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realistic isk from different professions
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Strrog
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2017-01-09 04:36:54 UTC
Dethmourne Silvermane wrote:
Strrog wrote:
Dethmourne Silvermane wrote:
FWIW, when I log into do wormhole sites, not counting the time to scan/etc (which is highly variable) I clock my C4 rattlesnake at about 200m isk/hr. You could do a bit better in C4s and a lot better in C5/C6 sites with the right fits; the major downside is of course the relative insecurity combined with the expense required of fitting the ship properly.

Rorqual mining is probably the best "no thinking" income right now without major training.


How does risk of a good WH comares to ratting in null these days? I remember i wanted to put an alt in a WH corp, but the story of a roaming gang killing off pos and a thanatos kinda made it feel meh :P


I'd say WH is much riskier.



How about a WH in deep blue teritory or its hard to do?
Ruvin
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2017-01-09 12:05:26 UTC
It's not hard, it's impossible. Wh dont have static path's the acces is random, everyday, and its a lot harder to live inside logistics and secure it

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
Hei Presto
Perkone
Caldari State
#23 - 2017-01-09 13:30:22 UTC
Ruvin wrote:
It's not hard, it's impossible. Wh dont have static path's the acces is random, everyday, and its a lot harder to live inside logistics and secure it


Maybe he means daytripping from sov-null?
Ruvin
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2017-01-09 18:32:41 UTC
well i replied to "WH in deep blue teritory"

which is due to how WH are conected, afaik "c4" were the reclusive ones but i think they got buffed with a 2 static conection.

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
James Zealot
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#25 - 2017-01-09 20:19:35 UTC
Rykker Bow wrote:
Station trading is my bread and butter for making isk and has been for the last 8 years or so. The majority of the first few years of gameplay was in the markets and during the last few years whenever I needed isk I did a few weeks of trading to replenish the wallet. When I'm in it full time trading, about 2-4 hours a day spread out over the entire day, my station trading income was 60-90 billion a month. If I'm sharing game time while pvp'ing I bring in about 30 billion a month. Amount of capital needed is about 30-40 billion for my trading plan and most times profits can easily be reinserted into more trading. The plan is pretty solid with a select few individuals in on it who've tested and still use it to this day.

Speculation is a good, very passive source of income. On game expansions 50-100 billion is what I go for. It does take a large amount of capital and you could need as much as 2 to 3 times your projected profit to earn that. Last expansion I used ~80b to make ~80b profits iirc.

Manufacturing. I've done it before on a large scale in conjunction with RAW23 and Varo Jan. With a three man team and 100 billion in infrastructure we reached over 100 billion a month in profits. It's hard to go into any kind of detail and not reveal sources and methods.

All the mmo's I've played I've been drawn to the money making side. Looking for the most effective methods of making is and then plain exploiting those methods to their fullest. Eve is the best game in that regard in both the dynamic of the player driven markets and the ability to spend those profits in character and item purchases.


I feel like in Jita, you have to be on that **** like white on rice man. Anyone can honestly sit there and do it, but it takes a special kind of person to sit and update orders like that. I tried it, but **** man lol. Jita is a damn beast!
Rykker Bow
Center for Advanced Studies
#26 - 2017-01-09 20:51:22 UTC
Lol, that's true. It can drive you insane if you let it. A few tricks I've figured out along the way is knowing which times you can leave orders alone even if they're not on top, knowing who else is trading my items - having them on a watch list and knowing the best times of the day to babysit the orders all to maximize profits really makes it easier.

That and I probably have a few screws loose as well Blink

The Mjolnir Bloc - Lowsec PvP for the sophisticated - The Mjolnir Bloc Killboards
Strrog
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2017-01-09 22:05:42 UTC
Rykker Bow wrote:
Lol, that's true. It can drive you insane if you let it. A few tricks I've figured out along the way is knowing which times you can leave orders alone even if they're not on top, knowing who else is trading my items - having them on a watch list and knowing the best times of the day to babysit the orders all to maximize profits really makes it easier.

That and I probably have a few screws loose as well Blink


OK tried some number crunching cant really pin point the turnover, as example 10 bill trading with 5% rotation of orders daily, is about 500 mill, but that means half of them are buy orders, so only like 250 m of actual sell orders and with margin of about 7-10% after fees , seem like about 10-20mill per hour. The funny part is how many hours of order camping will be needed to get that number though its kinda low, and how many hours will be needed to achieve higher turnover. Cuase if we look at some bit ticket items like plex or BS ships that will probably be camped to death, but if you have to stick now to module market where i am at 10 bill will cover the trading and after that you wont be able to actually turn bigger volume due to limited consumption. cause even super duper good mods only consumed few hundred a day only.

but maybe i am calculating it wrong :P
James Zealot
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#28 - 2017-01-09 22:07:17 UTC
Rykker Bow wrote:
Lol, that's true. It can drive you insane if you let it. A few tricks I've figured out along the way is knowing which times you can leave orders alone even if they're not on top, knowing who else is trading my items - having them on a watch list and knowing the best times of the day to babysit the orders all to maximize profits really makes it easier.

That and I probably have a few screws loose as well Blink


Don't get me wrong, it was NOT a knock at you :P I'm just saying man, CRAZY!
Almiel
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2017-01-09 22:32:21 UTC
Strrog wrote:
Rykker Bow wrote:
Lol, that's true. It can drive you insane if you let it. A few tricks I've figured out along the way is knowing which times you can leave orders alone even if they're not on top, knowing who else is trading my items - having them on a watch list and knowing the best times of the day to babysit the orders all to maximize profits really makes it easier.

That and I probably have a few screws loose as well Blink


OK tried some number crunching cant really pin point the turnover, as example 10 bill trading with 5% rotation of orders daily, is about 500 mill, but that means half of them are buy orders, so only like 250 m of actual sell orders and with margin of about 7-10% after fees , seem like about 10-20mill per hour. The funny part is how many hours of order camping will be needed to get that number though its kinda low, and how many hours will be needed to achieve higher turnover. Cuase if we look at some bit ticket items like plex or BS ships that will probably be camped to death, but if you have to stick now to module market where i am at 10 bill will cover the trading and after that you wont be able to actually turn bigger volume due to limited consumption. cause even super duper good mods only consumed few hundred a day only.

but maybe i am calculating it wrong :P



plex was always my number one item. Whenever I was going to be at the keyboard for any amount of time, I started and ended with plex. The trick is to make damn sure you don't have any left over at the end because you can get burned bad if you don't dump them fast.
James Zealot
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#30 - 2017-01-09 22:49:24 UTC  |  Edited by: James Zealot
Almiel wrote:
Strrog wrote:
Rykker Bow wrote:
Lol, that's true. It can drive you insane if you let it. A few tricks I've figured out along the way is knowing which times you can leave orders alone even if they're not on top, knowing who else is trading my items - having them on a watch list and knowing the best times of the day to babysit the orders all to maximize profits really makes it easier.

That and I probably have a few screws loose as well Blink


OK tried some number crunching cant really pin point the turnover, as example 10 bill trading with 5% rotation of orders daily, is about 500 mill, but that means half of them are buy orders, so only like 250 m of actual sell orders and with margin of about 7-10% after fees , seem like about 10-20mill per hour. The funny part is how many hours of order camping will be needed to get that number though its kinda low, and how many hours will be needed to achieve higher turnover. Cuase if we look at some bit ticket items like plex or BS ships that will probably be camped to death, but if you have to stick now to module market where i am at 10 bill will cover the trading and after that you wont be able to actually turn bigger volume due to limited consumption. cause even super duper good mods only consumed few hundred a day only.

but maybe i am calculating it wrong :P



plex was always my number one item. Whenever I was going to be at the keyboard for any amount of time, I started and ended with plex. The trick is to make damn sure you don't have any left over at the end because you can get burned bad if you don't dump them fast.


Were you making enough though? Most of the time returns are garbage after taxes are taken out. I'd imagine you probably have awesome standings though?

Okay, so you were obviously making enough if you kept doing it, but the return per PLEX has got to be pretty small right? So volume is key with it?
Strrog
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#31 - 2017-01-10 01:08:38 UTC
James Zealot wrote:
Almiel wrote:
Strrog wrote:
Rykker Bow wrote:
Lol, that's true. It can drive you insane if you let it. A few tricks I've figured out along the way is knowing which times you can leave orders alone even if they're not on top, knowing who else is trading my items - having them on a watch list and knowing the best times of the day to babysit the orders all to maximize profits really makes it easier.

That and I probably have a few screws loose as well Blink


OK tried some number crunching cant really pin point the turnover, as example 10 bill trading with 5% rotation of orders daily, is about 500 mill, but that means half of them are buy orders, so only like 250 m of actual sell orders and with margin of about 7-10% after fees , seem like about 10-20mill per hour. The funny part is how many hours of order camping will be needed to get that number though its kinda low, and how many hours will be needed to achieve higher turnover. Cuase if we look at some bit ticket items like plex or BS ships that will probably be camped to death, but if you have to stick now to module market where i am at 10 bill will cover the trading and after that you wont be able to actually turn bigger volume due to limited consumption. cause even super duper good mods only consumed few hundred a day only.

but maybe i am calculating it wrong :P



plex was always my number one item. Whenever I was going to be at the keyboard for any amount of time, I started and ended with plex. The trick is to make damn sure you don't have any left over at the end because you can get burned bad if you don't dump them fast.


Were you making enough though? Most of the time returns are garbage after taxes are taken out. I'd imagine you probably have awesome standings though?

Okay, so you were obviously making enough if you kept doing it, but the return per PLEX has got to be pretty small right? So volume is key with it?


Well elts look at plex pricing and is seems is sell for about 1.05 bill and buys are at arround .97 or 0.95 bill - 70-100 mill difference sale fees will be at arround 50 mill with that spread, so its about 50-20 mill profit per 1 plex. idk seems alright, but the netto % margin is like 2.5-5% which is a bit too tight for comfort , ugh idk
Almiel
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2017-01-10 01:09:06 UTC
James Zealot wrote:
Almiel wrote:
Strrog wrote:
Rykker Bow wrote:
Lol, that's true. It can drive you insane if you let it. A few tricks I've figured out along the way is knowing which times you can leave orders alone even if they're not on top, knowing who else is trading my items - having them on a watch list and knowing the best times of the day to babysit the orders all to maximize profits really makes it easier.

That and I probably have a few screws loose as well Blink


OK tried some number crunching cant really pin point the turnover, as example 10 bill trading with 5% rotation of orders daily, is about 500 mill, but that means half of them are buy orders, so only like 250 m of actual sell orders and with margin of about 7-10% after fees , seem like about 10-20mill per hour. The funny part is how many hours of order camping will be needed to get that number though its kinda low, and how many hours will be needed to achieve higher turnover. Cuase if we look at some bit ticket items like plex or BS ships that will probably be camped to death, but if you have to stick now to module market where i am at 10 bill will cover the trading and after that you wont be able to actually turn bigger volume due to limited consumption. cause even super duper good mods only consumed few hundred a day only.

but maybe i am calculating it wrong :P



plex was always my number one item. Whenever I was going to be at the keyboard for any amount of time, I started and ended with plex. The trick is to make damn sure you don't have any left over at the end because you can get burned bad if you don't dump them fast.


Were you making enough though? Most of the time returns are garbage after taxes are taken out. I'd imagine you probably have awesome standings though?

Okay, so you were obviously making enough if you kept doing it, but the return per PLEX has got to be pretty small right? So volume is key with it?


yeah, volume and extremely fast turnover was key. Sometimes I'd be making under half percent profit, but half percent on 900m is 4.5m each which isn't too shabby...lol. The fast turnover was key also. Orders could literally be filled within seconds...and sold seconds later. It's not unheard of to buy and sell 20-30 plex in 15 minutes. That's 90-135m profit right there on just one item. There'd be a lot of anxiety at the end of the night sometimes when i still had a dozen plex still unsold. Sometimes I'd log on the next day and see plex dropped anywhere from 10-50m. It can be brutal. Once you buy them I did everything I could to offload them.
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#33 - 2017-01-10 01:25:05 UTC
As an interregional reseller, I have nice turnovers to compensate losses and have fun while helping others in their various ventures. It's low risk and somewhat time intensive. But it gives a great feeling when you log in and suddenly see several chars with billions on the accounts after a Christmas break.

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
Strrog
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#34 - 2017-01-10 01:26:48 UTC
Almiel are you talking from Jita perspective on turnovers?

Just checked PLEX history seems very stable trade, but lol its hard to tell where most of those things are traded i have like 3-4 or more citadels with 1% tax in the area. Ugh i have a gut feeling all this trade spread gona **** someone off eventually and there will be massive citadel removals soon (tm). It was headache to figure out this stuff before the major hub split hehe, now its headache x few times :P.

What the sake of experiment i would try Jita but knowing there are few good bot programs available for trading i think i will pass :P.

its just ticking me off that there is less and less point in being producer even if you haul. Cause why go thru this head ache when lev 4s is way better and faster income :P.
Strrog
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#35 - 2017-01-10 01:29:08 UTC
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
As an interregional reseller, I have nice turnovers to compensate losses and have fun while helping others in their various ventures. It's low risk and somewhat time intensive. But it gives a great feeling when you log in and suddenly see several chars with billions on the accounts after a Christmas break.


Whats spread we talking here? I notice few times that markets kinda balance out on inter regional fairly fast, idk maybe just me but I consider myself a skeptic when it comes to regional trade :P.
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#36 - 2017-01-10 01:48:46 UTC
Strrog wrote:
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
As an interregional reseller, I have nice turnovers to compensate losses and have fun while helping others in their various ventures. It's low risk and somewhat time intensive. But it gives a great feeling when you log in and suddenly see several chars with billions on the accounts after a Christmas break.


Whats spread we talking here? I notice few times that markets kinda balance out on inter-regional fairly fast, idk maybe just me but I consider myself a skeptic when it comes to regional trade :P.


Spreads are 20% to 60%; depends on the region, wars, active competition, local production, etc. Also, as I told before in the Blueprint thread by CCP Greyscale; If you have enough leverage in a market and you know the 'time to market' for product volume in your portfolio, you can hedge your risks nicely in buy orders. When working the markets this way, you can minimize the risk over time and now and then amplify upward waves* that occur in products within your portfolio. When markets bounce back to normal, just let all listings in outer regions time out to create a new shortage. Stock up the leftovers for a future cycle.

*Upward waves can be promoted 2 ways;
- burn down buy order prices with stocks before you set up your hedge buys. The burning of buy orders can be done with stocks from previous hedges that were made back long ago.
- buyout complete regions of sell orders and/or hubs to relist all items on the future break point of the wave. In the graphs that VV showed in several forum threads, it is very obvious for products where they will occur.

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
Seer Profitus
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2017-01-10 05:40:25 UTC
I'm currently doing manufacturing making ~20M+ per manufacturing slot-day. I've been making over 1 billion per day in profit using Jita as my trade hub. I put about 3 billion capital into it every day. I created a spreadsheet that spits out a list of what to manufacture each day along with a bill of materials. My spreadsheet is far from finished. I have big plans for it.

May the market bless you and keep you;

May the market make its opportunities shine upon you and be profitable to you;

May the market lift up its margins upon you and grant you ISK.
Strrog
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#38 - 2017-01-10 05:51:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Strrog
Seer Profitus wrote:
I'm currently doing manufacturing making ~20M+ per manufacturing slot-day. I've been making over 1 billion per day in profit using Jita as my trade hub. I put about 3 billion capital into it every day. I created a spreadsheet that spits out a list of what to manufacture each day along with a bill of materials. My spreadsheet is far from finished. I have big plans for it.



are you selling the items yourself or dumping at buy orders? 20 mill per slot does not look too shabby

PS i assume no t2 stuff? cause cant que t2 bpcs
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#39 - 2017-01-10 06:14:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Mephiztopheleze
Dethmourne Silvermane wrote:
Rorqual mining is probably the best "no thinking" income right now without major training.


Have you seen the skill requirements for a Rorqual?

Dethmourne Silvermane wrote:
Strrog wrote:
Dethmourne Silvermane wrote:
FWIW, when I log into do wormhole sites, not counting the time to scan/etc (which is highly variable) I clock my C4 rattlesnake at about 200m isk/hr. You could do a bit better in C4s and a lot better in C5/C6 sites with the right fits; the major downside is of course the relative insecurity combined with the expense required of fitting the ship properly.

Rorqual mining is probably the best "no thinking" income right now without major training.


How does risk of a good WH comares to ratting in null these days? I remember i wanted to put an alt in a WH corp, but the story of a roaming gang killing off pos and a thanatos kinda made it feel meh :P


I'd say WH is much riskier.


Solo PvE in wormhole space is very risky and you pay a very high price in 'Exploration Tax'.
That said, wormhole space with friends, know-how and infrastructure can be the amongst safest places possible to undock in New Eden.

edit: running C5 sites in rattlesnakes can earn me around ISK250m/hour/character solo triple-boxing. In a fleet with friends, we can earn more due to completing sites faster and tackling Drifters to minimise our Exploration Taxes.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Strrog
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#40 - 2017-01-10 06:22:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Strrog
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
Dethmourne Silvermane wrote:
Rorqual mining is probably the best "no thinking" income right now without major training.


Have you seen the skill requirements for a Rorqual?

Dethmourne Silvermane wrote:
Strrog wrote:
Dethmourne Silvermane wrote:
FWIW, when I log into do wormhole sites, not counting the time to scan/etc (which is highly variable) I clock my C4 rattlesnake at about 200m isk/hr. You could do a bit better in C4s and a lot better in C5/C6 sites with the right fits; the major downside is of course the relative insecurity combined with the expense required of fitting the ship properly.

Rorqual mining is probably the best "no thinking" income right now without major training.


How does risk of a good WH comares to ratting in null these days? I remember i wanted to put an alt in a WH corp, but the story of a roaming gang killing off pos and a thanatos kinda made it feel meh :P


I'd say WH is much riskier.


Solo PvE in wormhole space is very risky and you pay a very high price in 'Exploration Tax'.
That said, wormhole space with friends, know-how and infrastructure can be the amongst safest places possible to undock in New Eden.

edit: running C5 sites in rattlesnakes can earn me around ISK250m/hour/character solo triple-boxing. In a fleet with friends, we can earn more due to completing sites faster and tackling Drifters to minimise our Exploration Taxes.



Ye seen some WH corps, its jsut i am not quite sure if its isk focus direction or PVP, cause it takes scanning time to find the bloody thing, so maybe as an alt direction might be a good idea, still pondering
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