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I gave it a shot, but not enjoying it after all..My feed back

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Caldari State
#21 - 2017-01-05 11:16:41 UTC
An early filter is good only if it's accurate.

IMO EVE selects reasonably effectively, but excludes far too many genuine prospects.

My personal impression is that much attention is paid to the "New Player Experience", but that it's unwisely limited to the first 30-odd days of play.

A player is "new" until they are economically self-sufficient, and feel comfortable with where they are going - meaning they have the knowledge and experience to make a realistic plan, and be confident they can achieve it. 30 days is enough for some, but in general, it takes far too long in EVE to get to that point.

IMO this could be fixed relatively cheaply. The current "NPE" and Career Agent Missions work (mosty) ok, and don't need to be extended to provide a longer period of structured play. But entry into many of the possible activities in EVE, especially those that generate income, needs to be "smoothed out".
Bullets Bombs and Blondes
#22 - 2017-01-05 11:34:52 UTC
Velisity Ellecon wrote:
I finally gave this game a good try. The tutorial was awesome but i'm so far behind that it's going to take me years to catch up to other people. I also feel like the tutorial didn't cover enough. When it was over, I was left not knowing what to do. I ran some missions then got to a point where I couldn't get any where with out upgrading my ship. So I bought a new one only to find out I still couldn't do the missions. I didn't know where to go from there. I asked general help and was told to buy another ship but I had no idea what they were talking about. It's annoying.

I had no idea how to join with a clan or guild or whatever it's called in this game. Researching takes way too long and I'm not paying for a game that I'm completely confused about, I thought it was a free to play but it's a "free to try" then pay for everything to make it fun.

Just some feed back if the devs are interested in why I'm quitting.

Thank you,
Velisity



o7, Happy trails
Sad ...and then depression sets in

Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never. Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.

Gallente Federation
#23 - 2017-01-05 11:42:10 UTC
To actually "get EvE" is not something you can teach, it's something you have to manage on your own. This requires the right mind set and the patience and imagination to look for. All the scripted stuff can teach you some basic mechanics, but not what EvE actually is about, and maybe is even a distraction, because it gives the false illusion of similarities to other games ... I fell for this as well in the beginning and took me about 6 month to "enlightment".

I'm my own NPC alt.

#24 - 2017-01-05 13:28:25 UTC
Velisity Ellecon wrote:
Researching takes way too long and I'm not paying for a game that I'm completely confused about


Your short attention span is the enemy, not the game.
Solitaire.
#25 - 2017-01-05 13:30:21 UTC
gnshadowninja wrote:
I can't understand why people say they cant 'catch up', afew years back this was the case but since then we have seen the introduction of remaps, boosters, skill injectors and i've seen new players under a year old bypass my skill points and ive been playing over ten years.

Hopefully you will stick to it and join a newbie friendly corp such as Horde or Eve Uni and they will be able to help you and give you a role to play in Eve.


It's because they just halfed the learning speed. Alphas are training slower than old accounts did before they got rid of training skills.
Trial accounts had normal training speed and access to all racial ships. There was no reason to remove the ability to fly what you want when the old trial gave you a chance to get into whatever you wanted and have training speed to be able to actually get skills done in order to try things out. The current alpha clones are a massive step backward from old trial accounts in an actual trial regard. You can try anything and it takes forever to do what you can. Even if you only had 2 weeks before you got more done in 2 weeks than you'll be able to accomplish in 2 months as an alpha until ccp fixes the training speed issue. You can't learn to play if you're locked out everything ans just waiting for one skill to train that takes 2 times as long to finish for no good reason.

Any alpha clone is going to be exponentially behind current players because one has can train much faster in multiple areas.
Making a new npe won't fix player retention if there's a paywall right after it which is how it is now. And that's not even taking implants into account. Which makes the exponential gap over time even wider. Alphas might as well be back at 10 for all attributes and omegas are up in the high 20s low 30s on average. People dont remember just how bad it was back when there were learning skills and we all started out with crap attributes unless you were an achura.
The double speed training for omegas is an outright lie by ccp. It's the normal training speed and they shafted all the truly new players who are worse off than they were as trial accounts even if they dont know it. They'll never catch up.
#26 - 2017-01-05 13:52:39 UTC
I'd be ok with CCP removing the half training speed limit from Alphas, and giving them full speed.

They'll just see faster progress through the few ships they have access to, and then hit the limits earlier and be persuaded to subscribe earlier.
Ivy League
#27 - 2017-01-05 13:57:28 UTC
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:
gnshadowninja wrote:
I can't understand why people say they cant 'catch up', afew years back this was the case but since then we have seen the introduction of remaps, boosters, skill injectors and i've seen new players under a year old bypass my skill points and ive been playing over ten years.

Hopefully you will stick to it and join a newbie friendly corp such as Horde or Eve Uni and they will be able to help you and give you a role to play in Eve.


It's because they just halfed the learning speed. Alphas are training slower than old accounts did before they got rid of training skills.
Trial accounts had normal training speed and access to all racial ships. There was no reason to remove the ability to fly what you want when the old trial gave you a chance to get into whatever you wanted and have training speed to be able to actually get skills done in order to try things out. The current alpha clones are a massive step backward from old trial accounts in an actual trial regard. You can try anything and it takes forever to do what you can. Even if you only had 2 weeks before you got more done in 2 weeks than you'll be able to accomplish in 2 months as an alpha until ccp fixes the training speed issue. You can't learn to play if you're locked out everything ans just waiting for one skill to train that takes 2 times as long to finish for no good reason.

Any alpha clone is going to be exponentially behind current players because one has can train much faster in multiple areas.
Making a new npe won't fix player retention if there's a paywall right after it which is how it is now. And that's not even taking implants into account. Which makes the exponential gap over time even wider. Alphas might as well be back at 10 for all attributes and omegas are up in the high 20s low 30s on average. People dont remember just how bad it was back when there were learning skills and we all started out with crap attributes unless you were an achura.
The double speed training for omegas is an outright lie by ccp. It's the normal training speed and they shafted all the truly new players who are worse off than they were as trial accounts even if they dont know it. They'll never catch up.


Did you forget that alpha clones are also locked to ~5m SP? Even if they did increase alpha training time. Alphas will always he limited in comparison to Omega. The only difference is that they will run into that wall after a few months instead of the 6+ months or so now.

Yes for some people they can jump right in. Find a good Corp etc etc in very short order. But others take longer. I spent years without a Corp because it always took me a while to find a group of people I wanted to fly with. Often I would come back for a month. Maybe two. And then leave because I didn't want to keep paying for the game just to look for a Corp. (And wasn't having fun without one)

The reduced training time and the SP limit work together to allow an alpha plenty of time as a free player to get settled in while still preventing alphas from being abused as free alts.
#28 - 2017-01-05 14:34:00 UTC
I have to say the OP's complaints are completely valid. Even the things that don't match with reality, the complaint is still completely valid. Usually it's not the specific roadblocks that rookies hit that ruin the game, it's that the communication in the game is terrible. Devs killed their own documentation because "doing your job as a dev is hard." Devs develop tools that further entrench nullblobs rather than tools that make the game engaging (a social game where EVERY tool to find a corp or even a fleet or social group is just more terrible than the last, and the worst advice being the most common "just join one of these huge corps where you'll be a faceless nobody".) A UI that's so broken the game feels like it resents you for attempting to play it. The OP talks about where the fundamental communication tools broke down, but the truth is, some parts of the core game are straight up bad.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

ChaosTheory.
#29 - 2017-01-05 15:44:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Velisity Ellecon wrote:
I finally gave this game a good try. The tutorial was awesome but i'm so far behind that it's going to take me years to catch up to other people.


I identified the 1st part of your problem as soon as I read that. EVE is not like other MMOs it's not about 'catching up'. You can compete (if you are smart and willing to innovate a little) from the 1st week.

Other MMOs have 'levles' because they know that people have a bad psychological reaction when they feel like they are 'behind' other people. EVE doesn't do that, EVE is a game for people who don't CARE where they are relative to other people (for the most part).




Quote:

I also feel like the tutorial didn't cover enough. When it was over, I was left not knowing what to do. I ran some missions then got to a point where I couldn't get any where with out upgrading my ship. So I bought a new one only to find out I still couldn't do the missions. I didn't know where to go from there. I asked general help and was told to buy another ship but I had no idea what they were talking about. It's annoying.


This is problem number 2. EVE is a game for people who LIKE not knowing what to do and use that to drive their exploration of the game. Other MMOs kind of do this for you, or make it to where you don't feel too lost. EVe WANTS you to feel lost.

Quote:

I had no idea how to join with a clan or guild or whatever it's called in this game. Researching takes way too long and I'm not paying for a game that I'm completely confused about, I thought it was a free to play but it's a "free to try" then pay for everything to make it fun.

Just some feed back if the devs are interested in why I'm quitting.

Thank you,
Velisity


The highlighted part is problem number 3 for you, EVE takes patience. I've been playing 9 and a half years and I STILL don't know some things (I learned just last year that ctrl + shift + click delocks a target......) People are still coming up with new ways to fly ship, kill other ships and do PVE in ever faster/more profitable ways, even in an almost 14 year old game.



Some regulars around here get mad at me when I say this stuff, but I don't say it to be mean, I say it because it's the truth as I see it. EVE Online is a game that caters to certain character traits ,among them patience, challenge seeking (ie seeing things as challenges instead of seeing them as obstacles), the willingness to both compete and cooperate at the appropriate times, and the ability to defer gratification.

Your post suggests you lack , in some measure or another, the requisite traits needed to enjoy EVE. In other words, EVE just isn't for you. There is nothing wrong with that, it's not crime, my own cousin (whom I grew up with like a brother and who is also a gamer) hates EVE and loves League of Legends (which I hate). Everyone is different.
ChaosTheory.
#30 - 2017-01-05 15:46:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Alpha Baba wrote:
EVE is only good for a particular type of people. That's why this "alpha" thing won't help it so much.



And this is the shorter and much more direct version of what it took me half a page to say Big smile

I feel the same way about Alphas. If you aren't (one of) the type(s) that would like something like EVE, making it free won't help either. No amount of Free would make me like that Icelandic fermented Shark dish lol.
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2017-01-05 16:00:39 UTC
You need to find someone to team up with. A good alpha corporation. Or you are just to sane to play.

Insane.

Haighare Pirates
#32 - 2017-01-05 16:25:02 UTC
Velisity Ellecon wrote:
Researching takes way too long and I'm not paying for a game that I'm completely confused about, I thought it was a free to play but it's a "free to try" then pay for everything to make it fun.


Funny you should say that. Because even if you started out playing as a paying account, for the genuine EVE experience, you would still have to play the long game while your skill develop in real time. EVE is not as much as game but a hobby that you put time into, either in-game or out of it.

If you thought that you could get established in EVE in the four odd days that you played since you got out of the tutorial, then you really picked the wrong MMO to play in.

May I suggest you try FFXIV? It might suit your instant gratification urges and it is an actual game I like to play myself.
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2017-01-05 16:30:49 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Alpha Baba wrote:
EVE is only good for a particular type of people. That's why this "alpha" thing won't help it so much.



And this is the shorter and much more direct version of what it took me half a page to say Big smile

I feel the same way about Alphas. If you aren't (one of) the type(s) that would like something like EVE, making it free won't help either. No amount of Free would make me like that Icelandic fermented Shark dish lol.


The publicity and raw number of new trial might draw in some new blood but it will indeed not be a great source. The available player base seem to have been tapped by now.
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2017-01-05 17:02:49 UTC
EVE is what "you" make it. Try reading this short but EXCELLENT newbro guide.

It has tons of information. https://www.thealphasguide.com/
Caldari State
#35 - 2017-01-05 17:59:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Trasch Taranogas
Darth Kendari wrote:
EVE is what "you" make it. Try reading this short but EXCELLENT newbro guide.

It has tons of information. https://www.thealphasguide.com/



I read that too in the beginning, its excellent.

Here is another great one that I have read several times:

Eve Online Exploration Guide.

The main reason you dont like this game is fear.

I had it, still have it a bit.

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.

Caldari State
#36 - 2017-01-05 18:16:16 UTC
he won't be back. I can feel it .
Caldari State
#37 - 2017-01-05 19:22:58 UTC
There have been many eloquent explanations of why the OP is not suited to the game. It's missing the point.

OP is gone. Might there be information here that would allow CCP to make the game better, especially more likely to attract and retain new players?

I think so.

I see no such useful information in the victim-blaming. It's very well developed of course - but then again established players have been selling this negative vision for a very long time.
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2017-01-05 20:09:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Kendari
Hakawai wrote:
There have been many eloquent explanations of why the OP is not suited to the game. It's missing the point.

OP is gone. Might there be information here that would allow CCP to make the game better, especially more likely to attract and retain new players?

I think so.

I see no such useful information in the victim-blaming. It's very well developed of course - but then again established players have been selling this negative vision for a very long time.


The game not being "better" is not the reason the OP left and to imply that seems to miss the point. It is clear by "OP" posts that he had not done the minimum in finding what gameplay was suited for him if any.

People not using easily found resources like https://www.thealphasguide.com/ or http://www.toptiertactics.com/21341/eve-online-exploration-guide-billions-and-billions-of-isk/#axzz3UC5pyC10 is not the fault of CCP.

In the end EVE was not, is not and will never be the type of game like WOW that attracts the top numbers of players of all MMO's. Attracting more players is what they are trying to do while maintaining EVE's foundation in the process. If players come here expecting EVE to adapt to them vs the other way around they should leave and that "IS" ok.
ChaosTheory.
#39 - 2017-01-05 20:20:21 UTC
Hakawai wrote:
There have been many eloquent explanations of why the OP is not suited to the game. It's missing the point.

OP is gone. Might there be information here that would allow CCP to make the game better, especially more likely to attract and retain new players?

I think so.

I see no such useful information in the victim-blaming. It's very well developed of course - but then again established players have been selling this negative vision for a very long time.


How does a person not liking a video game make that person a "Victim" of something? If that's the case I need to sue Blizzard, because WoW victimized me years ago...

Every time I read the word "make the game better" I think "better for who". EVE is fine for people who like what it has to offer, and some dude who played for 4 days isn't going to tell CCP anything they don't know about their game that they started developing 17-18 years ago.
#40 - 2017-01-05 20:33:44 UTC
Darth Kendari wrote:
Hakawai wrote:
There have been many eloquent explanations of why the OP is not suited to the game. It's missing the point.

OP is gone. Might there be information here that would allow CCP to make the game better, especially more likely to attract and retain new players?

I think so.

I see no such useful information in the victim-blaming. It's very well developed of course - but then again established players have been selling this negative vision for a very long time.


The game not being "better" is not the reason the OP left and to imply that seems to miss the point. It is clear by "OP" posts that he had not done the minimum in finding what gameplay was suited for him if any.

People not using easily found resources like https://www.thealphasguide.com/ or http://www.toptiertactics.com/21341/eve-online-exploration-guide-billions-and-billions-of-isk/#axzz3UC5pyC10 is not the fault of CCP.

In the end EVE was not, is not and will never be the type of game like WOW that attracts the top numbers of players of all MMO's. Attracting more players is what they are trying to do while maintaining EVE's foundation in the process. If players come here expecting EVE to adapt to them vs the other way around they should leave and that "IS" ok.

I disagree. I'd bet if I hadn't gotten into a player corp quickly, and if we hadn't been wardecced within the first few weeks, I probably wouldn't have stuck around for 8 years. And the fact that there are statistics on what makes a player stick around says EXACTLY that it's not just about the type of player, but the experience the player has. The problem here is that EVE's success is pretty much just a matter of luck. The devs get lucky if a player randomly stumbles on the things that make them stick around. There are no tools that drive players to the valued experiences, and that's a failure on CCP's part. Does the UI have to be bad for people to like EVE? Hell. No. Does the most important information to play have to be buried in order for people to enjoy EVE? Hell. No.

And this is where EVE players are so toxic. Just because YOU happened to stumble randomly onto the parts of EVE that are fun, does not make you a special butterfly. The fact that you play a video game (a VIDEO GAME!) is not a reason for self esteem, and does not make you better than anyone else. And the fact that you got lucky in finding the good stuff doesn't mean the game doesn't need development to the player engagement hooks to have a hope of longevity.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

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