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Massive npc corp standing hit for pod killing

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Caldari State
#21 - 2017-01-10 08:31:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Sugar Smacks
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Sugar Smacks wrote:
Neuntausend wrote:
Sugar Smacks wrote:
I don't get how I am supposed to fix this. I went to the NPC corp but it says to even take a level 1 mission that I have to join the war.

Does that mean I have to join factional warfare to even be able to do level 1 missions?

Whatever happened to being able to do level 1 missions no matter what?

About as clear as mud.

What's the Corp? Sounds like NPC Militia to me, in which case, unless you intend to join factional warfare on that side it really doesn't matter.


It appears to be that way, but the problem is I have done so much to keep my standings up with that character to a very large portion of corporations, the fact I am now stuck with negative standings which can only be fixed by making more negative standings with someone else is stupid.

This does not encourage me to continue to do anything down this path further, or really, to continue to invest large amounts of time to play EvE.

While most people do one thing or another, this is what I did, and to be completely screwed by shooting someone who is flashy yellow is a little much. Then to further complicate it that it cant be repaired unless I lose some other standing that I worked hard on does not encourage playing.

I just wish CCP cared about the hard work I did as much as I do, but apparently I was wrong to bother. Congrats CCP you allowed a entire new level of griefing to destroy years of work and you aren't doing anything about it.

This is where I see myself out of EvE.



Maybe you shouldn't engage in PvP untly you know how it work?
You podded him without checking his allegiance. If he had been with a player corp you could have received a wardec. As he is a part of a NPC corp you received a huge standing loss with that corp.



I should not have to worry about killing a flashy person period, the fact is he could of attacked me and if I had killed him the results would have been the same. This is not acceptable, it is also stupid that you could exploit this mechanic and it is deemed normal gameplay.

Apparently you worry about war decs, I don't, but standings I do care about since they take so long to grind. Letting players be able to negatively change my standing with an NPC corp especially when I have a much higher status in that faction than them, is beyond dumb.

CCP doesn't seem to care to much about standings, they keep making them more and more irrelevant then make it easier and easier to screw the next player over. Apparently they have never done the work required to have good standings and take it to be meaningless, this Is sad as I have said to see so much work mean so little to the people in charge. As I have said I wont continue to bother to care when they don't, and will just move on. Seriously I come back after finding standings with NPC corps is meaningless for jump clones then to find this out, its just sad, and where is the benefits they added with the negatives? Nonexistant

I laugh about being punished for pvp to a criminal, good luck explaining that to the rest of the gaming community.
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#22 - 2017-01-10 08:37:04 UTC
Sugar Smacks wrote:
While checking my standings on my other character I happened to notice last month at the end of December I took a massive hit to a NPC corp. I got literally a -75% for pod killing a flashing yellow criminal in hi sec.
Now I am not talking about sec status loss, it was unaffected as he was flashing yellow. But to the corp in question my standing went from 0 to -7.50 in 1 transaction due to this.

Has this ever happened to anyone else? Has anyone ever lost standing to NPC corps for killing players?



I feel you some one made the same comment and I looked at my standings and I was nearly shoot on site for some of the npc corps due to shooting flashy red people, ive spent the better part of 3 weeks running lvl 1s to keep form being sos and such just to lower some empire standings because they kept giving me anti empire storylines or multiple antiempire missions where I was running out of agents.

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Caldari State
#23 - 2017-01-10 08:41:34 UTC
Agondray wrote:
Sugar Smacks wrote:
While checking my standings on my other character I happened to notice last month at the end of December I took a massive hit to a NPC corp. I got literally a -75% for pod killing a flashing yellow criminal in hi sec.
Now I am not talking about sec status loss, it was unaffected as he was flashing yellow. But to the corp in question my standing went from 0 to -7.50 in 1 transaction due to this.

Has this ever happened to anyone else? Has anyone ever lost standing to NPC corps for killing players?



I feel you some one made the same comment and I looked at my standings and I was nearly shoot on site for some of the npc corps due to shooting flashy red people, ive spent the better part of 3 weeks running lvl 1s to keep form being sos and such just to lower some empire standings because they kept giving me anti empire storylines or multiple antiempire missions where I was running out of agents.


If a UPS driver breaks in your house and you shoot him dead, it is very legal.
The UPS company wont be able to retaliate by getting you cumulative negative standings either.

In EvE if you defend yourself from a criminal you are penalized.

It took until now to notice this was a problem?

Great programming, I don't think I will miss it on LoL.
Snuffed Out
#24 - 2017-01-10 09:55:40 UTC
personally i think you should be kicked from npc corps for major standing losses, force you to stop hiding under the protection of npc corps.

so basically you really just want to be able to shoot people but be protected at the same time?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Caldari State
#25 - 2017-01-10 09:59:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Sugar Smacks
Lan Wang wrote:
personally i think you should be kicked from npc corps for major standing losses, force you to stop hiding under the protection of npc corps.

so basically you really just want to be able to shoot people but be protected at the same time?


Because the alt I post on is in an NPC corp you assume my main character must also be in one.

Amusing.

You could take players in NPC corps entirely out of EvE and I don't think I would care.
In fact I would promote that solution entirely.
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2017-01-10 14:05:58 UTC
Sugar Smacks wrote:
Agondray wrote:
Sugar Smacks wrote:
While checking my standings on my other character I happened to notice last month at the end of December I took a massive hit to a NPC corp. I got literally a -75% for pod killing a flashing yellow criminal in hi sec.
Now I am not talking about sec status loss, it was unaffected as he was flashing yellow. But to the corp in question my standing went from 0 to -7.50 in 1 transaction due to this.

Has this ever happened to anyone else? Has anyone ever lost standing to NPC corps for killing players?



I feel you some one made the same comment and I looked at my standings and I was nearly shoot on site for some of the npc corps due to shooting flashy red people, ive spent the better part of 3 weeks running lvl 1s to keep form being sos and such just to lower some empire standings because they kept giving me anti empire storylines or multiple antiempire missions where I was running out of agents.


If a UPS driver breaks in your house and you shoot him dead, it is very legal.
The UPS company wont be able to retaliate by getting you cumulative negative standings either.

In EvE if you defend yourself from a criminal you are penalized.

It took until now to notice this was a problem?

Great programming, I don't think I will miss it on LoL.


Your current UPS example does not apply in all countries.

You also shot a flashy yellow and not a flashy red. This guy was not criminal but suspect.

The retaliation part is also irrelevant to real life as corporation in EVE have rights which does not exist in real life.
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#27 - 2017-01-10 14:59:50 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Sugar Smacks wrote:
Agondray wrote:
Sugar Smacks wrote:
While checking my standings on my other character I happened to notice last month at the end of December I took a massive hit to a NPC corp. I got literally a -75% for pod killing a flashing yellow criminal in hi sec.
Now I am not talking about sec status loss, it was unaffected as he was flashing yellow. But to the corp in question my standing went from 0 to -7.50 in 1 transaction due to this.

Has this ever happened to anyone else? Has anyone ever lost standing to NPC corps for killing players?



I feel you some one made the same comment and I looked at my standings and I was nearly shoot on site for some of the npc corps due to shooting flashy red people, ive spent the better part of 3 weeks running lvl 1s to keep form being sos and such just to lower some empire standings because they kept giving me anti empire storylines or multiple antiempire missions where I was running out of agents.


If a UPS driver breaks in your house and you shoot him dead, it is very legal.
The UPS company wont be able to retaliate by getting you cumulative negative standings either.

In EvE if you defend yourself from a criminal you are penalized.

It took until now to notice this was a problem?

Great programming, I don't think I will miss it on LoL.


Your current UPS example does not apply in all countries.

You also shot a flashy yellow and not a flashy red. This guy was not criminal but suspect.

The retaliation part is also irrelevant to real life as corporation in EVE have rights which does not exist in real life.


Well... I wasn't expecting my UPS driver analogy to be taken this far... but what the heck let's keep at it.

A suspect isn't a criminal (yet). In this case the UPS driver walked up to your house and started looking in the windows/checking under the mat for a key/checking doors to see if their unlocked. Is this suspicious? Yeah. He might be looking to rob you. Or he might be looking at where to stash the package he's supposed to drop off. Killing him for that is going to be on you.

Fact of the matter is UPS isn't going to be too pleased with you for killing their guy. I'm still not seeing standing loss as a problem.
Caldari State
#28 - 2017-01-10 15:29:29 UTC
In this analogy of the UPS driver the driver would not be flashy yellow, flashy yellow would indicate he commited a crime, like stealing. If he walks into my house and starts stealing and say I live in Texas and I shoot him dead, I committed no crime.

Now I know where you live this could be different but that's the point the law is different everywhere and a very large portion of the world would agree you have the right to "stand your ground". It is not like he is innocent we all agree he was not that, but to say others deserve some kind of retaliation because he commited a crime to begin with isn't logical or have any aspect of realism.

In my analogy the driver has commited a crime, but realistically his corporation has no way for retribution. Sure his company can complain to Concord, but to standing smash me for some retaliation later is dumb. I could see some interpretation if he was innocent but we all agree he wasn't.
CODE.
#29 - 2017-01-10 16:48:26 UTC
Sugar Smacks wrote:
If a UPS driver breaks in your house and you shoot him dead, it is very legal.

What third-world country was that again?
CODE.
#30 - 2017-01-10 16:50:09 UTC
Agondray wrote:
I feel you some one made the same comment and I looked at my standings and I was nearly shoot on site for some of the npc corps due to shooting flashy red people, ive spent the better part of 3 weeks running lvl 1s to keep form being sos and such just to lower some empire standings because they kept giving me anti empire storylines or multiple antiempire missions where I was running out of agents.

Well deserved. Why would you shoot red flashy people if they did nothing to you? It looks like you asked for this.
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#31 - 2017-01-10 16:57:36 UTC
Sugar Smacks wrote:
In this analogy of the UPS driver the driver would not be flashy yellow, flashy yellow would indicate he commited a crime, like stealing. If he walks into my house and starts stealing and say I live in Texas and I shoot him dead, I committed no crime.

Now I know where you live this could be different but that's the point the law is different everywhere and a very large portion of the world would agree you have the right to "stand your ground". It is not like he is innocent we all agree he was not that, but to say others deserve some kind of retaliation because he commited a crime to begin with isn't logical or have any aspect of realism.

In my analogy the driver has commited a crime, but realistically his corporation has no way for retribution. Sure his company can complain to Concord, but to standing smash me for some retaliation later is dumb. I could see some interpretation if he was innocent but we all agree he wasn't.



It's actually a fairly small portion of the world... but that's an aside.

But again... if a UPS driver was taking stuff off your porch and you shot him... UPS would probably still not like you much. They might even refuse to every deliver stuff to your house again.

This isn't about what's legal... you shooting a flashy yellow is "legal" in eve. It's about how the corp feels about you after you perform that action. It may be legal to say... punish a foreign woman in certain countries who's not wearing 'decent' attire. But if that woman is an executive for BP... BP might not react positively toward the entities punishing that woman. The standings would decrease.
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2017-01-10 17:08:12 UTC
Sugar Smacks wrote:
In this analogy of the UPS driver the driver would not be flashy yellow, flashy yellow would indicate he commited a crime, like stealing. If he walks into my house and starts stealing and say I live in Texas and I shoot him dead, I committed no crime.

Now I know where you live this could be different but that's the point the law is different everywhere and a very large portion of the world would agree you have the right to "stand your ground". It is not like he is innocent we all agree he was not that, but to say others deserve some kind of retaliation because he commited a crime to begin with isn't logical or have any aspect of realism.

In my analogy the driver has commited a crime, but realistically his corporation has no way for retribution. Sure his company can complain to Concord, but to standing smash me for some retaliation later is dumb. I could see some interpretation if he was innocent but we all agree he wasn't.


Flashy yellow can mean a lot of things but none of them are a criminal offense by EVE definition. Criminal action in EVE trigger flashed red. Remember, stealing loot in EVE does not make you a criminal. Many things can make you a suspect and none of them are crimes in EVE. The person you shot was not a criminal but a suspect.
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2017-01-10 18:29:14 UTC
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Lena Crews wrote:
Is it broken though?

I mean... how many deliveries would you have to do for UPS for them to forgive you for blowing up one of their trucks and killing the driver?

Might be right for that to take a ton of effort to repair that relationship.


A real world comparison to a game...

FYI, you'll get a standings loss for killing a DCM ship that attacks you. That is, a DCM player warps in and engages you, you respond and in self defense destroy his ship. Congratulations on your standings loss.


To keep up with the RL examples: a good number of soldiers hate the soldiers on the other side, even if both are in regulars armies. During WWI machine guns crews were often killed even when they surrendered, as they where hated by the infantry.
Even without the hate part, a member of an enemy army will fire on sight on you.

In EVE, if you are know to be an enemy of one faction, the members of that faction fire on you as soon as they can. It is only normal.

Considering the numbers of NPC corp members that I have "killed", it is only normal for them to fire on sight at me.


My point is that RL examples are kind of stupid in a video game.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

#34 - 2017-01-10 19:34:02 UTC
Sugar Smacks wrote:
Agondray wrote:
Sugar Smacks wrote:
While checking my standings on my other character I happened to notice last month at the end of December I took a massive hit to a NPC corp. I got literally a -75% for pod killing a flashing yellow criminal in hi sec.
Now I am not talking about sec status loss, it was unaffected as he was flashing yellow. But to the corp in question my standing went from 0 to -7.50 in 1 transaction due to this.

Has this ever happened to anyone else? Has anyone ever lost standing to NPC corps for killing players?



I feel you some one made the same comment and I looked at my standings and I was nearly shoot on site for some of the npc corps due to shooting flashy red people, ive spent the better part of 3 weeks running lvl 1s to keep form being sos and such just to lower some empire standings because they kept giving me anti empire storylines or multiple antiempire missions where I was running out of agents.


If a UPS driver breaks in your house and you shoot him dead, it is very legal.
The UPS company wont be able to retaliate by getting you cumulative negative standings either.

In EvE if you defend yourself from a criminal you are penalized.

It took until now to notice this was a problem?

Great programming, I don't think I will miss it on LoL.


To reiterate it: Flashy Yellow isn't a criminal, he is a suspect.
So let's change you example: if the UPS employee entered your porch to deliver a package and you shot him, claiming self defense on the basis of the "standing your ground" law, you can (maybe) avoid prison, but I suspect that UPS would place you in a "never deliver to this address" list.
#35 - 2017-01-10 19:38:33 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Lena Crews wrote:
Is it broken though?

I mean... how many deliveries would you have to do for UPS for them to forgive you for blowing up one of their trucks and killing the driver?

Might be right for that to take a ton of effort to repair that relationship.


A real world comparison to a game...

FYI, you'll get a standings loss for killing a DCM ship that attacks you. That is, a DCM player warps in and engages you, you respond and in self defense destroy his ship. Congratulations on your standings loss.


To keep up with the RL examples: a good number of soldiers hate the soldiers on the other side, even if both are in regulars armies. During WWI machine guns crews were often killed even when they surrendered, as they where hated by the infantry.
Even without the hate part, a member of an enemy army will fire on sight on you.

In EVE, if you are know to be an enemy of one faction, the members of that faction fire on you as soon as they can. It is only normal.

Considering the numbers of NPC corp members that I have "killed", it is only normal for them to fire on sight at me.


My point is that RL examples are kind of stupid in a video game.


But "no consequence for your acts" is even stupider.
#36 - 2017-01-11 06:38:21 UTC
Lena Crews wrote:
Is it broken though?

I mean... how many deliveries would you have to do for UPS for them to forgive you for blowing up one of their trucks and killing the driver?

Might be right for that to take a ton of effort to repair that relationship.


Real world =/= EVE Online.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Gallente Federation
#37 - 2017-01-11 09:30:57 UTC
Oh goodness, you've got remi involved....

At any rate, the SoE epic arc storyline had me head into Gillette space, went to the where the agent is supposedly located and she wasn't there (or I went to the wrong station. So then I take a look at my standings, seeing as how I read this thread a few days ago and sure enough my standings are low enough to be shoot in sight....

There has got to be a way to get our standings back up with certain factions to at least be neutral. Someone had posted that diplomacy is helpful with this. Should I also skill up the other PR skills as well?

If that is the case I'll have to wait on doing the rest of the epic arc storyline.....
Snuffed Out
#38 - 2017-01-11 09:36:12 UTC
Etain Darklightner Agittain wrote:
Oh goodness, you've got remi involved....

At any rate, the SoE epic arc storyline had me head into Gillette space, went to the where the agent is supposedly located and she wasn't there (or I went to the wrong station. So then I take a look at my standings, seeing as how I read this thread a few days ago and sure enough my standings are low enough to be shoot in sight....

There has got to be a way to get our standings back up with certain factions to at least be neutral. Someone had posted that diplomacy is helpful with this. Should I also skill up the other PR skills as well?

If that is the case I'll have to wait on doing the rest of the epic arc storyline.....


you cant be neutral to factions while also shooting them

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Tactical Supremacy
#39 - 2017-01-11 09:38:11 UTC
As a side note, we saw gankers blow up a freighter with all the toons in DCM, we did find that amusing... Twisted Sadly for you gankers most AG players kill gankers with their alts and not their main toons, but it is a smart move as always...

I don't mine in space where DCM operates so it has zero impact on me, just so you know...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

CODE.
#40 - 2017-01-11 09:49:52 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
As a side note, we saw gankers blow up a freighter with all the toons in DCM, we did find that amusing... Twisted Sadly for you gankers most AG players kill gankers with their alts and not their main toons, but it is a smart move as always...

I don't mine in space where DCM operates so it has zero impact on me, just so you know...

Does it actually reduce standing if the player is criminal? I did some very limited experiments with this on SISI and had the impression it has no effect if the character in question was criminal.

Well it will get interesting once the response fleet learns how to warp, which is if I am not mistaken in the pipeline in some form or another Big smile

Remi actually started a thread a while back about how stupid the situation with DCM is. But the carebear collective just ignored the speculations about how this could actually turn on them and told us to just HTFU and adapt.
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