EVE General Discussion

Back when I studied abnormal psychology the professor used to say "Don't worry about the people who are depressed on a cold rainy day. Worry about the ones who are always the same no matter what is going on around them".

I get to wondering sometimes about the effects of Ritalin. ADHD, and SSRI drugs given to kids, more and more of which grow up to play Eve.

So perhaps there is reason to be concerned for someone who has everything they own in a freighter and loses it and does not bat an eye. All those high-loss ganks were with players who were so space rich they didn't care.

Good thing ship scanners cannot detect whether a player can handle it or not - but background research on gankees might indicate the chance of fishing for such players for the extra tears.

This is what you said, so by implication any one that gets upset is immature, so is not an adult and so implication is a man-child so worthy of only contempt.

Eve is different to many games in that losses do matter, which is why there is more emotional capital in the game, it is not like other games where you get born again with all your stuff as if nothing happened, so you have a stake in it, this is what makes it appealing to so many, but it also creates emotional capital. I don't know what planet you are on in terms of what you said but showing emotion on losing something that cost them time and effort to get is entirely reasonable and not a sign of immaturity, just as getting a high on blowing someone up in a game is not a sign of immaturity.

We have go gloriously off topic as per the norm but in reality it was just to show you that throwing out such wild accusations is immature intellectually, but I am not calling you immature as such, just suggesting that you up your forum game.

That is what you wrote, either you meant it or you did not, words are clear, you express your opinion on this forum like many, and we often say things in the heat of the moment, I just proved to you that what said here is incorrect by giving the example of tennis players breaking their rackets at bad line calls. What I cannot say is what went through your mind when posting it, I suspect that you wanted to call all people who get upset at being blown up and by definition those you define as carebears as immature and their views as being immature, but only you know that.

I find this name calling rather tiresome, I also had a big laugh at Malcanis who thought he was being smart but really did not cover himself in glory with that type of post, I linked his post to a number of people who thought he was a complete idiot for that post, seriosuly funny to be honest.

This stuff about "emotionally stable people don't mind being griefed" is just crazy.

Griefing is all about wasting someone's time. Annoyane due to being griefed is due to two very normal human responses:

• Annoyance at the time that has been wasted
• The common, but perhaps not 100% logical, annoyance that someone has done something negative to you, and you've been unable to respond

If people were logical, the second one wouldn't exist, but nobody can honestly claim it's not there in the majority of people.

Reversing it (from the griefers' perspective rather than the victim's), we find something that's much less common, and when it's out in the open, people generally disapprove of it. Normal people do not respect those who deliberately annoy others "just to see their reaction". Normal people disapprove of both those who do it, and those who encourage them because they're entertained by the process. Oddly, behavior that's not acceptable between strangers can be acceptable and considered amusing between friends. More proof that people aren't always logical.

Of course there are people who claim (in this very forum) that the majority of experienced EVE players belong to one of those two groups (the toxic minority who directly annoy others for their personal amusement, and their hangers on, who enjoy watching). If this is the case, but you'd like EVE to grow, it's time to consider the consequences of your actions.

The smart move would be to stop griefing and stop supporting it as normal behavior for a while, until enough new players join the game that you can afford to treat them as consumable resources for a while.
And a couple of reminders:

• I was "forced" to make a post earlier that (reasonably) accurately describes the kinds of non-consensual PvP that are an integral part of the game, and that any player should accept as "good behavior in EVE". Scroll back if you need to read it.
• ISK loss is a common way to estimate time wasted. If it wasn't, loss value it wouldn't be so carefully monitored in Battle Reports and the like
• Due to the really large differences in income, a rich player can put e.g. 10 minutes of their average income at risk to destroy e.g. 10 grinding-hours of a newer/poorer player's time. For me, this asymmetry makes rich griefers deliberately hunting new players the worst of a bad bunch. Regrettably it's not a rare category of EVE player, but it should be.

Good post, I don't actually have an issue with people griefing others in what I call a hang tough game, but I wish people who post are honest about it and stop this puerile name calling.

Ah ok. Sorry, my mistake.

I thought you were quoting someone when you put it in quotation marks.

I think this post has it all...

Here is how to reverse grief someone, such as Aaarg who pod kills in and around the Niarja pipe, he is very dedicated and will say GF when you pop him, most of the AG lads see him as good fun to play against myself included.

So this is not against Aaarg as such, but to give people an example of how to play Eve.

Lets say I want to move ships from Sirppala to Amarr, all I do is use a toon that can fly those ships, put him in a blank clone and then set his med clone to the Sirppla station, then move the ship to Amarr as you wish put then AP in your pod back back and Aaarg is doing you a service and wasting ISK in popping you. This is how to play Eve.

One big reason that EVE is struggling with new blood, and it is something that will drive off new players. This that the mechanics of the game allow others to force their idea of how the game should be played on other players.

As we all know the game is structured with three levels of risk based on the region of space you are in, and this basically covers the players desire to PVP. In low and null the player is basically willing to accept PVP at any moment, high sec basically means you want to focus on PVE activities. Now High sec does have mechanics to allow for PVP, even non-consensual PVP, through faction wars, and war declarations. You may have an Indy corp that doesn't PVP and their characters don't have the skills to PVP effectively get dec'd by a PVP corp, it sucks for them but it is part of the game and there are mechanics to avoid or deal with it.

Suicide ganking miners and haulers in high sec or extorting ISK from them is allowing other players to dictate how those miners and haulers play. Especially when the cost to the gankers is so extremely low. A few million for a desty suicide ganker vs. 18 mill just for the hull of a mining barge, let alone an exhumer or freighter. No other game allows one customer to completely dictate how another customer plays the game, and this is why EVE struggles to attract and retain new blood.

If I spend the money, time, and effort to train to fly a Hulk or Mackinaw and then get the ISK to buy and fit the ship and stay in high sec why should someone in a few million ISK desty be able to destroy my efforts in under 30 seconds? At least make them have the expense of a war dec, and if I undock in my shiny new Hulk under a war dec shame on me. So what if I want to semi-afk mine while studying for an exam or working on something like laundry? Especially if it allows me to buy a bunch of ships to go roaming low sec looking for trouble later.

Rubbish!

This is true, in re-reading the thread it was Dracvlad who first introduced the word immature. And it was an inference based on what Scipio wrote. When Scipio repudiates this and writes, "No I don't think that." Dracvlad and Salvos have spent post after post going, "No, you of course think that way!"

It is funny how Scipio points out what he considers the core of his view point on this andit is discounted totally, but all weight is put on an earlier off the cuff comment. People who do that are dogmatic a--holes who are pushing an agenda. To then hear them talk about wanting to have a "discussion" just makes them hypocrites or liars.