells SHIP DEALS and COINS promotion, Eve mechanics is very difficult for them to understand.

I have been trying to recruit my Clan mates into Eve, but so far no success.
Akali Mid
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2017-01-15 02:30:36 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Buldath
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Sylvia Carpenter wrote:
Akali Mid wrote:
Yes, this game is 100% pay2 win.

Buy plex with irl money, sell plex for isk, buy citadel, buy titan.
What else is there to talk about.


You mean people spend $7,600 just to build a Titan? Why don't we t just play Eve normally and build it from mining, business, etc.



The vast majority of people do just play normally. Are there some who buy with real money? Maybe. They'd be a tiny tiny minority.



Yea like every *snip* plex you buy with isk to sub your shity account is from that people.

EVERY single plex on the market subbing poor ignorant people accounts is from that people.

"a tiny tiny minority"


Most likely if it wasnt for all that people selling plex for isk you wouldnt even be playing this game, let alone mining to buy a titan.

*Snip* Dont try to get around the censor*snip* ~Buldath
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#15 - 2017-01-15 02:46:41 UTC
Akali Mid wrote:
Yea like every fuking plex you buy with isk to sub your shity account is from that people.

EVERY single plex on the market subbing poor ignorant people accounts is from that people.

"a tiny tiny minority"


Most likely if it wasnt for all that people selling plex for isk you wouldnt even be playing this game, let alone mining to buy a titan.

Fuking ignorant.

For some reason I suspect this thread was a lie:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6780398#post6780398

You seem more like an alt than an enthusiastic new player. Probably some sad antiganker's alt.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Sylvia Carpenter
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2017-01-15 02:47:20 UTC
Akali Mid wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
[quote=Sylvia Carpenter][quote=Akali Mid]Yes, this game is 100% pay2 win.

The vast majority of people do just play normally. Are there some who buy with real money? Maybe. They'd be a tiny tiny minority.



Yea like every fuking plex you buy with isk to sub your shity account is from that people.
EVERY single plex on the market subbing poor ignorant people accounts is from that people.

"a tiny tiny minority"

Most likely if it wasnt for all that people selling plex for isk you wouldnt even be playing this game, let alone mining to buy a titan.
Fuking ignorant.


You mean PLEX contributes significantly to EVE survival as a game? Is there any data on how much PLEX bought with Real Money?

P.S. Why are you angry?
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#17 - 2017-01-15 02:57:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Sylvia Carpenter wrote:
Is there any data on how much PLEX bought with Real Money?

CCP's financial statements contain a listing of the amount of PLEX in the game as part of their liabiities under a heading of 'deferred revenue'.

From the 2015 Financial statement that was about USD $3.3 million purchased but not yet consumed, representing a rough number of >165,000 that are currently either in the game or with third-party sellers waiting to be sold:

http://marketsforisk.blogspot.com.au/2016/04/ccp-financial-statements-for-2015-review.html

In terms of the total purchased since PLEX was introduced, no we don't know the exact number. It would be in the tens of millions of dollars.
Sylvia Carpenter
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2017-01-15 03:02:04 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Sylvia Carpenter wrote:
Is there any data on how much PLEX bought with Real Money?

CCP's financial statements contain a listing of the amount of PLEX in the game as part of their liabiities under a heading of 'deferred liabilities'.

From the 2015 Financial statement that was about USD $3.3 million purchased but not yet consumed, representing a rough number of >165,000 that are currently either in the game or with third-party sellers waiting to be sold:

http://marketsforisk.blogspot.com.au/2016/04/ccp-financial-statements-for-2015-review.html

In terms of the total purchased since PLEX was introduced, no we don't know the exact number. It would be in the tens of millions of dollars.


Thanks. Good to know. I hope it gives enough financial health for CCP to keep developing Eve. I really hope I could still play the game when I am retired in the next 15 years. I love it.
Memphis Baas
#19 - 2017-01-15 03:08:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Sylvia Carpenter wrote:
But they said that we still need Real Money to build big things such as Titan and Citadel.


Tell your friends to forget about titans and citadels. The are not supposed to be achievable solo, so if you try it's just ridiculous.

It's like:

So, World of Warcraft, you can have weapons, you can have purple armor, you can cast spells, you can fly on the back of a griffon, you can...

I want to build a city.

Wait, what? No you can't build a city solo, you need ..

I WANT TO BUILD A CITY! MY OWN CITY!

But, I mean, you'd need players to put together their money and houses and build a wall and...

NO, JUST ME. I want my own city built by just me alone, where I'm the Princess and nobody else is in the city.

But, a city is for many people...

JUST ME!!!!!!!!

Ok well, what do you think? Yeah? Yeah. Ok so, yeah, we'll make it possible, but that will cost 500,000 dollars.

What? That's ridiculous! Your game is P2W! And it sucks! Everything about it sucks!
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#20 - 2017-01-15 03:09:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Sylvia Carpenter wrote:
Thanks. Good to know. I hope it gives enough financial health for CCP to keep developing Eve. I really hope I could still play the game when I am retired in the next 15 years. I love it.

My understanding is that paid subscriptions are still a much larger percentage of their income, though I'm not sure I can validate that view.

In a recent interview (for the Ascension release), CCP Seagull mentioned there are about 400,000 subscribers, but I don't know what percentage are paid with credit card versus PLEXed.


EDIT: and of course, when I want it, I can't find the interview with the 400,000 figure again.
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