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Why are there no missiles in Minmatar LP stores?
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Boozbaz
Securitech Industries
#1 - 2017-01-06 23:05:21 UTC
There are good missile ships in the Minmatar T1 and T2 lineup: Breacher, Bellicose, Scythe Fleet Issue, Cyclone, Claymore, Typhoon... this makes sense after all, missiles are the Minmatar's secondary weapon system.

Similarly, hybrid weapons are the Caldari's secondary weapon system.

Why do the Caldari get access to Hybrid charges in their LP store, but Minmatar don't get access to missiles?

I mean, even look at this: There's both a Republic Fleet Ballistic Control Unit and a Caldari Navy Ballistic Control Unit. So why no Republic Fleet Missiles?

Main reason I'm griping, is because my standings are bad with Caldari but good with Minmatar. But I can't convert Minmatar LP into good faction missiles. :(

If a Caldari pilot has terrible standings with Gallente, it's no big deal because they can still buy hybrid charges from their own LP store.

PS. Why don't Minmatar LP Stores offer stasis webifiers? Webifiers are predominantly considered to be a Minmatar faction form of EWAR... but instead the Gallente Navy have it in their LP store and Minmatar have Scrams/Points, which seems backwards.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2017-01-07 02:49:36 UTC
Next step in tiericide: Loyalty Point Stores.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#3 - 2017-01-07 07:53:46 UTC
Boozbaz wrote:
Main reason I'm griping, is because my standings are bad with Caldari but good with Minmatar. But I can't convert Minmatar LP into good faction missiles. :(

Except for "Why not" and RP (which both won't contribute to big sales), who would buy Republic Fleet missiles over Caldari Navy missiles unless you sell RF missiles under the value of CN missiles, which in turn makes your LP worth less.

The same thing already happens with CN and FN hybrid ammo. The vast majority of faction hybrid ammo sales are CN, FN only gets into the spot light when someone bought a massive chunk of CN so that FN is cheaper for a brief moment in time.

@Reaver Tiericide usually means less clutter, not introduction of more clutter.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2017-01-07 08:31:14 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
who would buy Republic Fleet missiles over Caldari Navy missiles

People in Minmatar space. When I lived in Gallente space, I would buy Federation Navy hybrid ammo because it was significantly cheaper than Caldari Navy hybrid ammo due to being locally supplied. I also used the local LP stores to buy ammo directly sometimes.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Boozbaz
Securitech Industries
#5 - 2017-01-07 09:06:57 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
who would buy Republic Fleet missiles over Caldari Navy missiles unless you sell RF missiles under the value of CN missiles, which in turn makes your LP worth less.

The same thing already happens with CN and FN hybrid ammo. The vast majority of faction hybrid ammo sales are CN, FN only gets into the spot light when someone bought a massive chunk of CN so that FN is cheaper for a brief moment in time.

@Reaver Tiericide usually means less clutter, not introduction of more clutter.


People in Minmatar space, like myself. I would convert my Minmatar LP into republic fleet missiles. I also wouldn't need to pay the exorbant prices for the caldari navy missiles in Hek. I also wouldn't need to risk flying into Caldari or Amarr regions of space to buy my stuff and get shot at by the empire navy.
Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2017-01-07 10:24:26 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
The same thing already happens with CN and FN hybrid ammo. The vast majority of faction hybrid ammo sales are CN, FN only gets into the spot light when someone bought a massive chunk of CN so that FN is cheaper for a brief moment in time.

Aren't these exactly the same? Same attributes, same LP cost, they made of the same basic ammo, what's the real difference? People do more caldari missions than gallente to get LP?

If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!

But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.
voetius
Grundrisse
#7 - 2017-01-07 11:16:56 UTC
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
The same thing already happens with CN and FN hybrid ammo. The vast majority of faction hybrid ammo sales are CN, FN only gets into the spot light when someone bought a massive chunk of CN so that FN is cheaper for a brief moment in time.

Aren't these exactly the same? Same attributes, same LP cost, they made of the same basic ammo, what's the real difference? People do more caldari missions than gallente to get LP?


It's a historical thing. At one time EFT used Caldari Navy hybrid charges as the default and consequently the loadouts that you saw posted on forums always had CN charges. People just got used to always seeing that. Like Reaver above, I always buy Fed Navy as it is almost always cheaper than CN and has the same stats.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2017-01-07 18:58:40 UTC
voetius wrote:
Like Reaver above, I always buy Fed Navy as it is almost always cheaper than CN and has the same stats.

It's about geography. Fed Navy ammo is generally cheaper in Dodixie and Rens, and Cal Navy is generally cheaper in Jita and Amarr. I just checked EVE-Central for some prices on faction Antimatter M:

Caldari Navy
Jita: 646.98
Dodixie: 694.89

Federation Navy
Jita: 655.24
Dodixie: 689.98

Currently, Cal Navy Antimatter M is the cheaper ammo in Dodixie, which could be due to freighter traffic moving from Jita to Dodixie. But either ammo is more expensive where it doesn't come from, thus the price margin between the two in Dodixie is smaller. But it can also be heavily affected by demand--if everybody defaults to Cal Navy ammo regardless of price, then Cal Navy will be hauled in more often, and it'll wind up cheaper than Fed Navy.

But if you go away from the major trade hubs, geography becomes a bigger issue. Out in deep Verge Vendor for instance, you'll tend to find Fed Navy ammo cheaper than Cal Navy ammo as well as more available. Masalle is the only high sec system in Verge Vendor selling Cal Navy Antimatter M, but you can buy Fed Navy in Masalle and Sortet, plus the much more actively-traveled systems Alentene and Aidart.

Caldari Navy
Masalle: 985.55

Federation Navy
Masalle: 899.96 (-8.68%)
Sortet: 848.98
Aidart: 844.99
Alentene: 844.95 (-14.27%)


As it stands, Caldari Navy missiles are not readily available in deep Minmatar space, and they're generally pretty expensive out there. It would be a lot easier for pilots to live out there and fly Minmatar missile ships like the Cyclone if there were missiles in the Minmatar LP stores. And when supply wasn't available, mission-runners could supply their own missiles and perhaps even sell a few.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2017-01-07 21:22:52 UTC
I agree with the OP, all factions should be able to manufacture their own ammo. Implementing this wouldn't need much work, corps that already sell ammo should get these new missiles. There is no balance issue either, as this should have the exact same stats as the caldari version.
The only downside I can imagine is faction missiles becoming somewhat cheaper as there would be a much bigger industry behind them to produce.

If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!

But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.
Cristl
#10 - 2017-01-09 15:55:16 UTC
I feel sure that this is an oversight - there should definitely be missiles in the Minmatar LP store. It's never crossed my mind before.

+1
Cade Windstalker
#11 - 2017-01-09 16:07:09 UTC
Seems quite reasonable, especially given that Caldari get Hybrid charges in their LP store.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2017-01-11 17:15:20 UTC
Cristl wrote:
I feel sure that this is an oversight

It's now an oversight, but originally it made more sense. When LP stores came out, Caldari were the only missile race. Not counting Stealth Bombers, Minmatar had all of about two missile ships, the Rapier and the Typhoon, if memory serves me correctly. Amarr was the same, with the Inquisitor and Sacrilege. Both Amarr and Minmatar commonly had drone and missile hardpoints laying around extra on ships that were dedicated to lasers or projectiles, but in Tiericide CCP specialized the two races and gave missiles to Minmatar--probably because they already had more leftover missile hardpoints on ships like the Rifter, Thrasher, Rupture, Bellicose, Cyclone, Hurricane, and Tempest.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Boozbaz
Securitech Industries
#13 - 2017-01-11 18:35:10 UTC
Did Caldari have hybrid charges in their LP store at the beginning, or were they added later on?
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2017-01-11 22:35:15 UTC
Boozbaz wrote:
Did Caldari have hybrid charges in their LP store at the beginning, or were they added later on?

Most likely immediately, though I wasn't there to verify. Caldari have been sharing hybrids with Gallente from the beginning.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."